Doepfer

> "but that
> said you can get a much cleaner BBD sound in other units"
> what other manufacturers would you suggest?

Not cheap or Eurorack but the Moogerfooger gives you an easy to use  
BBD sound with CV on the main and relative high fidelity in a longer  
delay range. The RS-120 Module previously talked about has a short  
delay range that lies entirely below the Moogerfooger.

I have a Blacet Time Machine (Frac format), it has some clean up  
circuitry for the BBD (not bypassable). It has bipolar feedback and  
lets you run the chip in more extreme ranges - like the Doepfer and  
unlike the Moogerfooger. It falls inbetween in terms of fidelity, the  
Moogerfooger sounds substantially cleaner.

While not a module and not VC controllable at all, the BBD based  
Behringer Vintage delay pedal with  300ms of delay. Costs under US  
$30. I keep thinking maybe one might be able to attach a vactrol  
controller to the pots. There is no onboard LFO.

Cwejman announced a quad line delay. Don't know if it will be analog.  
The individual CV and outs seem like a good choice for putting  
together ensemble effect

Oh and by the way, the ASystems RS-310 Reverb/Chorus uses a  
multitapped chip as does the A-188-2. It's a substantially cleaned up  
sound in comparison but gives you no real indepth control. Just a VC  
rate and wet/dry mix, feedback is manual and output is just mono.

nick kent

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I figured the RS-120 would be more about fidelity and the A-
188 would be more about experimentation. I guess it's horses for 
courses. I'll probably end up going for a A-188. 

Does anybody have experience with the the A-188-2. Would I be as well 
to get that rather than an A-188-1 with a set number of stages. 

Also does anybody have any suggestion for a good VCA. The A-131 VCA is 
good but can be a little noisy. 

thanks

Ken


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, zaum <zaum@...> wrote:
>
> > "but that
> > said you can get a much cleaner BBD sound in other units"
> > what other manufacturers would you suggest?
> 
> Not cheap or Eurorack but the Moogerfooger gives you an easy to use  
> BBD sound with CV on the main and relative high fidelity in a longer  
> delay range. The RS-120 Module previously talked about has a short  
> delay range that lies entirely below the Moogerfooger.
> 
> I have a Blacet Time Machine (Frac format), it has some clean up  
> circuitry for the BBD (not bypassable). It has bipolar feedback and  
> lets you run the chip in more extreme ranges - like the Doepfer and  
> unlike the Moogerfooger. It falls inbetween in terms of fidelity, 
the  
> Moogerfooger sounds substantially cleaner.
> 
> While not a module and not VC controllable at all, the BBD based  
> Behringer Vintage delay pedal with  300ms of delay. Costs under US  
> $30. I keep thinking maybe one might be able to attach a vactrol  
> controller to the pots. There is no onboard LFO.
> 
> Cwejman announced a quad line delay. Don't know if it will be 
analog.  
> The individual CV and outs seem like a good choice for putting  
> together ensemble effect
> 
> Oh and by the way, the ASystems RS-310 Reverb/Chorus uses a  
> multitapped chip as does the A-188-2. It's a substantially cleaned 
up  

> sound in comparison but gives you no real indepth control. Just a VC  
> rate and wet/dry mix, feedback is manual and output is just mono.
> 
> nick kent
>

Ken

I have a few of the old CEM A-131 modules and a couple of Analogue 
Systems RS-180. I felt that the A-131 was a bit weak in comparison, 
and would use the RS-180 as a preference - I'm not going to try and 
describe the sound difference too much, suffice to say that the 
RS-180 seems louder and cleaner, so much so that you can back off the 
CV-in without feeling like you're compromised by the noise floor. 
Having Log and Lin on one module is a really useful feature too.

