Doepfer

hi group,

i need to be able to use a trigger (in this case closed hihat) to kill
the release stage of an envelope (open hh), and i could use help on
two questions:

will putting a negative cv into a vc-adsr (set manually to a long
release) achieve this, or will the
release stage continue at the pace it was set at when the gate was
released?

is there a way to do this with the standard adsr?

i suppose a third question would be, how do others implement the
open/closed hh thing?

grateful for all comments,

stu

> I use an anp env with a short decay and a long release. The decay part 
> is for the closed hh and the release part takes care of the open hh. A 
> short note then gives an open hh, as the decay part doesn't have the 
> time to set in, and a long note makes a closed hh, because the decay 
> part turns it off.

nice solution. i say that a little sheepishly, since i do just that
with the snare sound, but am apparently too dense to apply the same
idea to a hihat :{

i met two disadvantages doing this. the first was that the trigger
delay that i use to stretch the trigger covers the entire usable
drum-typical range over about five degrees of a pot turn. dieter, if
you're listening, is there a simple hack to reduce the entire trigger
length range to, say, 1500ms?

the second problem applies to all adsr-based solutions, namely no
dynamic variation. so i'm using a few selfmade slew limiters, which
give great results, but i've yet to think of a rack-space friendly way
to kill
the release. i suppose a vcs used to short the cv to ground would do it.

or the fricke hihat module, but that's cheating :)

stu

Hi!

Stu Grimshaw wrote:

> i suppose a third question would be, how do others implement the
> open/closed hh thing?

I use an anp env with a short decay and a long release. The decay part 
is for the closed hh and the release part takes care of the open hh. A 
short note then gives an open hh, as the decay part doesn't have the 
time to set in, and a long note makes a closed hh, because the decay 
part turns it off.

That description probably could use some refinement, but anyway...

Cheers,

	Kim

Hi Stuart

> will putting a negative cv into a vc-adsr (set manually to a long
> release) achieve this, or will the
> release stage continue at the pace it was set at when the gate was
> released?
Nope. As far as I remember the schematics, the parameters can be edited 
in realtime - even while the attack/decay/release already has started.

> is there a way to do this with the standard adsr?
Not without modifications.

> i suppose a third question would be, how do others implement the
> open/closed hh thing?

I do it similar as Kim, but the other way round: the decay is set to the 
long time, the release to the short time. This ensures, that a retrigger 
stops the open hihat.
The corresponding Audio Example is available at:
http://fa.utfs.org/musik/synthesizer-buch/book-audioexample-31.mp3

Florian

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Stu Grimshaw" <grimshaw@...> wrote:

> 
> i suppose a third question would be, how do others implement the
> open/closed hh thing?

i do this with the a142 vc decay. with the cv you can control the
length  of the decay: short decay for the closed hh, long decay for
the open hh. the good thing is you can morph between the open and
closed hh which can result in very cool grooves.

regards,
oliver
http://www.namshub.ch/

Hi Oliver

>>i suppose a third question would be, how do others implement the
>>open/closed hh thing?
> i do this with the a142 vc decay. with the cv you can control the
> length  of the decay: short decay for the closed hh, long decay for
> the open hh. the good thing is you can morph between the open and
> closed hh which can result in very cool grooves.

Thats good too.  The only disadvantage is: a "real" open hihat has in 
fact not really a decay envelope, but an decay/release, where the decay 
happens while the hihat is opened (pedal pressed) and the release, when 
it gets closed (release pedal).The question is, whether we want to 
imitate a real hihat. ;-)

Florian

Florian wrote:

> I do it similar as Kim, but the other way round: the decay is set to the
> long time, the release to the short time. This ensures, that a retrigger
> stops the open hihat.

I have that built-in, as I've only done it with monophonic synths :-)

> The corresponding Audio Example is available at:
> http://fa.utfs.org/musik/synthesizer-buch/book-audioexample-31.mp3

Enlightening :-)

Cheers,

Kim

Stu,

you find my answers written inline.

Best regards
Dieter Doepfer
Doepfer Musikelektronik GmbH
hardware@doepfer.de
__________________________________________________________________

Doepfer Musikelektronik GmbH
based in Graefelfing/Germany
registered in Munich/Germany, commercial registry HRB 97 399
CEO's: Sibille Heller, Dieter Doepfer
European VAT ID No. DE129329318
website: www.doepfer.com
__________________________________________________________________



> hi group,
>
> i need to be able to use a trigger (in this case closed hihat) to kill
> the release stage of an envelope (open hh), and i could use help on
> two questions:
>
> will putting a negative cv into a vc-adsr (set manually to a long
> release) achieve this,

yes,  at least for the A-141. But I don't know how other VC-ADSRs work.

> or will the release stage continue at the pace it was set at when the gate
was
> released?
>
> is there a way to do this with the standard adsr?

solution #1: universal vactrol module across the Release potentiometer
solution #2: VC switch across the Release potentiometer (e.g. A-150)

Hi

> solution #1: universal vactrol module across the Release potentiometer
> solution #2: VC switch across the Release potentiometer (e.g. A-150)
Four both solutions I suggest not to short the Release pot completely, 
but switch a smaller resistor value or a second potentiometer in 
parallel, so there is still control for a shorter release time.

