Doepfer

hello to all,
i was reading the comments so far and went and voted in the polls but wanted to add some thoughts of my own :
1) modules with digital internals are fine with me as long as we keep the user interface analog - no menu`s, lcd`s, etc..
2) without knowing what chip doepfer is using for the initial bit cruncher module, i wonder if its possible to design a "core" that would allow efficient execution of other digitally inspired functions such as the proposed granular, sampling and efx modules - ? - then add the required u / i (pots, etc.) as each module develops. this might reduce duplication of effort internally while allowing each module to dictate its own u / i needs more cleanly plus it eliminates the complexity of a generalized digital internals multi-function module as was originally put forward as an idea by doepfer.
3) i`m a radio freak, i use 3 small, cheap am/fm/sw units in my setup and love them, but we`ve visited this issue before here and it was felt that there were too many limitations in doing one right as a module. sadly, i think i agree here - i`d love one but don`t see it as a realistic doepfer product. additionally, stuff like vlf radio, which can produce some amazing sounds, just won`t work well in the area`s most of us live in due to overwhelming local radio clutter and interference. worse, over the years, sw has become much less common, falling victim to the internet and streaming "radio" as one example - there`s good, weird stuff out there on the airwaves but its harder to exploit cheaply and easily (in my case, i strung a long wire along my roof and clip it to the antenna`s of my little recievers which helps. in the u.s., am radio is a really useful source for transmission skip effects, foreign language stations, etc.) than it was 30 years ago when i started playing with e.m. idea`s.
4) sometimes i wonder if its "necessary" (efficient - ?) for doepfer as a company to largely duplicate parallel module developments by other companies - ? i`ll use the proposed delay module as an example here - harvestman is about to release a similar module (tyme safari) - granted, every company would add its own little twists but is the overall duplicated effort useful - ? (i skipped the upcoming bit crusher as an example compared to harvestmans malgorithm because it looks like the doepfer version will have other operating modes beyond bit reduction and s/r manipulation.). 
5) the sensor input modules could be handy as i like odd controllers and could possibly be developed using the a-119 env. follower and a-179 light controller circuitry as a starting point, saving effort - ?
best,
dave


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Hello Dave,

the bit crusher is a development based on the AD/DA
module and, so, doepfer was working on it before the
Malgorithm came...
also, more digital modules from doepfer will come that
are results of development from the AD/DA module...
but these were planned by doepfer before the new
harvestman line was announced (i guess...)
(please, correct me if i'm wrong Dieter)

but, anyway, both the harvestman and the doepfer line
of digital modules will be very interesting, for sure,
so it great for us the users!   :-)

best regards,
Bakis.


--- davevosh@aol.com wrote:

> 
> 
> hello to all,
> i was reading the comments so far and went and voted
> in the polls but wanted to add some thoughts of my
> own :
> 1) modules with digital internals are fine with me
> as long as we keep the user interface analog - no
> menu`s, lcd`s, etc..
> 2) without knowing what chip doepfer is using for
> the initial bit cruncher module, i wonder if its
> possible to design a "core" that would allow
> efficient execution of other digitally inspired
> functions such as the proposed granular, sampling
> and efx modules - ? - then add the required u / i
> (pots, etc.) as each module develops. this might
> reduce duplication of effort internally while
> allowing each module to dictate its own u / i needs
> more cleanly plus it eliminates the complexity of a
> generalized digital internals multi-function module
> as was originally put forward as an idea by doepfer.
> 3) i`m a radio freak, i use 3 small, cheap am/fm/sw
> units in my setup and love them, but we`ve visited
> this issue before here and it was felt that there
> were too many limitations in doing one right as a
> module. sadly, i think i agree here - i`d love one
> but don`t see it as a realistic doepfer product.
> additionally, stuff like vlf radio, which can
> produce some amazing sounds, just won`t work well in
> the area`s most of us live in due to overwhelming
> local radio clutter and interference. worse, over
> the years, sw has become much less common, falling
> victim to the internet and streaming "radio" as one
> example - there`s good, weird stuff out there on the
> airwaves but its harder to exploit cheaply and
> easily (in my case, i strung a long wire along my
> roof and clip it to the antenna`s of my little
> recievers which helps. in the u.s., am radio is a
> really useful source for transmission skip effects,
> foreign language stations, etc.) than it was 30
> years ago when i started playing with e.m. idea`s.
> 4) sometimes i wonder if its "necessary" (efficient
> - ?) for doepfer as a company to largely duplicate
> parallel module developments by other companies - ?
> i`ll use the proposed delay module as an example
> here - harvestman is about to release a similar
> module (tyme safari) - granted, every company would
> add its own little twists but is the overall
> duplicated effort useful - ? (i skipped the upcoming
> bit crusher as an example compared to harvestmans
> malgorithm because it looks like the doepfer version
> will have other operating modes beyond bit reduction
> and s/r manipulation.). 
> 5) the sensor input modules could be handy as i like
> odd controllers and could possibly be developed
> using the a-119 env. follower and a-179 light
> controller circuitry as a starting point, saving
> effort - ?
> best,
> dave
> 
> 
>
________________________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL
> Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