Haven't tried the newer A-131 or the A-132-3 which gets praised quite 
a bit, but I still get some good use out of the old A-132.

sean

>Thanks for all the replies.
>
>I guess I figured the RS-120 would be more about fidelity and the A-
>188 would be more about experimentation. I guess it's horses for
>courses. I'll probably end up going for a A-188.
>
>Does anybody have experience with the the A-188-2. Would I be as well
>to get that rather than an A-188-1 with a set number of stages.
>
>Also does anybody have any suggestion for a good VCA. The A-131 VCA is
>good but can be a little noisy.
>
>thanks
>
>Ken
>
>--- In 
><mailto:Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com>Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, 
>zaum <zaum@...> wrote:
>>
>>  > "but that
>>  > said you can get a much cleaner BBD sound in other units"
>>  > what other manufacturers would you suggest?
>>
>>  Not cheap or Eurorack but the Moogerfooger gives you an easy to use
>>  BBD sound with CV on the main and relative high fidelity in a longer
>>  delay range. The RS-120 Module previously talked about has a short
>>  delay range that lies entirely below the Moogerfooger.
>>
>>  I have a Blacet Time Machine (Frac format), it has some clean up
>>  circuitry for the BBD (not bypassable). It has bipolar feedback and
>>  lets you run the chip in more extreme ranges - like the Doepfer and
>>  unlike the Moogerfooger. It falls inbetween in terms of fidelity,
>the
>>  Moogerfooger sounds substantially cleaner.
>>
>>  While not a module and not VC controllable at all, the BBD based
>>  Behringer Vintage delay pedal with 300ms of delay. Costs under US
>>  $30. I keep thinking maybe one might be able to attach a vactrol
>>  controller to the pots. There is no onboard LFO.
>>
>>  Cwejman announced a quad line delay. Don't know if it will be
>analog.
>>  The individual CV and outs seem like a good choice for putting
>>  together ensemble effect
>>
>>  Oh and by the way, the ASystems RS-310 Reverb/Chorus uses a
>>  multitapped chip as does the A-188-2. It's a substantially cleaned
>up
>>  sound in comparison but gives you no real indepth control. Just a VC
>>  rate and wet/dry mix, feedback is manual and output is just mono.
>>
>>  nick kent
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> I guess I figured the RS-120 would be more about fidelity and the A-
> 188 would be more about experimentation. I guess it's horses for 
> courses. I'll probably end up going for a A-188. 

Now you just have to pick how many stages you want (unless you want to
swap chips from time to time). The RS-120 is only available with
moderate short delays for better or worse. Depending on the chip with
Doepfer you can have delays more usable for one purpose and less for
another. I actually wouldn't mind a really short A-188-1 since I have
the 4096 one.
> 
> Does anybody have experience with the the A-188-2. Would I be as well 
> to get that rather than an A-188-1 with a set number of stages. 

It's not a replacement. To me it's another concept's implementation.
This time you can access the individual taps of a multitapped delay
chip, something quite uncommon if not unique in a comerical product.
The RS-310 is sort of Analogue System's earlier take, no deep access
at all beyond CV delay time, no stereo but substantially cleaner
sound. The A-188-2 is really interesting but it's even noisier and
harder to tame the artifacts on than the A-188-1



> 
> Also does anybody have any suggestion for a good VCA. The A-131 VCA is 
> good but can be a little noisy. 

What kind of noise? Just a high noise floor or something else like
signal leakage, hum? Maybe you've already examined it closely but it's
worth checking your gain and signal structure in general. It could be
you are offsetting it with the gain knob and don't realize it, or
maybe you have a low signal somewhere that shouldn't be so low. I've
really never encountered audible noise out of the VCA that I wasn't
expecting. On the other hand sometimes VCAs seem simpler than they are
to patch in. I know I've gotten results I didn't expect because of
knob offsets didn't notice. There all those old stories about the
broken Arp synth that was really the VCA offset slider confusing someone.

I would guess the cwejman is higher spec, though I only have the VM-1
where the VCA isn't isolated. The ASystems VCA is nice that it has
both linear and "log" inputs though ergonomically it has an offset
knob where you think the non-existent output level knob should be
which threw me a few times.

nick