Yahoo Groups archive

Doepfer

Index last updated: 2026-04-29 00:15 UTC

Thread

Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-03 by Maxime

Hi list, hi Dieter,
I had this idea about a module I would love to have, maybe it already
exists, let me know if it does.
So, when mixing and designing sounds, I find myself using more and
more Middle/Side matrix for working on stereo. I thought of a module
that would be simple, cheap, very narrow (it could probably fit in 4
HP) and would make a great tool for generating and processing stereo
field.

It would consist of 4 inputs and 4 outputs with basic arithmetic
operations on audio signal.
So first there's a Left(mono)and Right input, the Right input is
normalled to the Left input so that if you don't insert anything in
the Right input, you have the same signal than in the Left one (mono
sound).
Then there is a Middle and a Side output. The maths behind that is 
M = L + R
S = L - R
Once you got those outputs, you can process the side and leave the
middle as it is, for example, add spring reverb on the side only or
put a triangle wave on the middle and the multiplied triangle wave on
the side to get a fat wide stereo sound.

Then you need a way to send the sound to a mixer or recorder that
works in the L R way. For this the M S to L R is intended !
So there's a M input and a S input, you stick your processed sound
into these and the module converts it back to L R and outputs a signal
that you can use with your mixer or recorder.

So it's very simple, 
L (mono) and R inputs
M and S outputs
processing
M and S inputs
L and R outputs -> mixer/recorder
It could be done with a combination of existing modules (inverters and
VCAs or planned 138e) but that would be wide and expensive...

You can use it with a dual VCA if you want to place your sound in the
stereo field, this way you can choose the amount of sound you want in
the center and at the sides.

What do you think of it ?

Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-07 by Maxime

Hey,
It seems my message got lost in the many messages about the (great)
patch matrix module...
Any feedback about this module idea ? Anybody interested in it ?

I think I'll try to DIY it if I'm the only MS freak in the modular world.




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime" <francois.maxime@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi list, hi Dieter,
> I had this idea about a module I would love to have, maybe it already
> exists, let me know if it does.
> So, when mixing and designing sounds, I find myself using more and
> more Middle/Side matrix for working on stereo. I thought of a module
> that would be simple, cheap, very narrow (it could probably fit in 4
> HP) and would make a great tool for generating and processing stereo
> field.
> 
> It would consist of 4 inputs and 4 outputs with basic arithmetic
> operations on audio signal.
> So first there's a Left(mono)and Right input, the Right input is
> normalled to the Left input so that if you don't insert anything in
> the Right input, you have the same signal than in the Left one (mono
> sound).
> Then there is a Middle and a Side output. The maths behind that is 
> M = L + R
> S = L - R
> Once you got those outputs, you can process the side and leave the
> middle as it is, for example, add spring reverb on the side only or
> put a triangle wave on the middle and the multiplied triangle wave on
> the side to get a fat wide stereo sound.
> 
> Then you need a way to send the sound to a mixer or recorder that
> works in the L R way. For this the M S to L R is intended !
> So there's a M input and a S input, you stick your processed sound
> into these and the module converts it back to L R and outputs a signal
> that you can use with your mixer or recorder.
> 
> So it's very simple, 
> L (mono) and R inputs
> M and S outputs
> processing
> M and S inputs
> L and R outputs -> mixer/recorder
> It could be done with a combination of existing modules (inverters and
> VCAs or planned 138e) but that would be wide and expensive...
> 
> You can use it with a dual VCA if you want to place your sound in the
> stereo field, this way you can choose the amount of sound you want in
> the center and at the sides.
> 
> What do you think of it ?
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-07 by neil jendon

Jensen transformers has a schematic for a passive M-S to LR circuit using two transformers. It's on their website. Google it; I'm too lazy to type an url right now.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-07 by Silas Johansen

I like the idea, but I'm not sure I would like something like that in
a module - I would probably prefer a stand alone unit so I could use
it independently of the modular - and preferably with line-level
signals.

Also, I'm not sure whether this would sell - I think it would be
geared more towards sound engineers than synthesists. Or at least when
I think of the possibilities this would give me I think more as a
sound engineer than a synthesist...