Another nice possibility would be: the switch should select whether the 
release-time is determined by the decay-potentiometer or the 
release-potentiometer. I am a big fan of the envelopes used in the moog 
prodigy or polymoog, which do not know about a separate release, but 
simply have a switch that enables release or not. For monophonic synths 
it is perfect for classic sequences, for polyphonic synths it works like 
the pedal of a piano.

An envelope which provides an additional alternative release-time would 
be perfect.

Florian

Unfortunately this is no longer true. For reasons closed to the public
Paul returned most of the CEMs to OnChip. By now he only offers a few
CEM types. The 3320 is no longer on sale through Paul. Sad news for
sure. Ingo

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dieter,
> >
> > Understandable.
> >
> > It's a nice filter, I have two, will you be keeping a stock of spare
> > CEM3320's for service or should I start negotiating with you to buy a
> > spare chip?
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Rgds
> >
> > David
> 
> Whenever the production of a module has to be stopped we keep a
couple of

> special circuits for service. The quantity of these spare parts is taken
> from our experience while the module was available (i.e. how many of the
> circuits were required as spare parts during the availability period).
> Luckily the CEM3320 are very reliable. I cannot remember that we had a
> defective CEM3320 except those cases where a wrong or reverse power
> supply/bus connector was the reason for the defective circuit.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> P.S. You can order spare CEM3320 (or other CEMs) even from Paul
> Schreiber/Synthtech in USA
>

Dear members,

I just wanted to let you know that we have to stop the production of the
multimode filter module A-121. The special circuit CEM3320 used in this
module is no longer available. I suppose that we will still be able to
deliver this module for about 6 months (based on our stock of CEM3320 and
the average sales of the A-121).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Hi Dieter,
 
Understandable.
 
It's a nice filter, I have two, will you be keeping a stock of spare
CEM3320's for service or should I start negotiating with you to buy a
spare chip?
 
Many thanks
 
Rgds
 
David
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
David Salter
Head SSG Nordics & Baltic's

Thomson Reuters

O +44 (0)20 7542 2402X 52402
M 07990562402

david.salter@thomsonreuters.com
thomsonreuters.com <http://thomsonreuters.com/> 

 

________________________________

From: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of hardware@doepfer.de
Sent: 17 June 2008 10:29
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] A-121 Multimode Filter discontinuation



Dear members,

I just wanted to let you know that we have to stop the production of the
multimode filter module A-121. The special circuit CEM3320 used in this
module is no longer available. I suppose that we will still be able to
deliver this module for about 6 months (based on our stock of CEM3320
and
the average sales of the A-121).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hi Dieter,
>
> Understandable.
>
> It's a nice filter, I have two, will you be keeping a stock of spare
> CEM3320's for service or should I start negotiating with you to buy a
> spare chip?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Rgds
>
> David

Whenever the production of a module has to be stopped we keep a couple of
special circuits for service. The quantity of these spare parts is taken
from our experience while the module was available (i.e. how many of the
circuits were required as spare parts during the availability period).
Luckily the CEM3320 are very reliable. I cannot remember that we had a
defective CEM3320 except those cases where a wrong or reverse power
supply/bus connector was the reason for the defective circuit.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

P.S. You can order spare CEM3320 (or other CEMs) even from Paul
Schreiber/Synthtech in USA

I did realise that.
 
Thanks for the heads up.
 
I'll have a shop around. I agree with Dieter that they are very reliable
but I use the mine a lot as a parallel pair so I would be upset if I
lost one for good.
 
Rgds
 
David
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
David Salter
Head SSG Nordics & Baltic's

Thomson Reuters

O +44 (0)20 7542 2402X 52402
M 07990562402

david.salter@thomsonreuters.com
thomsonreuters.com <http://thomsonreuters.com/> 

 

________________________________

From: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ilanode
Sent: 17 June 2008 11:44
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: A-121 Multimode Filter discontinuation



Unfortunately this is no longer true. For reasons closed to the public
Paul returned most of the CEMs to OnChip. By now he only offers a few
CEM types. The 3320 is no longer on sale through Paul. Sad news for
sure. Ingo

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com> , <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Dieter,
> >
> > Understandable.
> >
> > It's a nice filter, I have two, will you be keeping a stock of spare
> > CEM3320's for service or should I start negotiating with you to buy
a
> > spare chip?
> >
> > Many thanks
> >
> > Rgds
> >
> > David
> 
> Whenever the production of a module has to be stopped we keep a
couple of
> special circuits for service. The quantity of these spare parts is
taken
> from our experience while the module was available (i.e. how many of
the
> circuits were required as spare parts during the availability period).
> Luckily the CEM3320 are very reliable. I cannot remember that we had a
> defective CEM3320 except those cases where a wrong or reverse power
> supply/bus connector was the reason for the defective circuit.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> 
> P.S. You can order spare CEM3320 (or other CEMs) even from Paul
> Schreiber/Synthtech in USA
>



 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello

Will you develope another OTA-based Multimodefilter? (as in SEM-Modules, 
Roland Sys700, Formant,...).
> multimode filter module A-121. The special circuit CEM3320 used in this
> module is no longer available. 

