Doepfer

I'm wanting to patch together my first vocoder and require the
opinions of those more experienced than I.
	
...I've posted a pic of the layout within the photo album named:
"a100 module suggestion andsettings pics"

...the title for the pic is:
"Will This Vocoder Patch Work? HELP"

Unfortunately the pic resolution is not ideal so I can e-mail the pic
to anyone willing to help.

...The pic assumes that all of the bands are connected as well as the
High & Low Pass filters.

my email is as follows:
khobby@gmail.com

Thanks!!!

that patch should work fine.
if you want you can add a vca after the mixer and conrol
it with the gate output or envelope output of the first a119.
or you can add one of the vocoder patch suggestions from the
same folder where you have uploaded the picture.

best wishes

ingo


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Hobby" <khobby@...> wrote:
>
> I'm wanting to patch together my first vocoder and require the
> opinions of those more experienced than I.
> 	
> ...I've posted a pic of the layout within the photo album named:
> "a100 module suggestion andsettings pics"
> 
> ...the title for the pic is:
> "Will This Vocoder Patch Work? HELP"
> 
> Unfortunately the pic resolution is not ideal so I can e-mail the 
pic
> to anyone willing to help.
> 
> ...The pic assumes that all of the bands are connected as well as 
the

> High & Low Pass filters.
> 
> my email is as follows:
> khobby@...
> 
> Thanks!!!
>

> that patch should work fine.
> if you want you can add a vca after the mixer and conrol
> it with the gate output or envelope output of the first a119.
> or you can add one of the vocoder patch suggestions from the
> same folder where you have uploaded the picture.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo

Welcome back, Ingo.

Dieter Doepfer

> that patch should work fine.
> if you want you can add a vca after the mixer and conrol
> it with the gate output or envelope output of the first a119.
> or you can add one of the vocoder patch suggestions from the
> same folder where you have uploaded the picture.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo

...Thanks ingo,

...I have another question I noticed that Doepfer has a Frequency
Shifter (A-126), with which the component harmonics of a sound are
shifted not by an equal musical interval, but by the same frequency.

...I'm wondering if there is a simple way to apply transposition (in
which all of the components of an voice audio signal are raised or
lowered by an equal interval)...That way one could conceivably
transpose the audio signal  (up or down in frequency) coming from a
microphone before running the signal into the A-129/1 VOCODER ANALYSIS
SECTION then adjust each band filter coming from the A-129\1 by the
same amount in the opposite direction...

...If one were to continue this process, progressively transposing the
speech signal before the A-129/1 and adjusting each band from the
A-129/1 in the opposite direction in order to compensate, on two,
three or more A-129/1's then connecting each A-129/1 to a respective
A-129/2 and contemplating the patch for each with the same Voiced
Input and then combine all of the Vocoder Outputs together...They
could increase the resolution of the vocoder (the amount of band
filters) to what ever number they desired.

...am I wrong?

> ...Thanks ingo,
> 
> ...I have another question I noticed that Doepfer has a Frequency
> Shifter (A-126), with which the component harmonics of a sound are
> shifted not by an equal musical interval, but by the same 
frequency.
> 
> ...I'm wondering if there is a simple way to apply transposition 
(in
> which all of the components of an voice audio signal are raised or
> lowered by an equal interval)...That way one could conceivably
> transpose the audio signal  (up or down in frequency) coming from a
> microphone before running the signal into the A-129/1 VOCODER 
ANALYSIS
> SECTION then adjust each band filter coming from the A-129\1 by the
> same amount in the opposite direction...
> 
> ...If one were to continue this process, progressively transposing 
the
> speech signal before the A-129/1 and adjusting each band from the
> A-129/1 in the opposite direction in order to compensate, on two,
> three or more A-129/1's then connecting each A-129/1 to a 
respective
> A-129/2 and contemplating the patch for each with the same Voiced
> Input and then combine all of the Vocoder Outputs together...They
> could increase the resolution of the vocoder (the amount of band
> filters) to what ever number they desired.
> 
> ...am I wrong?
>


i would say that you're wrong, but i'm not sure
that i have understood you correctly.

one thing is especially important.
in a vocoder the possible frequency content of the vocoded signal 
depends on the filter configuration of the synthesis section.
the analysis section a129/1 is only analysing the input signal
and the synthesis section is producing the audible vocoded signal.
the vocoded signal is the mixed output of all filters in the
synthesis section. these filters have fixed frequencies and a
fixed bandwidth, no matter how the input signal looks like,
no matter how the analysis section looks like, the vocoder can
only output a signal at these frequencies.
consequently the only way to increase the resolution of a
vocoder is to increase the amount of filters in all sections.
then also the filters would need to be steeper in order to
increase the resolution effectively.

best wishes

ingo

Hi all,
About vocoder and pre-process, what gear do you use for basic vocal
signal ? What microphone do you like best ? Do you use comp, EQ,
enhancer ?
I have tried both dynamic vocal mic and large diaphragm static mic and
I kinda prefer the dyn one... I also do light compression but maybe
that's better to use the 129-3 for "dynamic" process (I don't have it
yet, soon...).
If you have some tricks for fat vocoder sounds, please share it !
Cheers,
Max.