Cheers,
Silas
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Feb 7, 2008 11:39 PM, Maxime <francois.maxime@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey,
>  It seems my message got lost in the many messages about the (great)
>  patch matrix module...
>  Any feedback about this module idea ? Anybody interested in it ?
>
>  I think I'll try to DIY it if I'm the only MS freak in the modular world.
>
>
>
>  --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime" <francois.maxime@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > Hi list, hi Dieter,
>  > I had this idea about a module I would love to have, maybe it already
>  > exists, let me know if it does.
>  > So, when mixing and designing sounds, I find myself using more and
>  > more Middle/Side matrix for working on stereo. I thought of a module
>  > that would be simple, cheap, very narrow (it could probably fit in 4
>  > HP) and would make a great tool for generating and processing stereo
>  > field.
>  >
>  > It would consist of 4 inputs and 4 outputs with basic arithmetic
>  > operations on audio signal.
>  > So first there's a Left(mono)and Right input, the Right input is
>  > normalled to the Left input so that if you don't insert anything in
>  > the Right input, you have the same signal than in the Left one (mono
>  > sound).
>  > Then there is a Middle and a Side output. The maths behind that is
>  > M = L + R
>  > S = L - R
>  > Once you got those outputs, you can process the side and leave the
>  > middle as it is, for example, add spring reverb on the side only or
>  > put a triangle wave on the middle and the multiplied triangle wave on
>  > the side to get a fat wide stereo sound.
>  >
>  > Then you need a way to send the sound to a mixer or recorder that
>  > works in the L R way. For this the M S to L R is intended !
>  > So there's a M input and a S input, you stick your processed sound
>  > into these and the module converts it back to L R and outputs a signal
>  > that you can use with your mixer or recorder.
>  >
>  > So it's very simple,
>  > L (mono) and R inputs
>  > M and S outputs
>  > processing
>  > M and S inputs
>  > L and R outputs -> mixer/recorder
>  > It could be done with a combination of existing modules (inverters and
>  > VCAs or planned 138e) but that would be wide and expensive...
>  >
>  > You can use it with a dual VCA if you want to place your sound in the
>  > stereo field, this way you can choose the amount of sound you want in
>  > the center and at the sides.
>  >
>  > What do you think of it ?
>  >
>
>

Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-08 by p. hendricks

On 2/7/08 3:50 PM, "Silas Johansen" <sijodk@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like the idea, but I'm not sure I would like something like that in
> a module - I would probably prefer a stand alone unit so I could use
> it independently of the modular - and preferably with line-level
> signals.

check out the JoeMeek mc2
http://joemeek.com/mc2.html

you get some of that, plus a pretty useful compressor.
Still, after using the MC2--I would love a module like the one suggested,
would be great to have CV for the "Width"

-phil

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-08 by hardware@doepfer.de

Francois,

such a module would not take too much development time as it is very simple.
But I personally would not see the need for such module. All functions can
be realized e.g. with the A-138c or the soon available A-138e.

But if there is sufficient inquiry we could offer such a module.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag von Maxime
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 23:40
> An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R
>
>
> Hey,
> It seems my message got lost in the many messages about the (great)
> patch matrix module...
> Any feedback about this module idea ? Anybody interested in it ?
>
> I think I'll try to DIY it if I'm the only MS freak in the modular world.
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime" <francois.maxime@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi list, hi Dieter,
> > I had this idea about a module I would love to have, maybe it already
> > exists, let me know if it does.
> > So, when mixing and designing sounds, I find myself using more and
> > more Middle/Side matrix for working on stereo. I thought of a module
> > that would be simple, cheap, very narrow (it could probably fit in 4
> > HP) and would make a great tool for generating and processing stereo
> > field.
> >
> > It would consist of 4 inputs and 4 outputs with basic arithmetic
> > operations on audio signal.
> > So first there's a Left(mono)and Right input, the Right input is
> > normalled to the Left input so that if you don't insert anything in
> > the Right input, you have the same signal than in the Left one (mono
> > sound).
> > Then there is a Middle and a Side output. The maths behind that is
> > M = L + R
> > S = L - R
> > Once you got those outputs, you can process the side and leave the
> > middle as it is, for example, add spring reverb on the side only or
> > put a triangle wave on the middle and the multiplied triangle wave on
> > the side to get a fat wide stereo sound.
> >
> > Then you need a way to send the sound to a mixer or recorder that
> > works in the L R way. For this the M S to L R is intended !
> > So there's a M input and a S input, you stick your processed sound
> > into these and the module converts it back to L R and outputs a signal
> > that you can use with your mixer or recorder.
> >
> > So it's very simple,
> > L (mono) and R inputs
> > M and S outputs
> > processing
> > M and S inputs
> > L and R outputs -> mixer/recorder
> > It could be done with a combination of existing modules (inverters and
> > VCAs or planned 138e) but that would be wide and expensive...
> >
> > You can use it with a dual VCA if you want to place your sound in the
> > stereo field, this way you can choose the amount of sound you want in
> > the center and at the sides.
> >
> > What do you think of it ?
> >
>
>
>