Florian

Roland sys700 would be nice.
 
PPG 317 could be interesting, only because I had a brief chance to play
with one at Martin Newcomb's synth museum years ago when it existed and
it sounded great (from what I recall)
 
 :o) 
 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* * *
David Salter
Head SSG Nordics & Baltic's

Thomson Reuters

O +44 (0)20 7542 2402X 52402
M 07990562402

david.salter@thomsonreuters.com
thomsonreuters.com <http://thomsonreuters.com/> 

 

________________________________

From: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Florian Anwander
Sent: 17 June 2008 12:10
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] A-121 Multimode Filter discontinuation



Hello

Will you develope another OTA-based Multimodefilter? (as in SEM-Modules,

Roland Sys700, Formant,...).
> multimode filter module A-121. The special circuit CEM3320 used in
this
> module is no longer available. 

Florian


 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Hello
>
> Will you develope another OTA-based Multimodefilter? (as in SEM-Modules,
> Roland Sys700, Formant,...).
> > multimode filter module A-121. The special circuit CEM3320 used in this
> > module is no longer available.
>
> Florian

The A-106-5 SEM Filter is OTA based as well as the A-124 Wasp Filter and the
A-127 Triple Resonance Filter.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Bonggg...

> The A-106-5 SEM Filter is OTA based 
of course the 106. I forgot, that it exists (what is not in my rack does 
not exist... ;-))) )

> as well as the A-124 Wasp Filter 
But the A-124 is not a replacement for the sound of the A-121

> and the A-127 Triple Resonance Filter.
This is not multimode.

Thank you Dieter!

Florian

> Another nice possibility would be: the switch should select whether the 
> release-time is determined by the decay-potentiometer or the 
> release-potentiometer. I am a big fan of the envelopes used in the moog 
> prodigy or polymoog, which do not know about a separate release, but 
> simply have a switch that enables release or not. For monophonic synths 
> it is perfect for classic sequences, for polyphonic synths it works
like 
> the pedal of a piano.

i would second florian on that. envelopes play such an important role,
and yet the choice of types - not just by doepfer - is severely
limited. of course, there are innumerable ways to use other modules to
vary the shape of an evelope, but the same could be said of filters,
and we've got dozens of those.

stu

Dear members,

I just wanted to let you know that our present source of CEM3320, CEM3340
and CEM3381/PA381 (Paul Schreiber/Synthtech) is no longer able to supply
these circuits. Consequently all modules that contain these circuits have to
be discontinued. These modules are affected: A-111 (CEM3340), A-121
(CEM3320), A-123 (CEM3320), A-129 (CEM3381), A-134 (CEM3381) and A-135
(CEM3381). I have already announced the discontinuation of A-121 and A-123
in an earlier message but now it's for sure that Paul is no longer able to
supply these parts.

The situation is not dramatic as we still have some stock of all these
circuits that should last at least until end of this year. We are also in
negotiation with Onchip (the successor of Curtis/CES) to find out if there
is a way to obtain these circuit in the future. But this is still totally
uncertain.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

Hmm... considering that module was mentioned;

How far away if the A-111-2 Dynamic VCO prototype from release?

::)

Michael



On 31/07/2008, at 6:24 PM, <hardware@doepfer.de> <hardware@doepfer.de>  
wrote:

> Dear members,
>
> I just wanted to let you know that our present source of CEM3320,  
> CEM3340
> and CEM3381/PA381 (Paul Schreiber/Synthtech) is no longer able to  
> supply
> these circuits. Consequently all modules that contain these circuits  
> have to
> be discontinued. These modules are affected: A-111 (CEM3340), A-121
> (CEM3320), A-123 (CEM3320), A-129 (CEM3381), A-134 (CEM3381) and A-135
> (CEM3381). I have already announced the discontinuation of A-121 and  
> A-123
> in an earlier message but now it's for sure that Paul is no longer  
> able to
> supply these parts.
>
> The situation is not dramatic as we still have some stock of all these
> circuits that should last at least until end of this year. We are  
> also in
> negotiation with Onchip (the successor of Curtis/CES) to find out if  
> there
> is a way to obtain these circuit in the future. But this is still  
> totally
> uncertain.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry Dieter,
But are you sure that A129 is correct in this row? Don't you mean A122 ?
If it is so, which of the vocoder modules is affected then?

