Doepfer

Seeing all these posts about vactrols, I have to raise my hand and ask
a few questions. 

1) Which modules are require to get nice 'wooden block' sounds? The
A-101-2? The A-101-9? A combination?
2) How are they used to create such an effect? 

As far as I can tell, the units are combined VCA and filters - that
alone seems to be a combination I can get using... a VCA and a filter.
I'm obviously missing something.

Oh, and happy new year!

Hello madrayken

> 1) Which modules are require to get nice 'wooden block' sounds? The
> A-101-2? The A-101-9? A combination?
Any resonating bandpass filter is usable for the classic woodenblock 
sound. Two are better than one, you also may use a resonating hi and 
lowpass in series at different cutoff frequencies will be good.

> 2) How are they used to create such an effect? 
Trigger used as audio signal(!) into audio input of the resonating 
filter. Thats it. A short trigger is required, to avoid a doubled sound.

Florian

just saw this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus

bongo with the new module from makenoise.

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
>
> just saw this...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus
> 
> bongo with the new module from makenoise.
>

Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds 
of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.

No, I guess it wouldn't need a vactrol to make the low-pass gate. But it 
would need to be a low pass gate, meaning that it would need to 
exponentially reduce the higher frequencies over time so you would get a 
lot of high frequency formants at the start of the note and it would 
dampen down to the resonant frequency at the end of the note.

Perhaps a similar trick could be done with an envelope generator, 
however, controlling either the cutoff frequency or the resonance or 
both of a low pass filter. Might sound similar but probably not the 
same. I think I've seen some low pass gate designs that don't use a 
vactrol to control the shape of the high frequency decay, although as 
far as components go, a vactrol (an optocoupler combining an LED and a 
photoresistor...it's the slow response time of the photoresistor that 
gives the characteristic slew of the vactrol) is pretty darn cheap. But 
that's DIY talk again...

The Make Noise low pass gate looks pretty good for what it is. We just 
gotta get that dude doing the demo to get rid of the vocal pitch 
shifter. Does he think he's James Earl Jones as Darth Vader or 
something? ;-)

D.

madrayken wrote:
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
>> just saw this...
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus
>>
>> bongo with the new module from makenoise.
>>
> 
> Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds 
> of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 145:
"Slow preparation, fast execution"

Seriously, there is NOTHING like the Vactrol sound. If there were 
another option, then Buchla, Wiard, Plan B, Doepfer and Make Noise would 
be using that option, as Vactrols are a royal pain. They are expensive, 
big, suffer limited availability and worst of all, they are one of those 
components that must be sorted for most audio applications. This is 
because the spec for certain characteristics is very loose.

Florian mentioned getting the wood-block sound with any resonating BP 
filter. I think he might have been writing of a different type of sound. 
I imagine a wood-block sound as a very short sound, that is resonant and 
yet does not ring much at all... Every block of wood I have ever hit 
sounded something like that... The electronic bongo is more of a ringing 
drum or plucked string type of sound, easily achieved with the Vactrol 
based Timbral Gate. There are NUMEROUS demos here, just scroll down and 
to the following pages of the thread:

http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2272&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

also some here:

http://www.makenoisemusic.com/QMMG.html

Tony Rolando
Make Noise
http://www.makenoisemusic.com

madrayken wrote:

>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
> >
> > just saw this...
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus 
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus>
> >
> > bongo with the new module from makenoise.
> >
>
> Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds
> of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.
>
>

Derek,  I promise the next video that I do will feature my own nasally, 
skinny white-boy voice :)

Tony


Derek Holzer wrote:

>
> No, I guess it wouldn't need a vactrol to make the low-pass gate. But it
> would need to be a low pass gate, meaning that it would need to
> exponentially reduce the higher frequencies over time so you would get a
> lot of high frequency formants at the start of the note and it would
> dampen down to the resonant frequency at the end of the note.
>
> Perhaps a similar trick could be done with an envelope generator,
> however, controlling either the cutoff frequency or the resonance or
> both of a low pass filter. Might sound similar but probably not the
> same. I think I've seen some low pass gate designs that don't use a
> vactrol to control the shape of the high frequency decay, although as
> far as components go, a vactrol (an optocoupler combining an LED and a
> photoresistor...it's the slow response time of the photoresistor that
> gives the characteristic slew of the vactrol) is pretty darn cheap. But
> that's DIY talk again...
>
> The Make Noise low pass gate looks pretty good for what it is. We just
> gotta get that dude doing the demo to get rid of the vocal pitch
> shifter. Does he think he's James Earl Jones as Darth Vader or
> something? ;-)
>
> D.
>
> madrayken wrote:
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
> >> just saw this...
> >>
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus 
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus>
> >>
> >> bongo with the new module from makenoise.
> >>
> >
> > Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds
> > of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.
>
> -- 
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl <http://www.umatic.nl> ::: 
> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista <http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista>
> ---Oblique Strategy # 145:
> "Slow preparation, fast execution"
>
>