Re: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-09 by Bakis Sirros

hello Francois,

ok, if i have to make a poll, i'll make one.
but, please, tell me the exact module description the
poll should have.

best regards,
Bakis.


--- hardware@doepfer.de wrote:

> Francois,
> 
> such a module would not take too much development
> time as it is very simple.
> But I personally would not see the need for such
> module. All functions can
> be realized e.g. with the A-138c or the soon
> available A-138e.
> 
> But if there is sufficient inquiry we could offer
> such a module.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> > -----Urspr?he Nachricht-----
> > Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag
> von Maxime
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 23:40
> > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to
> M-S to L-R
> >
> >
> > Hey,
> > It seems my message got lost in the many messages
> about the (great)
> > patch matrix module...
> > Any feedback about this module idea ? Anybody
> interested in it ?
> >
> > I think I'll try to DIY it if I'm the only MS
> freak in the modular world.
> >
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime"
> <francois.maxime@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi list, hi Dieter,
> > > I had this idea about a module I would love to
> have, maybe it already
> > > exists, let me know if it does.
> > > So, when mixing and designing sounds, I find
> myself using more and
> > > more Middle/Side matrix for working on stereo. I
> thought of a module
> > > that would be simple, cheap, very narrow (it
> could probably fit in 4
> > > HP) and would make a great tool for generating
> and processing stereo
> > > field.
> > >
> > > It would consist of 4 inputs and 4 outputs with
> basic arithmetic
> > > operations on audio signal.
> > > So first there's a Left(mono)and Right input,
> the Right input is
> > > normalled to the Left input so that if you don't
> insert anything in
> > > the Right input, you have the same signal than
> in the Left one (mono
> > > sound).
> > > Then there is a Middle and a Side output. The
> maths behind that is
> > > M = L + R
> > > S = L - R
> > > Once you got those outputs, you can process the
> side and leave the
> > > middle as it is, for example, add spring reverb
> on the side only or
> > > put a triangle wave on the middle and the
> multiplied triangle wave on
> > > the side to get a fat wide stereo sound.
> > >
> > > Then you need a way to send the sound to a mixer
> or recorder that
> > > works in the L R way. For this the M S to L R is
> intended !
> > > So there's a M input and a S input, you stick
> your processed sound
> > > into these and the module converts it back to L
> R and outputs a signal
> > > that you can use with your mixer or recorder.
> > >
> > > So it's very simple,
> > > L (mono) and R inputs
> > > M and S outputs
> > > processing
> > > M and S inputs
> > > L and R outputs -> mixer/recorder
> > > It could be done with a combination of existing
> modules (inverters and
> > > VCAs or planned 138e) but that would be wide and
> expensive...
> > >
> > > You can use it with a dual VCA if you want to
> place your sound in the
> > > stereo field, this way you can choose the amount
> of sound you want in
> > > the center and at the sides.
> > >
> > > What do you think of it ?
> > >
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-09 by Maxime

Thanks guys for your answers.

The way I would describe the module is :
2 ways LR / MS matrix with 
* Left (mono) and Right inputs to Middle and Side outputs
* Middle and Side inputs to Left and Right outputs
That would probably fit in a 4HP module and be cheap.

@Phil : I'd like a simple matrix I can use both ways and don't need
the compressor...

@Silas : Yes that sounds more like a sound engineer module than a
synthesist module but that's a very simple way to give a new life to a
lot of sound process modules and at the moment, the only way I can
make live and coherent stereo with my modular is to pan one source
left and the other right or to track 2 times the same pattern...