Greetings,

Ernst





On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 12:24 PM, <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:

>   Dear members,
>
> I just wanted to let you know that our present source of CEM3320, CEM3340
> and CEM3381/PA381 (Paul Schreiber/Synthtech) is no longer able to supply
> these circuits. Consequently all modules that contain these circuits have
> to
> be discontinued. These modules are affected: A-111 (CEM3340), A-121
> (CEM3320), A-123 (CEM3320), A-129 (CEM3381), A-134 (CEM3381) and A-135
> (CEM3381). I have already announced the discontinuation of A-121 and A-123
> in an earlier message but now it's for sure that Paul is no longer able to
> supply these parts.
>
> The situation is not dramatic as we still have some stock of all these
> circuits that should last at least until end of this year. We are also in
> negotiation with Onchip (the successor of Curtis/CES) to find out if there
> is a way to obtain these circuit in the future. But this is still totally
> uncertain.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Sorry Dieter,
> But are you sure that A129 is correct in this row? Don't you mean A122 ?
> If it is so, which of the vocoder modules is affected then?
>
> Greetings,
>
> Ernst

The A-129-2 uses CEM3381/PA381. Consequently A-129-1 and -2 are affected as
the A-129-1 makes sense only in combination with the A-129-2. We think about
a redesign of the A-129-2 with other VCAs but I don't know when we will have
time for that. The A-122 has been already redesigned without CEM3320
(CEM3379 instead where we have sufficient stock for the next few years).

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

> Hmm... considering that module was mentioned;
>
> How far away if the A-111-2 Dynamic VCO prototype from release?
>
> ::)
>
> Michael

The inquiries for the A-111-2 have been very poor so far. This is why other
new modules have been prefered. The further development of the A-111-2 has
been put on hold since about 6 months. We could finish the A-111-2 probably
until end of this year provided that there are sufficient inquiries. It does
not make much sense for us to finish a development if the interest is poor.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

hi Dieter,
 
yes, but what module will replace the A111 then?
 
best regards,
Bakis.
 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Thu, 7/31/08, hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] discontinuation of all modules with CEM3320, CEM3340 and CEM3381/PA381
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 3:19 PM






> Hmm... considering that module was mentioned;
>
> How far away if the A-111-2 Dynamic VCO prototype from release?
>
> ::)
>
> Michael

The inquiries for the A-111-2 have been very poor so far. This is why other
new modules have been prefered. The further development of the A-111-2 has
been put on hold since about 6 months. We could finish the A-111-2 probably
until end of this year provided that there are sufficient inquiries. It does
not make much sense for us to finish a development if the interest is poor.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I agree with Bakis. There is a need for a VCO with better tracking and 
temperature stability than the A-110. Also the frequency modulation with 
the triangle core oscillator in the CEM-3340 makes a big difference.

Florian

Bakis Sirros wrote:

> yes, but what module will replace the A111 then?

>> The inquiries for the A-111-2 have been very poor so far. This is why other
>> new modules have been prefered. The further development of the A-111-2 has
>> been put on hold since about 6 months. We could finish the A-111-2 probably
>> until end of this year provided that there are sufficient inquiries. It does
>> not make much sense for us to finish a development if the interest is poor.

> hi Dieter,
>  
> yes, but what module will replace the A111 then?
>  
> best regards,
> Bakis.

There are no plans for a replacement of the A-111.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

hi Dieter,     :-)
 
what? no VCO with linear FM??
 
the A111 is one of my favourite vco's....
 
:-(
 
i hope that, in time, you'll develope and build the a111-2...(or, any substritie of the A111, a vco with triangle core and linear FM with extensive octave range and both hard and soft sync, as the a111 was...)
 
a vco with extensive features and Lineaf FM is essential for an advanced modular system like the A100. otherwise the vco will be its 'weak link'... you cannot have all these great and advanced module and only a basic vco like the A110...
 
i hope you'll change your mind on this Dieter.
 
thanks,
best regards,     :-)
Bakis.
 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Thu, 7/31/08, hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] discontinuation of all modules with CEM3320, CEM3340 and CEM3381/PA381
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 3:57 PM






> hi Dieter,
>  
> yes, but what module will replace the A111 then?
>  
> best regards,
> Bakis.

There are no plans for a replacement of the A-111.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hmm, then i shall better order one soon...


On 31/07/2008, at 9:09 PM, Bakis Sirros wrote:

> hi Dieter,     :-)
>
> what? no VCO with linear FM??
>
> the A111 is one of my favourite vco's....
>
> :-(
>
> i hope that, in time, you'll develope and build the a111-2...(or,  
> any substritie of the A111, a vco with triangle core and linear FM  
> with extensive octave range and both hard and soft sync, as the a111  
> was...)
>
> a vco with extensive features and Lineaf FM is essential for an  
> advanced modular system like the A100. otherwise the vco will be its  
> 'weak link'... you cannot have all these great and advanced module  
> and only a basic vco like the A110...
>
> i hope you'll change your mind on this Dieter.
>
> thanks,
> best regards,     :-)
> Bakis.
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
> --- On Thu, 7/31/08, hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:
>
> From: hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de>
> Subject: AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] discontinuation of all modules with  
> CEM3320, CEM3340 and CEM3381/PA381
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 3:57 PM
>
> > hi Dieter,
> >
> > yes, but what module will replace the A111 then?
> >
> > best regards,
> > Bakis.
>
> There are no plans for a replacement of the A-111.
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> hi Dieter,     :-)
>  
> what? no VCO with linear FM??
>  
> the A111 is one of my favourite vco's....
>  
> :-(
>  
> i hope that, in time, you'll develope and build the a111-2...(or,
> any substritie of the A111, a vco with triangle core and linear
> FM with extensive octave range and both hard and soft sync, as
> the a111 was...)
>  
> a vco with extensive features and Lineaf FM is essential for an
> advanced modular system like the A100. otherwise the vco will be
> its 'weak link'... you cannot have all these great and advanced
> module and only a basic vco like the A110...
>  
> i hope you'll change your mind on this Dieter.
>  
> thanks,
> best regards,     :-)
> Bakis.

