Doepfer

Hello !!
I'm interested in the interaction between "A-100" and the Theremin, while l listen to 
"The Art of the THEREMIN" by Clara ROCKMORE and "Music from the Ether" by Lydia 
Kavina .So could you please give me advice on my interest ?
1. What' s the actually the difference between the "Theremin systems" of the A-100 
System Suggestions and the instruments of the Theremins such as "Etherwave Pro" and 
"Etherwave Theremin" by MOOG music ? How about sounds ? How about functions ?
2. Could I manufacture my original Theremin through the"Theremins systems" of the A-
100 ? What kind the modules do they consist then ? If I could do so, might I play the 
original Theremin in front of my own "Theremin system" of the A-100 ? Is it really odd ?
3. By the way, does not only the Theremin but also the Analogue Modular Synthesizer 
come from the same mechanisms ? Why did Bob MOOG respect Levy Sergeyevich 
TERMEN and the Theremin profoundly ? Meanwhile I understand the Universe itself 
consists of the cosmic oscillators and it is also the musical substance by itself. ciao !!

Hi

> 1. What' s the actually the difference between the "Theremin systems" of the A-100 
> System Suggestions and the instruments of the Theremins such as "Etherwave Pro" and 
> "Etherwave Theremin" by MOOG music ? How about sounds ? How about functions ?
I have two A-178 Atennas and have some minor experience on an original 
Moog Theremin. The main difference is, that the A-100 Theremin modules 
allow adjustments on the surface, which can be quite tricky. 
Misadjustment can make the antennas quite unplayable. An original 
Theremin is adjusted as it is and works.

For not experienced players it can be easier to use not standard VCOs 
with exponential Voltage/Frequency relation, but more linear relation. I 
use a VCA which controls the amount of the theremin output voltage and 
is controlled itself by the inverted theremin output voltage. The 
adjustment of this patch is also quite tricky, but it helps for playing.


> 2. Could I manufacture my original Theremin through the"Theremins systems" of the A-
> 100 ? 
Basically yes.

> What kind the modules do they consist then ? 
two A-178 antennas, one A-110 VCO, one A-130 VCA

If you want the above mentioned "linearizing" trick you additionally 
need a second VCA A-130 (or A-138b plus A-132) and an inverter A-175.

> If I could do so, might I play the 
> original Theremin in front of my own "Theremin system" of the A-100 ? Is it really odd ?
? I don't understand that sentence.

> 3. By the way, does not only the Theremin but also the Analogue Modular Synthesizer 
> come from the same mechanisms ? 
No. In real Theremins the antennas are part of the oscillator or 
amplifier. Modular systems strictly separate the functions.

> Why did Bob MOOG respect Levy Sergeyevich 
> TERMEN and the Theremin profoundly ? 
Because Robert Moog had the heart of a Musician not of an Engineer.

> Meanwhile I understand the Universe itself 
> consists of the cosmic oscillators and it is also the musical substance by itself. ciao !!
I can recommend to read Karl-Heinz Stockhausens: "Texte zur 
elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik", who presents a similar, very 
interesting theory. (Texte zur elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik. 
Ed. Dieter Schnebel. Cologne: Editor M. DuMont Schauberg, 1963. Vol. 1 
of Texte zur Musik. 10 vols. to date. 1963- .)

Florian

It's worth noting the most important difference between the A100
theremin system and a Moog Etherwave--the Moog, awesome as it is, has
essentially one sound--a sine wave.  With the theremin controller, you
can in theory use it to control any sound the modular can make, and
the modular can make a hell of a lot of sounds.

I don't have the theremin module, though--Florian, how do you like it
in terms of responsiveness?  How susceptible is it to interference?

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander
<Florian.Anwander@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> 
> > 1. What' s the actually the difference between the "Theremin
systems" of the A-100 
> > System Suggestions and the instruments of the Theremins such as
"Etherwave Pro" and 
> > "Etherwave Theremin" by MOOG music ? How about sounds ? How about
functions ?
> I have two A-178 Atennas and have some minor experience on an original 
> Moog Theremin. The main difference is, that the A-100 Theremin modules 
> allow adjustments on the surface, which can be quite tricky. 
> Misadjustment can make the antennas quite unplayable. An original 
> Theremin is adjusted as it is and works.
> 
> For not experienced players it can be easier to use not standard VCOs 
> with exponential Voltage/Frequency relation, but more linear
relation. I 
> use a VCA which controls the amount of the theremin output voltage and 
> is controlled itself by the inverted theremin output voltage. The 
> adjustment of this patch is also quite tricky, but it helps for playing.
> 
> 
> > 2. Could I manufacture my original Theremin through the"Theremins
systems" of the A-
> > 100 ? 
> Basically yes.
> 
> > What kind the modules do they consist then ? 
> two A-178 antennas, one A-110 VCO, one A-130 VCA
> 
> If you want the above mentioned "linearizing" trick you additionally 
> need a second VCA A-130 (or A-138b plus A-132) and an inverter A-175.
> 
> > If I could do so, might I play the 
> > original Theremin in front of my own "Theremin system" of the
A-100 ? Is it really odd ?
> ? I don't understand that sentence.
> 
> > 3. By the way, does not only the Theremin but also the Analogue
Modular Synthesizer 
> > come from the same mechanisms ? 
> No. In real Theremins the antennas are part of the oscillator or 
> amplifier. Modular systems strictly separate the functions.
> 
> > Why did Bob MOOG respect Levy Sergeyevich 
> > TERMEN and the Theremin profoundly ? 
> Because Robert Moog had the heart of a Musician not of an Engineer.
> 
> > Meanwhile I understand the Universe itself 
> > consists of the cosmic oscillators and it is also the musical
substance by itself. ciao !!