but, anyway, both the harvestman and the doepfer line
of digital modules will be very interesting, for sure,
so it great for us the users! :-)




bakis, 
i apologise to all concerned if i wasn`t clear on the bit crusher - i know its an outgrowth of something doepfer had been working on (ad / da module) and showing for comments for some time. 
my general idea was that none of these companies are large and i`m sure they all work on very thin margins?so a reduction of duplication of effort helps everyone as it leaves them free to explore other weird module r and d.
also, there is a big difference between "announced" and "deliverable", something to be considered when pondering and planning synth expansion, how long are you willing to wait for module "xyz" from manufacturer "a" as opposed to acquiring now from manufacturer "b" - ?
these are just things to think about -? i like and use both doepfer and harvestman (and, like most of the list i suspect, a host of others,too, both euro and not) and feel they are providing a real service to our modular community.
best,
dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:46 pm
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] new polls / module idea`s -






Hello Dave,

the bit crusher is a development based on the AD/DA
module and, so, doepfer was working on it before the
Malgorithm came...
also, more digital modules from doepfer will come that
are results of development from the AD/DA module...
but these were planned by doepfer before the new
harvestman line was announced (i guess...)
(please, correct me if i'm wrong Dieter)

but, anyway, both the harvestman and the doepfer line
of digital modules will be very interesting, for sure,
so it great for us the users! :-)

best regards,
Bakis.

--- davevosh@aol.com wrote:

> 
> 
> hello to all,
> i was reading the comments so far and went and voted
> in the polls but wanted to add some thoughts of my
> own :
> 1) modules with digital internals are fine with me
> as long as we keep the user interface analog - no
> menu`s, lcd`s, etc..
> 2) without knowing what chip doepfer is using for
> the initial bit cruncher module, i wonder if its
> possible to design a "core" that would allow
> efficient execution of other digitally inspired
> functions such as the proposed granular, sampling
> and efx modules - ? - then add the required u / i
> (pots, etc.) as each module develops. this might
> reduce duplication of effort internally while
> allowing each module to dictate its own u / i needs
> more cleanly plus it eliminates the complexity of a
> generalized digital internals multi-function module
> as was originally put forward as an idea by doepfer.
> 3) i`m a radio freak, i use 3 small, cheap am/fm/sw
> units in my setup and love them, but we`ve visited
> this issue before here and it was felt that there
> were too many limitations in doing one right as a
> module. sadly, i think i agree here - i`d love one
> but don`t see it as a realistic doepfer product.
> additionally, stuff like vlf radio, which can
> produce some amazing sounds, just won`t work well in
> the area`s most of us live in due to overwhelming
> local radio clutter and interference. worse, over
> the years, sw has become much less common, falling
> victim to the internet and streaming "radio" as one
> example - there`s good, weird stuff out there on the
> airwaves but its harder to exploit cheaply and
> easily (in my case, i strung a long wire along my
> roof and clip it to the antenna`s of my little
> recievers which helps. in the u.s., am radio is a
> really useful source for transmission skip effects,
> foreign language stations, etc.) than it was 30
> years ago when i started playing with e.m. idea`s.
> 4) sometimes i wonder if its "necessary" (efficient
> - ?) for doepfer as a company to largely duplicate
> parallel module developments by other companies - ?
> i`ll use the proposed delay module as an example
> here - harvestman is about to release a similar
> module (tyme safari) - granted, every company would
> add its own little twists but is the overall
> duplicated effort useful - ? (i skipped the upcoming
> bit crusher as an example compared to harvestmans
> malgorithm because it looks like the doepfer version
> will have other operating modes beyond bit reduction
> and s/r manipulation.). 
> 5) the sensor input modules could be handy as i like
> odd controllers and could possibly be developed
> using the a-119 env. follower and a-179 light
> controller circuitry as a starting point, saving
> effort - ?
> best,
> dave
> 
> 
>
__________________________________________________________
> More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL
> Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
http://www.DiN.org.uk
http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
http://www.rubber.gr
Athens-Greece

__________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



 

________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever.  Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Dave, Bakis, Folks:

Dieter has been the most productive and affordable modular designer ever. If people want a bit crusher now they buy a Malgorithm. I look forward to Doepfer's - I owned and then sold a Malgorithm. To my good fortune the NAMM demo sold me on the Doepfer unit anyway. The Harvestman will go deeper into his magic to produce something even further out.