Hi Bakis,

I can't see the problems at the moment. The A-111(-1) is still available and
everybody who needs the features of the A-111 is able to order one or more
A-111. Even the A-110 has an internal linear FM input available and maybe we
could offer a breakout  panel for the soft-sync and linear FM input of the
A-110.

The A-111-2 would have a linear FM input that can be switched between DC and
AC coupling but the inquirires for the A-111-2 are very poor and this is why
we did not carry on with this module so far. I was really surprised that
there are not more inquiries because the announced approximate price of this
module was specified with Euro 250 only compared to the A-111-1 which is
only Euro 10 less (Euro 240). Maybe things will change if the A-111-1 is no
longer available.

In addition I'm in contact with Onchip as they got back the CEM3340 from
Paul Schreiber. Paul told me that he sold the circuits on commision for
Onchip but now they claimed back all remaining CEM circuits from him. I
don't know why they did that. It has to do probably with Doug Curtis'
passing away. Maybe they are willing to sell me the CEM3340 in the future
and then the A-111 problems would be solved. But this is uncertain and
consequently we have to inform the A-100 customers that the A-111 will be
probably/possibly discontinued.

In addition we have some other VCOs in the development state, e.g. the
tru-zero quadrature VCO which will have also linear FM (that's essential for
thru-zero).

And when I look at our sales things are different: we sell more than 10
times more A-110 than A-111 (i.e. only about 7 or 8 A-111 for 100 A-110)!

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

P.S. I'm leaving for a few days. I'll be back on Tuesday.

hi Dieter,
 
ok, i'll buy the A111-2 if its released!     
 
btw, i am sure that the enquiries for the A111-2 will increase much, when the A111 is no longer in production.
 
but, things change if you develope and introduce a thru zero linear fm osc with 1volt/oct tracking of course.
 
anyway, one way or the other, i am sure that people will want an advanced vco, once the a111 is no more.
 
best regards,     :-)
Bakis.
ps: yes, the a110 sells 10 times more than the a111, because it has half its price....but that does not mean that an advanced vco is not essential for the A100 modular system.


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Thu, 7/31/08, hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: hardware@doepfer.de <hardware@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] discontinuation of all modules with CEM3320, CEM3340 and CEM3381/PA381
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 31, 2008, 4:30 PM






> hi Dieter,     :-)
>  
> what? no VCO with linear FM??
>  
> the A111 is one of my favourite vco's....
>  
> :-(
>  
> i hope that, in time, you'll develope and build the a111-2...(or,
> any substritie of the A111, a vco with triangle core and linear
> FM with extensive octave range and both hard and soft sync, as
> the a111 was...)
>  
> a vco with extensive features and Lineaf FM is essential for an
> advanced modular system like the A100. otherwise the vco will be
> its 'weak link'... you cannot have all these great and advanced
> module and only a basic vco like the A110...
>  
> i hope you'll change your mind on this Dieter.
>  
> thanks,
> best regards,     :-)
> Bakis.

Hi Bakis,

I can't see the problems at the moment. The A-111(-1) is still available and
everybody who needs the features of the A-111 is able to order one or more
A-111. Even the A-110 has an internal linear FM input available and maybe we
could offer a breakout panel for the soft-sync and linear FM input of the
A-110.

The A-111-2 would have a linear FM input that can be switched between DC and
AC coupling but the inquirires for the A-111-2 are very poor and this is why
we did not carry on with this module so far. I was really surprised that
there are not more inquiries because the announced approximate price of this
module was specified with Euro 250 only compared to the A-111-1 which is
only Euro 10 less (Euro 240). Maybe things will change if the A-111-1 is no
longer available.

In addition I'm in contact with Onchip as they got back the CEM3340 from
Paul Schreiber. Paul told me that he sold the circuits on commision for
Onchip but now they claimed back all remaining CEM circuits from him. I
don't know why they did that. It has to do probably with Doug Curtis'
passing away. Maybe they are willing to sell me the CEM3340 in the future
and then the A-111 problems would be solved. But this is uncertain and
consequently we have to inform the A-100 customers that the A-111 will be
probably/possibly discontinued.

In addition we have some other VCOs in the development state, e.g. the
tru-zero quadrature VCO which will have also linear FM (that's essential for
thru-zero).

And when I look at our sales things are different: we sell more than 10
times more A-110 than A-111 (i.e. only about 7 or 8 A-111 for 100 A-110)!

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

P.S. I'm leaving for a few days. I'll be back on Tuesday.