> I can recommend to read Karl-Heinz Stockhausens: "Texte zur 
> elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik", who presents a similar, very 
> interesting theory. (Texte zur elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik. 
> Ed. Dieter Schnebel. Cologne: Editor M. DuMont Schauberg, 1963. Vol. 1 
> of Texte zur Musik. 10 vols. to date. 1963- .)
> 
> Florian
>

Hi

> It's worth noting the most important difference between the A100
> theremin system and a Moog Etherwave--the Moog, awesome as it is, has
> essentially one sound--a sine wave.  With the theremin controller, you
> can in theory use it to control any sound the modular can make, and
> the modular can make a hell of a lot of sounds.
Good remark!

> I don't have the theremin module, though--Florian, how do you like it
> in terms of responsiveness? 
For me as a not trained person it is quite difficult to play a theremin 
at all. The responsiveness is kind of exponential - big changes when 
narrow (e.g 2 octaves at the last 5 centimeters); smaller changes at a 
wider distance (one octave from 30 cm to 5 cm).
It does not matter whether it is a Doepfer A-178 or a Moog or what ever. 
A Theremin is difficult to play; thats why I suggested a kind of CV 
compression for the output voltage of the module.

> How susceptible is it to interference?
This is stunningly no problem. I used a portable a-100 theremin system 
for a live performance, walking through the streets. Had no problems at all.

The performance can be seen here: 
http://www.weltklang-music.de/html/body_langenacht2004.html

There are some pics also of the system I used:
http://fa.utfs.org/diy/a100/

Florian

Hello, Florian !!

This is credo99muro from Japan.

Thank you for your advice.

1. I'm sorry for my poor explanation. You know the Theremins such as "Etherwave Pro" 
and "Etherwave Theremin" are the instruments. 
Meanwhile the "Theremin systems" of A-100 are one of the Analogue Modular 
Synthesizers. The former is available for a player and the latter is  available for a 
progmmer. So I wonder as if a musician  would naturally play the "Theremin systems" of 
A-100 on this occasion at concert....
> If I could do so, might I play the original Theremin in front of my own 
> "Theremin system" of the A-100 ? Is it really odd ?
>  I don't understand that sentence.

2. The "linearizing" trick is interesting, Could you please explain me what and how it is in 
concrete ?
> it can be easier to use not standard VCOs with exponential 
> Voltage/Frequency relation, but more linear relation.
> If you want the above mentioned "linearizing" trick you additionally need a  > second 
VCA A-130 (or A-138b plus A-132) and an inverter A-175.

3. Does the Theremin consist of VCO, VCF and VCA like an Analogue Modular 
Synthesizer, too ?
> No. In real Theremins the antennas are part of the oscillator or
> amplifier. Modular systems strictly separate the functions.

4. I appreciate you recommended me Karl-Heinz Stockhausens: "Texte zur
elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik. I'm looking forward to reading it. I'm also 
interested in the interaction between philosophy and music. I studied philosophy in 
Japanese, English and German at Keio University. But I forget German now. I will try to 
learn it again.
> I can recommend to read Karl-Heinz Stockhausens: "Texte zur
> elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik", who presents a similar, 
>  interesting theory. 

5. Whichi did you refer to, the Theremins such as "Etherwave Pro" and "Etherwave 
Theremin" or the "Theremin systems" of A-100 ?
> For me as a not trained person it is quite difficult to play a theremin
> at all. The responsiveness is kind of exponential - big changes when
> narrow (e.g 2 octaves at the last 5 centimeters); smaller changes at a
> wider distance (one octave from 30 cm to 5 cm).
> It does not matter whether it is a Doepfer A-178 or a Moog or what ever.
> A Theremin is difficult to play; thats why I suggested a kind of CV
> compression for the output voltage of the module.

6. May I listen to your music of the "Theremin systems" of A-100 ?
> The performance can be seen here:
> http://www.weltklang-music.de/html/body_langenacht2004.html
> There are some pics also of the system I used:
> http://fa.utfs.org/diy/a100/

ciao !!