Bill

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: davevosh@aol.com 
  To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:13 PM
  Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] new polls / module idea`s -




  but, anyway, both the harvestman and the doepfer line
  of digital modules will be very interesting, for sure,
  so it great for us the users! :-)

  bakis, 
  i apologise to all concerned if i wasn`t clear on the bit crusher - i know its an outgrowth of something doepfer had been working on (ad / da module) and showing for comments for some time. 
  my general idea was that none of these companies are large and i`m sure they all work on very thin margins?so a reduction of duplication of effort helps everyone as it leaves them free to explore other weird module r and d.
  also, there is a big difference between "announced" and "deliverable", something to be considered when pondering and planning synth expansion, how long are you willing to wait for module "xyz" from manufacturer "a" as opposed to acquiring now from manufacturer "b" - ?
  these are just things to think about -? i like and use both doepfer and harvestman (and, like most of the list i suspect, a host of others,too, both euro and not) and feel they are providing a real service to our modular community.
  best,
  dave

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
  To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:46 pm
  Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] new polls / module idea`s -

  Hello Dave,

  the bit crusher is a development based on the AD/DA
  module and, so, doepfer was working on it before the
  Malgorithm came...
  also, more digital modules from doepfer will come that
  are results of development from the AD/DA module...
  but these were planned by doepfer before the new
  harvestman line was announced (i guess...)
  (please, correct me if i'm wrong Dieter)

  but, anyway, both the harvestman and the doepfer line
  of digital modules will be very interesting, for sure,
  so it great for us the users! :-)

  best regards,
  Bakis.

  --- davevosh@aol.com wrote:

  > 
  > 
  > hello to all,
  > i was reading the comments so far and went and voted
  > in the polls but wanted to add some thoughts of my
  > own :
  > 1) modules with digital internals are fine with me
  > as long as we keep the user interface analog - no
  > menu`s, lcd`s, etc..
  > 2) without knowing what chip doepfer is using for
  > the initial bit cruncher module, i wonder if its
  > possible to design a "core" that would allow
  > efficient execution of other digitally inspired
  > functions such as the proposed granular, sampling
  > and efx modules - ? - then add the required u / i
  > (pots, etc.) as each module develops. this might
  > reduce duplication of effort internally while
  > allowing each module to dictate its own u / i needs
  > more cleanly plus it eliminates the complexity of a
  > generalized digital internals multi-function module
  > as was originally put forward as an idea by doepfer.
  > 3) i`m a radio freak, i use 3 small, cheap am/fm/sw
  > units in my setup and love them, but we`ve visited
  > this issue before here and it was felt that there
  > were too many limitations in doing one right as a
  > module. sadly, i think i agree here - i`d love one
  > but don`t see it as a realistic doepfer product.
  > additionally, stuff like vlf radio, which can
  > produce some amazing sounds, just won`t work well in
  > the area`s most of us live in due to overwhelming
  > local radio clutter and interference. worse, over
  > the years, sw has become much less common, falling
  > victim to the internet and streaming "radio" as one
  > example - there`s good, weird stuff out there on the
  > airwaves but its harder to exploit cheaply and
  > easily (in my case, i strung a long wire along my
  > roof and clip it to the antenna`s of my little
  > recievers which helps. in the u.s., am radio is a
  > really useful source for transmission skip effects,
  > foreign language stations, etc.) than it was 30
  > years ago when i started playing with e.m. idea`s.
  > 4) sometimes i wonder if its "necessary" (efficient
  > - ?) for doepfer as a company to largely duplicate
  > parallel module developments by other companies - ?
  > i`ll use the proposed delay module as an example
  > here - harvestman is about to release a similar
  > module (tyme safari) - granted, every company would
  > add its own little twists but is the overall
  > duplicated effort useful - ? (i skipped the upcoming
  > bit crusher as an example compared to harvestmans
  > malgorithm because it looks like the doepfer version
  > will have other operating modes beyond bit reduction
  > and s/r manipulation.). 
  > 5) the sensor input modules could be handy as i like
  > odd controllers and could possibly be developed
  > using the a-119 env. follower and a-179 light
  > controller circuitry as a starting point, saving
  > effort - ?
  > best,
  > dave
  > 
  > 
  >
  __________________________________________________________
  > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL
  > Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
  > removed]
  > 
  > 

  Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
  [Doepfer_a100] group owner
  http://www.parallel-worlds-music.com
  http://www.myspace.com/parallelworldsmusic
  http://www.myspace.com/interconnectedmusic
  http://www.myspace.com/memorygeist
  http://www.DiN.org.uk
  http://www.musicamaximamagnetica.com
  http://www.shimarecords.co.uk
  http://www.rubber.gr
  Athens-Greece

  __________________________________________________________
  Be a better friend, newshound, and 
  know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 

  __________________________________________________________
  More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> 4) sometimes i wonder if its "necessary" (efficient - ?) for
> doepfer as a company to largely duplicate parallel module
> developments by other companies - ? i`ll use the proposed delay
> module as an example here - harvestman is about to release a
> similar module (tyme safari) - granted, every company would add
> its own little twists but is the overall duplicated effort useful
> - ? (i skipped the upcoming bit crusher as an example compared to
> harvestmans malgorithm because it looks like the doepfer version
> will have other operating modes beyond bit reduction and s/r
> manipulation.).

Dave,

concerning the modules mentioned by you (delay, bit crusher/cruncher) it's
wrong to say that we duplicate parallel module developments by other
companies!

The bit cruncher and delay are a sub-functions of the universal AD/DA module
and has been discussed for a long time. I'd recommend to look for example at
these messages from me:

Here is an excerpt from my message (dated January 07, 2004):

"Some modules are still in the early development state .......
A-1xx 12 Bit Clocked Delay, A-1xx Bit Cruncher (with voltage control bit
number 1...12
and voltage controlled sample rate ...."

And another an excerpt from a message dated November 25, 2004 says:

"For the next time we plan to finish some other modules ..., the universal
analog module series (from
bit cruncher to delay), start some BBD investigations ...."

In a message from May 08, 2006 I said (concerning the universal AD/DA
module):

"Probably two types of modules will be designed at first: one without memory
(for "immediate" real-time calculations like bit cruncher, bit exchanger,
wave multiplier, wave shaper, ...) and another with a large memory for
applications like clocked audio delay, clocked CV delay, sampler, digital
sequencer ..."

The first version of our bit cruncher was exhibited already at NAMM January
2007 (please look at my message from December 16, 2006) and Musikmesse March
2007. But this prototype still included the LCD and menu buttons. What we
did is to remove the LCD and the menu buttons and reduce the controls to all
functions needed for the Bit Cruncher.

So I think it's wrong to say that we duplicate parallel module developments
by other companies!

You can glean all these messages in the Yahoo group history.


Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> Hello Dave,
>
> the bit crusher is a development based on the AD/DA
> module and, so, doepfer was working on it before the Malgorithm came...
> also, more digital modules from doepfer will come that
> are results of development from the AD/DA module...
> but these were planned by doepfer before the new
> harvestman line was announced (i guess...)
> (please, correct me if i'm wrong Dieter)

Bakis,

no you are right. The bit cruncher is a sub-function of the universal AD/DA
module and has been discussed for a long time.
Please look at my answer to Dave.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Dave,

you find some comments written inline.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer


> 1) modules with digital internals are fine with me as long as we
> keep the user interface analog - no menu`s, lcd`s, etc..

100% agree. This is why e.g. the A-189-1 bit modifier does not have the LCD
and menu buttons of the first prototype shown at NAMM 2007.

> 2) without knowing what chip doepfer is using for the initial bit
> cruncher module, i wonder if its possible to design a "core" that
> would allow efficient execution of other digitally inspired
> functions such as the proposed granular, sampling and efx modules
> - ? - then add the required u / i (pots, etc.) as each module
> develops. this might reduce duplication of effort internally
> while allowing each module to dictate its own u / i needs more
> cleanly plus it eliminates the complexity of a generalized
> digital internals multi-function module as was originally put
> forward as an idea by doepfer.

That's exactly what we did. We have two "cores" (small adapter boards): one
with a large memory (for anything that has to do with CV or audio delay) and
another one for immediate signal processing/calculation without the need of
a memory. But for the bit modifier A-189-1 we found that it's cheaper not to
use the additional board but to put the microcontroller directly to the main
pc board.