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@...> wrote:
>
> > Hmm... considering that module was mentioned;
> >
> > How far away if the A-111-2 Dynamic VCO prototype from release?
> >
> > ::)
> >
> > Michael
> 
> The inquiries for the A-111-2 have been very poor so far. This is
why other
> new modules have been prefered. The further development of the
A-111-2 has
> been put on hold since about 6 months. We could finish the A-111-2
probably
> until end of this year provided that there are sufficient inquiries.
It does
> not make much sense for us to finish a development if the interest
is poor.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>


hello dieter,

maybe a lot of potential customers are waiting for the redesign,
which is mentioned on the a111/2 product page, before they order.
maybe i'm wrong but i would not expect many inquiries for a module
which is subject to change. i had the pleasure to try the first
prototype (thanks for that) and imho this vco is very cool,
something i will buy for sure if it will become available.
the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's,
all at a reasonable price. if you run out of cem3340, then the
a111/2 would be a great substitute for the a111/1. during the last
few years a lot of new advanced vco's have been released for the
eurorack and for me that shows a demand for good vco's.
after all the vco is the main sound source and should not
be disregarded. i hope that the availability problem with the
cem3340 will be resolved, so that you can continue with the a111/1,
but i would also encourage you to keep on working on the a111/2.

best wishes

ingo

totally agree with my friend!      :-)

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Fri, 8/1/08, selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: discontinuation of all modules with CEM3320, CEM3340 and CEM3381/PA381
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 1:50 PM






--- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, <hardware@.. .> wrote:
>
> > Hmm... considering that module was mentioned;
> >
> > How far away if the A-111-2 Dynamic VCO prototype from release?
> >
> > ::)
> >
> > Michael
> 
> The inquiries for the A-111-2 have been very poor so far. This is
why other
> new modules have been prefered. The further development of the
A-111-2 has
> been put on hold since about 6 months. We could finish the A-111-2
probably
> until end of this year provided that there are sufficient inquiries.
It does
> not make much sense for us to finish a development if the interest
is poor.
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>

hello dieter,

maybe a lot of potential customers are waiting for the redesign,
which is mentioned on the a111/2 product page, before they order.
maybe i'm wrong but i would not expect many inquiries for a module
which is subject to change. i had the pleasure to try the first
prototype (thanks for that) and imho this vco is very cool,
something i will buy for sure if it will become available.
the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's,
all at a reasonable price. if you run out of cem3340, then the
a111/2 would be a great substitute for the a111/1. during the last
few years a lot of new advanced vco's have been released for the
eurorack and for me that shows a demand for good vco's.
after all the vco is the main sound source and should not
be disregarded. i hope that the availability problem with the
cem3340 will be resolved, so that you can continue with the a111/1,
but i would also encourage you to keep on working on the a111/2.

best wishes

ingo

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's

I have to admit I'm one of those who were a bit dissapointed with the A111-2 features and 
example sounds.  Now I'm thinking maybe I'm missing something.

What exactly makes this VCO unique? Doesn't it seem like we can currently patch all it's 
features with current modules?



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" <synaptic_music@...> wrote:

>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, <hardware@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hmm... considering that module was mentioned;
> > >
> > > How far away if the A-111-2 Dynamic VCO prototype from release?
> > >
> > > ::)
> > >
> > > Michael
> > 
> > The inquiries for the A-111-2 have been very poor so far. This is
> why other
> > new modules have been prefered. The further development of the
> A-111-2 has
> > been put on hold since about 6 months. We could finish the A-111-2
> probably
> > until end of this year provided that there are sufficient inquiries.
> It does
> > not make much sense for us to finish a development if the interest
> is poor.
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > Dieter Doepfer
> >
> 
> 
> hello dieter,
> 
> maybe a lot of potential customers are waiting for the redesign,
> which is mentioned on the a111/2 product page, before they order.
> maybe i'm wrong but i would not expect many inquiries for a module
> which is subject to change. i had the pleasure to try the first
> prototype (thanks for that) and imho this vco is very cool,
> something i will buy for sure if it will become available.
> the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's,
> all at a reasonable price. if you run out of cem3340, then the
> a111/2 would be a great substitute for the a111/1. during the last
> few years a lot of new advanced vco's have been released for the
> eurorack and for me that shows a demand for good vco's.
> after all the vco is the main sound source and should not
> be disregarded. i hope that the availability problem with the
> cem3340 will be resolved, so that you can continue with the a111/1,
> but i would also encourage you to keep on working on the a111/2.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo
>

Hi,

All my oscillators track fine when plugged directly into my Kenton midi to cv converter. I patch in an A-170 to use as a portamento controller, and 1v/oct goes pretty much to hell. With all knobs fully counterclockwise the tracking sucks. Just patching it in causes the pitch to drop about 9 semitones.

I have two A-170's, so the odds of them both being busted is slim, and they work fine in every other application I use them for. The Kenton has portamento, but changing the value is a pain.

So what gives?

Hi Neil,

This sounds similar to a problem mentioned about 5 or 6 weeks ago, 
though 9 semitones sounds quite a bit worse: see original post 
#15747, my response/suggestion #15759, and Dieter's (v. similar) 
#15764.

Tim


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, neil jendon <n2eil@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> All my oscillators track fine when plugged directly into my Kenton 
midi to cv converter. I patch in an A-170 to use as a portamento 
controller, and 1v/oct goes pretty much to hell. With all knobs fully 
counterclockwise the tracking sucks. Just patching it in causes the 
pitch to drop about 9 semitones.
> 
> I have two A-170's, so the odds of them both being busted is slim, 
and they work fine in every other application I use them for. The 
Kenton has portamento, but changing the value is a pain.