Hello, travesty14850 !!

This is credo99muro from Japan.

Thank you for your advice.

Would you please explain me what and how the theory is ? May I listen to your sounds 
and show your "Therein systems" of A-100, too ?
> It's worth noting the most important difference between the A100
> theremin system and a Moog Etherwave--the Moog, awesome as it is, has
> essentially one sound--a sine wave. With the theremin controller, you
> can in theory use it to control any sound the modular can make, and
> the modular can make a hell of a lot of sounds.

ciao !!

Hi credo!

I'm no expert here--I'm new to modular synthesis, my Doepfer system is
very small, and I don't have the theremin controller.  I do have the
ribbon though--similar sounds are possible.

Forgive me if I'm explaining too much here, but I'm not sure how
well-versed you are in this stuff.  The Moog theremin isn't a
synthesizer--it generates one kind of wave, a sine, and there's no
filter or any other sound-shaping circuit.  You can think of it as
being more like a trumpet or violin--it's expressive in the hands of
an experienced player, but makes only one very distinctive sound.

Unless I'm missing something here, the Doepfer theremin controller
merely allows you to create cv to control parts of a synthesizer
patch.  It can take the place of, say, a keyboard, in this respect. 
But the Doepfer modular is a SYNTHESIZER--the whole point is being
able to get a huge range of sounds.  You choose your waveforms, shape
them, send them through filters, modulate them, combine them with
other sounds.  This is why it costs a lot more than an Etherwave--it
does more.  It's a different beast entirely.  The theremin controller
merely allows you to CONTROL your sounds the way you would control
sounds on a theremin.  And furthermore, you needn't use the antenna
merely for pitch--you could assign it to other things, I assume...LFO
speed, PWM, filter cutoff, whatever.

John

>
> Hello, travesty14850 !!
> 
> This is credo99muro from Japan.
> 
> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> Would you please explain me what and how the theory is ? May I
listen to your sounds 

> and show your "Therein systems" of A-100, too ?
> > It's worth noting the most important difference between the A100
> > theremin system and a Moog Etherwave--the Moog, awesome as it is, has
> > essentially one sound--a sine wave. With the theremin controller, you
> > can in theory use it to control any sound the modular can make, and
> > the modular can make a hell of a lot of sounds.
> 
> ciao !!
>

Hi


> 1. I'm sorry for my poor explanation. You know the Theremins such as "Etherwave Pro" 
> and "Etherwave Theremin" are the instruments. 
> Meanwhile the "Theremin systems" of A-100 are one of the Analogue Modular 
> Synthesizers. The former is available for a player and the latter is  available for a 
> progmmer. So I wonder as if a musician  would naturally play the "Theremin systems" of 
> A-100 on this occasion at concert....
I think, most player musicians will prefer the Etherwave type theremins.

> 2. The "linearizing" trick is interesting, Could you please explain me what and how it is in 
> concrete ?
The principle is quite simple:

                     +---Invertert --------\
                     |                      \
Theremin-CV-out ----+----------------->lin-VCA------>to VCO

At low theremin output voltages the VCA will let through the control 
voltage without big change. the higher the theremin output voltage 
becomes, the less the VCA will let through this Voltage to the VCO. So 
this is basically a compressor for Controlvoltages.


It requires a new A-130 as VCA. Theremin CV connected to Audio in1 (!), 
Audio Out connected to VCO, The InverterOutput connected to CV2. The 
Gain should be turned full clockwise. The position of the CV2 
potentiometer determines how strong the "compression" becomes.


> 3. Does the Theremin consist of VCO, VCF and VCA like an Analogue Modular 
> Synthesizer, too ?
In the original Theremin there is an Oscillator and an Amplifier. No 
Filter. The original Theremin isn't voltage controlled at all.

> 4. I appreciate you recommended me Karl-Heinz Stockhausens: "Texte zur
> elektronischen und instrumentalen Musik. I'm looking forward to reading it. I'm also 
> interested in the interaction between philosophy and music. I studied philosophy in 
> Japanese, English and German at Keio University. But I forget German now. I will try to 
> learn it again.
I think, The Stockhaus texts should be available in english too. 
(Nevertheless: German is a beautyful language ;-)).


> 5. Whichi did you refer to, the Theremins such as "Etherwave Pro" and "Etherwave 
> Theremin" or the "Theremin systems" of A-100 ?
Both. It is - sorry - fucking difficult to play an Etherwave theremin as 
it is difficult to play an A-100 based theremin.

> 6. May I listen to your music of the "Theremin systems" of A-100 ?
Sorry, but there are no recordings from this event. Also this event 
wasn't "music" in an traditional sense but more some kind of a wandering 
sound cluster. Between the participants there was interaction, but not 
of an harmonic musical type.

Florian