>For a minimum of satisfying results you need a very 
> extensive prprocessing of the voicesignal for the usage as carrier.
> 
> In the digital realm the complete task can be done much more impressive 
> (see Rolands VP9000 or Melodyne from Celemony).
> 
> Florian

Hi Kevin

> ...I'm wondering if there is a simple way to apply transposition (in
> which all of the components of an voice audio signal are raised or
> lowered by an equal interval)
This definition corresponds simply to a pitch transposer or Harmonizer. 
But I think, you want something else...:



...That way one could conceivably
> transpose the audio signal  (up or down in frequency) coming from a
> microphone before running the signal into the A-129/1 VOCODER ANALYSIS
> SECTION then adjust each band filter coming from the A-129\1 by the
> same amount in the opposite direction...
> 
> ...If one were to continue this process, progressively transposing the
> speech signal before the A-129/1 and adjusting each band from the
> A-129/1 in the opposite direction in order to compensate, on two,
> three or more A-129/1's then connecting each A-129/1 to a respective
> A-129/2 and contemplating the patch for each with the same Voiced
> Input and then combine all of the Vocoder Outputs together...They
> could increase the resolution of the vocoder (the amount of band
> filters) to what ever number they desired.
> 
> ...am I wrong?
...you want to transpose the base frequency of the voice up, but you 
want to avoid the mickey mouse effect. Yes thats possible, and it can be 
done with a vocoder basically as you describe: transpose the woice with 
an pitch transposer up, and then patch the analysis to synthesis section 
shifted one or two bands down. Basically it works, but it still sounds 
very vocoderish. For a minimum of satisfying results you need a very 
extensive prprocessing of the voicesignal for the usage as carrier.

In the digital realm the complete task can be done much more impressive 
(see Rolands VP9000 or Melodyne from Celemony).

Florian

Hi Maxime

> Hi all,
> About vocoder and pre-process, what gear do you use for basic vocal
> signal ? What microphone do you like best ? Do you use comp, EQ,
> enhancer ?
The best you can afford.

I personally only have a Crown PZM mic which costed in the late 80ies 
around 800 DM, which is now around 500 Euros. If I could afford I'd use 
a Schoeps small diaphragm condensor microphone. Of course you need a pop 
killer (you can use the nylon stockings of your girlfriend too).

As preamp I have a TLA Ivory series or the inputstage of my Yamaha 
console (refitted with metalfilm resistors); some years ago I used the 
input stage of a ADT 5M console. Compressor now is also a TLA, in the 
earlier years I used a Urei 1178. I made also astonishing results with 
an Alesis smashup (this is a real unknown gem - costs around 30 Euros on 
ebay!) After the compressor I insert a noisegate (ashley) which is 
controlled in the sidechain by the pre compressor signal. I use at least 
two EQs: one after the compressor, which raises mids for the analysis 
section, and one in the sidechain signal of the noisegate to make the 
open/close events of the gate more controllable. Also I use a highpass 
at 60 HZ before the compressor. If the vocal signal should be also the 
carrier, I'd also add de-esser, and I'd use a different EQing for the 
carrier signal than for the analysis signal.

I usually do not(!) use a voiced unvoiced detector (Dieter won't like to 
hear it). I prefer to add high frequencies from the original signal to 
the synthesized signal. I would not use the highpass out of the 129-1 
(the cutofffrequency is too low), but would use a A-123 and set it to 
somewhere in the range of 10kHz to 14kHz.


A very good testing signal is a classic news broadcast show on FM radio, 
like BBC or similar. There you will hear usually perfect voice sound.

Florian

> I usually do not(!) use a voiced unvoiced detector (Dieter won't like to
hear it).

You are wrong :-)

I use the voiced/unvoiced detector barely - if at all (unlike the attenuator
and offset generator A-129-3 in combination with the slew limiter controller
A-129-4 which I use a lot). But we added this module to complete the vocoder
sub-system. To speak the truth there are some modules in the A-100 I never
use (or at least very rarely) but we released them just because the
customers have been asking for.

Dieter