@Dieter : I understand that there's no point in designing and
manufacturing module that won't sell, even if it is easy to design.
Would you mind help the few people like me who would like to have such
a module DIY, like you did for the power amplifier (to use CV with
lights or motors) ? That would be very kind of you.

@Neil Jendon : Thanks, I found it on Jensen website, but that's for
balanced mic signals and the circuit uses transformers, I'd rather use
IC even if that's the best for audio quality, that's a synth module,
not a high end pristine mastering piece of gear =)

Thanks a lot for paying intention to my idea !

Max.



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
<synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
> hello Francois,
> 
> ok, if i have to make a poll, i'll make one.
> but, please, tell me the exact module description the
> poll should have.
> 
> best regards,
> Bakis.
> 
> 
> --- hardware@... wrote:
> 
> > Francois,
> > 
> > such a module would not take too much development
> > time as it is very simple.
> > But I personally would not see the need for such
> > module. All functions can
> > be realized e.g. with the A-138c or the soon
> > available A-138e.
> > 
> > But if there is sufficient inquiry we could offer
> > such a module.
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > Dieter Doepfer
> > 
> > > -----Urspr?he Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]Im Auftrag
> > von Maxime
> > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2008 23:40
> > > An: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> > > Betreff: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to
> > M-S to L-R
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey,
> > > It seems my message got lost in the many messages
> > about the (great)
> > > patch matrix module...
> > > Any feedback about this module idea ? Anybody
> > interested in it ?
> > >
> > > I think I'll try to DIY it if I'm the only MS
> > freak in the modular world.
> > >
> > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Maxime"
> > <francois.maxime@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi list, hi Dieter,
> > > > I had this idea about a module I would love to
> > have, maybe it already
> > > > exists, let me know if it does.
> > > > So, when mixing and designing sounds, I find
> > myself using more and
> > > > more Middle/Side matrix for working on stereo. I
> > thought of a module
> > > > that would be simple, cheap, very narrow (it
> > could probably fit in 4
> > > > HP) and would make a great tool for generating
> > and processing stereo
> > > > field.
> > > >
> > > > It would consist of 4 inputs and 4 outputs with
> > basic arithmetic
> > > > operations on audio signal.
> > > > So first there's a Left(mono)and Right input,
> > the Right input is
> > > > normalled to the Left input so that if you don't
> > insert anything in
> > > > the Right input, you have the same signal than
> > in the Left one (mono
> > > > sound).
> > > > Then there is a Middle and a Side output. The
> > maths behind that is
> > > > M = L + R
> > > > S = L - R
> > > > Once you got those outputs, you can process the
> > side and leave the
> > > > middle as it is, for example, add spring reverb
> > on the side only or
> > > > put a triangle wave on the middle and the
> > multiplied triangle wave on
> > > > the side to get a fat wide stereo sound.
> > > >
> > > > Then you need a way to send the sound to a mixer
> > or recorder that
> > > > works in the L R way. For this the M S to L R is
> > intended !
> > > > So there's a M input and a S input, you stick
> > your processed sound
> > > > into these and the module converts it back to L
> > R and outputs a signal
> > > > that you can use with your mixer or recorder.
> > > >
> > > > So it's very simple,
> > > > L (mono) and R inputs
> > > > M and S outputs
> > > > processing
> > > > M and S inputs
> > > > L and R outputs -> mixer/recorder
> > > > It could be done with a combination of existing
> > modules (inverters and
> > > > VCAs or planned 138e) but that would be wide and
> > expensive...
> > > >
> > > > You can use it with a dual VCA if you want to
> > place your sound in the
> > > > stereo field, this way you can choose the amount
> > of sound you want in
> > > > the center and at the sides.
> > > >
> > > > What do you think of it ?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
> http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
> http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
> http://www.DiN.org.uk
> http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
> http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
> http://www.rubber.gr
> Athens-Greece
> 
> 
>      
____________________________________________________________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: Module idea : L-R to M-S to L-R

2008-02-11 by hardware@doepfer.de

> @Dieter : I understand that there's no point in designing and
> manufacturing module that won't sell, even if it is easy to design.
> Would you mind help the few people like me who would like to have such
> a module DIY, like you did for the power amplifier (to use CV with
> lights or motors) ? That would be very kind of you.

This module is nothing but a combination of several "inverting amplifier"
circuits that is aleady available as schematics on the DIY page. But if you
need details I can make an overall schematic.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.