> 
> So what gives?
>

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@...> wrote:
>
> 
> > the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's
> 
> I have to admit I'm one of those who were a bit dissapointed with
the A111-2 features and 
> example sounds.  Now I'm thinking maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> What exactly makes this VCO unique? Doesn't it seem like we can
currently patch all it's 
> features with current modules?


some, but not all.

the a111/2 is capable of dynamically switching between
waveforms within one wavecycle, resulting in new waveshapes.
this switching can be controlled via cv, so the a111/2 can
generate lots of dynamically changing timbres right on the
oscillator level, without the need for additional modules.

the built-in vcf offers linear frequency modulation via
the waveforms of the vco, which is veeery uncommon.

the a111/2 also has a built-in crossfader and a final vca.
these goodies look quite "familiar", nothing fancy about
it if you use these goodies as usual. but the fact that
they are built-in gives you extra capabilities.
with the crossfader you can create even more new dynamically
changing waveforms (when using a wave of the vco at the morph cv).
if you use the a111/2 as a modulator for fm, then the built-in
vca is very handy.
ok, especially the functions of the crossfader and vca can
be replicated easily, but since these parts are already there
you don't have to spend extra money on additional modules.
other manufacturers give "mysterious" names to such module
functions, just to force users to try a different and new
approach in using the module. instantly the dual cyclotron
from livewire comes into my mind. mike (my best wishes to him,
please get well soon) used the term "axis tilt" instead
of "pan", "linear" and "discreet" instead of "triangle" and
"square" and so on. all this makes users think they have something
fancy in their hands, but its just a unique name for something
quite common. maybe if dieter had chosen a different name for the
"pan" knob, lets say "waveform warp" or something like that,
then the a111/2 would probably look more attractive, but thats
not dieters style. 

the module layout of the prototype suggests a standard
subtractive patch, maybe thats also a reason why people are
not so enthusiastic about the features. thats not the
way how we should use the a111/2. all features should be
used directly for creation of new waveforms within the a111/2.
if you do this you will realise that the a111/2 can offer
a lot more different timbres than almost all other vco's.
of course you can do similar things with existing modules,
but it's the same with the cyclotron. you can replicate the
functions of that module too, but i don't think that
many users actually do this. having the features side by side
in one module sometimes makes a huge difference in how we use them.

the prototype had some quirks (f.e. different waveform levels),
but if dieter can sort these out the a111/2 will be a sure
shot for me.

best wishes

ingo

I've recreated the A-111-2 on the Clavia Micro Modulair, just to see
what such a VCO can do. To me it is a very cool sounding patch and I
would love to have the real thing. 
Here you can find the soundfile of that patch and the patch itself:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/89o80p

yes, once again, Ingo is right!
the A111-2 is essential for the A100 modular.

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Sat, 8/2/08, selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: selfoscillate <synaptic_music@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: discontinuation of all modules with CEM3320, CEM3340 and CEM3381/PA381
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 2:58 PM






--- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, "laryn91" <caymus91@.. .> wrote:
>
> 
> > the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's
> 
> I have to admit I'm one of those who were a bit dissapointed with
the A111-2 features and 
> example sounds. Now I'm thinking maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> What exactly makes this VCO unique? Doesn't it seem like we can
currently patch all it's 
> features with current modules?

some, but not all.

the a111/2 is capable of dynamically switching between
waveforms within one wavecycle, resulting in new waveshapes.
this switching can be controlled via cv, so the a111/2 can
generate lots of dynamically changing timbres right on the
oscillator level, without the need for additional modules.

the built-in vcf offers linear frequency modulation via
the waveforms of the vco, which is veeery uncommon.

the a111/2 also has a built-in crossfader and a final vca.
these goodies look quite "familiar", nothing fancy about
it if you use these goodies as usual. but the fact that
they are built-in gives you extra capabilities.
with the crossfader you can create even more new dynamically
changing waveforms (when using a wave of the vco at the morph cv).
if you use the a111/2 as a modulator for fm, then the built-in
vca is very handy.
ok, especially the functions of the crossfader and vca can
be replicated easily, but since these parts are already there
you don't have to spend extra money on additional modules.
other manufacturers give "mysterious" names to such module
functions, just to force users to try a different and new
approach in using the module. instantly the dual cyclotron
from livewire comes into my mind. mike (my best wishes to him,
please get well soon) used the term "axis tilt" instead
of "pan", "linear" and "discreet" instead of "triangle" and
"square" and so on. all this makes users think they have something
fancy in their hands, but its just a unique name for something
quite common. maybe if dieter had chosen a different name for the
"pan" knob, lets say "waveform warp" or something like that,
then the a111/2 would probably look more attractive, but thats
not dieters style. 

the module layout of the prototype suggests a standard
subtractive patch, maybe thats also a reason why people are
not so enthusiastic about the features. thats not the
way how we should use the a111/2. all features should be
used directly for creation of new waveforms within the a111/2.
if you do this you will realise that the a111/2 can offer
a lot more different timbres than almost all other vco's.
of course you can do similar things with existing modules,
but it's the same with the cyclotron. you can replicate the
functions of that module too, but i don't think that
many users actually do this. having the features side by side
in one module sometimes makes a huge difference in how we use them.

the prototype had some quirks (f.e. different waveform levels),
but if dieter can sort these out the a111/2 will be a sure
shot for me.

best wishes

ingo

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I see - that explains it very well. Now I understand its usefulness. Thanks!