I just finished writing that they are pretty darn cheap, but looking 
back at the supplier I use (Banzai in Berlin) I do see that commercial 
vactrols are pretty pricey compared with more common components like op 
amps and such. And yes, they did keep me on hold for weeks recently 
while they sourced some particular ones for some Tellun modules I'm 
building, so I wouldn't say they are rare, but they probably aren't easy 
to keep around when you are making runs of modules.

But one thing I like about vactrols is the materiality of them. The 
sound/effect comes from a direct physical characteristic of the 
component. I guess every analog component is like that in some way (slew 
rates of op amps, clipping of diodes, etc etc), but yes since the 
vactrol spec is pretty loose you really realize the limitations and 
properties of the material.

best!
d.

Tony Rolando wrote:
> Seriously, there is NOTHING like the Vactrol sound. If there were 
> another option, then Buchla, Wiard, Plan B, Doepfer and Make Noise would 
> be using that option, as Vactrols are a royal pain. They are expensive, 
> big, suffer limited availability and worst of all, they are one of those 
> components that must be sorted for most audio applications. This is 
> because the spec for certain characteristics is very loose.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 14:
"Ask people to work against their better judgement"

Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm  
functions?

Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already  
have 2x110 so far...

Please no sine-cult spamming :P

:)

Thanks

OK, hands up if ANYBODY in this group actually does sound like James 
Earl Jones! Or Darth Vader, for that matter...

Before and after treatments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBtr9bbPEc

Scrolling text isn't so bad either you know ;-)

But in any case, you're pitching to a largely (but by no means 
exclusively) nasal, skinny white-boy audience anyways, so why be ashamed?

happy new years!
d.

Tony Rolando wrote:
> Derek,  I promise the next video that I do will feature my own nasally, 
> skinny white-boy voice :)
> 
> Tony


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 152:
"Tape your mouth"

This video has bell tones created by two FM'd A-111's. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB9u4FtLqw&fmt=18




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..." <ChidrA_100@...>
wrote:

>
> Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm  
> functions?
> 
> Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already  
> have 2x110 so far...
> 
> Please no sine-cult spamming :P
> 
> :)
> 
> Thanks
>

Since the 111 is designed around the CEM 3340, it's a highly precise and stable VCO with 
glitch-free saw and triangle waves. Mine are tuned to track close to 5 octaves!  The only 
other modular VCO I know that matches 111's performance is the discontinued MOTM 
VCO.

For those who believe precision in analog means "sterile sound"(?), you can always 
modulate the 111 with a tiny amount of LP filtered noise to simulate pitch instability and 
get a fatter sound. You can preprocess the CV thru a VCA or simply misadjust the tracking 
trim pot to track poorly - if you believe wide tracking range is a bad thing.

I have 3 of them and recommend them.


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..." <ChidrA_100@...> wrote:

>
> Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm  
> functions?
> 
> Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already  
> have 2x110 so far...
> 
> Please no sine-cult spamming :P
> 
> :)
> 
> Thanks
>

Thanks for the link


On 07/01/2009, at 3:58 PM, Doug wrote:

> This video has bell tones created by two FM'd A-111's.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB9u4FtLqw&fmt=18
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..." <ChidrA_100@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco  
> and fm
> > functions?
> >
> > Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
> > have 2x110 so far...
> >
> > Please no sine-cult spamming :P
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the feedback, sounds good.


On 09/01/2009, at 4:38 AM, laryn91 wrote:

> Since the 111 is designed around the CEM 3340, it's a highly precise  
> and stable VCO with
> glitch-free saw and triangle waves. Mine are tuned to track close to  
> 5 octaves! The only
> other modular VCO I know that matches 111's performance is the  
> discontinued MOTM
> VCO.
>
> For those who believe precision in analog means "sterile sound"(?),  
> you can always
> modulate the 111 with a tiny amount of LP filtered noise to simulate  
> pitch instability and
> get a fatter sound. You can preprocess the CV thru a VCA or simply  
> misadjust the tracking
> trim pot to track poorly - if you believe wide tracking range is a  
> bad thing.
>
> I have 3 of them and recommend them.
>
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..."  
> <ChidrA_100@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco  
> and fm
> > functions?
> >
> > Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
> > have 2x110 so far...
> >
> > Please no sine-cult spamming :P
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]