My concern was since this VCO was not going to be cheap (all those knobs!), that maybe it 
wasn't worth the duplication. But I can see how a VCO that can naturally and quickly create 
dynamic source waves can easily become useful in every patch.

BTW, I prefer Dieter's consistent and intuitive function naming style rather than those 
useless marketing gimmick names.


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" <synaptic_music@...> wrote:

>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "laryn91" <caymus91@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > > the a111/2 offers new possibilities unavailable on other vco's
> > 
> > I have to admit I'm one of those who were a bit dissapointed with
> the A111-2 features and 
> > example sounds.  Now I'm thinking maybe I'm missing something.
> > 
> > What exactly makes this VCO unique? Doesn't it seem like we can
> currently patch all it's 
> > features with current modules?
> 
> 
> some, but not all.
> 
> the a111/2 is capable of dynamically switching between
> waveforms within one wavecycle, resulting in new waveshapes.
> this switching can be controlled via cv, so the a111/2 can
> generate lots of dynamically changing timbres right on the
> oscillator level, without the need for additional modules.
> 
> the built-in vcf offers linear frequency modulation via
> the waveforms of the vco, which is veeery uncommon.
> 
> the a111/2 also has a built-in crossfader and a final vca.
> these goodies look quite "familiar", nothing fancy about
> it if you use these goodies as usual. but the fact that
> they are built-in gives you extra capabilities.
> with the crossfader you can create even more new dynamically
> changing waveforms (when using a wave of the vco at the morph cv).
> if you use the a111/2 as a modulator for fm, then the built-in
> vca is very handy.
> ok, especially the functions of the crossfader and vca can
> be replicated easily, but since these parts are already there
> you don't have to spend extra money on additional modules.
> other manufacturers give "mysterious" names to such module
> functions, just to force users to try a different and new
> approach in using the module. instantly the dual cyclotron
> from livewire comes into my mind. mike (my best wishes to him,
> please get well soon) used the term "axis tilt" instead
> of "pan", "linear" and "discreet" instead of "triangle" and
> "square" and so on. all this makes users think they have something
> fancy in their hands, but its just a unique name for something
> quite common. maybe if dieter had chosen a different name for the
> "pan" knob, lets say "waveform warp" or something like that,
> then the a111/2 would probably look more attractive, but thats
> not dieters style. 
> 
> the module layout of the prototype suggests a standard
> subtractive patch, maybe thats also a reason why people are
> not so enthusiastic about the features. thats not the
> way how we should use the a111/2. all features should be
> used directly for creation of new waveforms within the a111/2.
> if you do this you will realise that the a111/2 can offer
> a lot more different timbres than almost all other vco's.
> of course you can do similar things with existing modules,
> but it's the same with the cyclotron. you can replicate the
> functions of that module too, but i don't think that
> many users actually do this. having the features side by side
> in one module sometimes makes a huge difference in how we use them.
> 
> the prototype had some quirks (f.e. different waveform levels),
> but if dieter can sort these out the a111/2 will be a sure
> shot for me.
> 
> best wishes
> 
> ingo
>

The VCOs going away seem to be the major concern on this list but for  
me the removal of the VCF and VCA related modules is of concern more  
for me. I tend to use my rig more for sound modification than  
generation. I will miss the Multi-mode filter (whose demise was  
already announce before) and the VC-panner  and Mixer modules. I  
really wanted to get the VC mixer (with a quadrature VCO) and love the  
Multimode filter. I see the A-109 has the VC panning features and is  
not on the list to be removed so guess that circuit could be put in a  
stand-alone module. I have a few of the A-134 but wanted to add  
another for my 3rd cabinet (I use them as the last module in the path  
out of the modular).

Will there be alternative modules made for the A-123, A-134, and !-135?

-James

Hi James

> The VCOs going away seem to be the major concern on this list but for  
> me the removal of the VCF and VCA related modules is of concern more  
> for me. 
The CEM based A-106-6 will be (a more than) equivalent replacement, and 
the CA3080 based A-106-5 will be definitely better than the A-121. I 
always prefered the CA3080 based multimodefilters over the CEM based.



> already announce before) and the VC-panner  and Mixer modules.
All VCAs are no trouble. There will be functional equivalent 
replacements with different chips. The 3381 never has been a very great 
VCA. I won't cry many tears




> Will there be alternative modules made for the A-123, A-134, and !-135?
I don't know Dieters plans, but I am sure there will be replacements for 
the 134 and 135. The A-123 can be replaced by the A-106-6.

Florian

> BTW, I prefer Dieter's consistent and intuitive function naming
style rather than those 
> useless marketing gimmick names.


i wouldn't call it useless, both styles have their pros and cons.

best wishes

ingo