Doepfer

Hello everybody,

I'm an idiot in VCA questions.
So, maybe somebody can tell me, if there are any audio quality differences between the A-131 exp. VCA and the A-132-3 dual VCA, please? 

As you know Dieter is on the NAMM. So I thought maybe someone of you technique freaks know it neither ... ;)

I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which VCA would you recommend for studio applications to connect the A-100 to the audio interface?

Thank you very much in advance!

So long,
Ollie

Hi Florian,

> > I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which VCA would you recommend for studio applications to connect the A-100 to the audio interface?

> All A100 VCAs are ok for average synth use, but are not comparable to 
> the VCAs used in professional compressors like THAT or SSM. This is 
> valid for the VCAs of most other makers of modular synths. I think 
> Cwejman uses THAT VCAs, but I am not sure.

Very interesting! 
You are right Cwejman uses THAT VCAs.

Ollie

Hi Ollie


> I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which VCA would you recommend for studio applications to connect the A-100 to the audio interface?
All A100 VCAs are ok for average synth use, but are not comparable to 
the VCAs used in professional compressors like THAT or SSM. This is 
valid for the VCAs of most other makers of modular synths. I think 
Cwejman uses THAT VCAs, but I am not sure.

Florian

Blacet uses the very high quality SSM VCAs (or the equivalent Cool Audio
clone).

>> > I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which VCA would
>> you recommend for studio applications to connect the A-100 to the
>> audio interface?
>
>> All A100 VCAs are ok for average synth use, but are not comparable to
>> the VCAs used in professional compressors like THAT or SSM. This is
>> valid for the VCAs of most other makers of modular synths. I think
>> Cwejman uses THAT VCAs, but I am not sure.
>
> Very interesting!
> You are right Cwejman uses THAT VCAs.
>
> Ollie
>
>

Florian

Could you tell me in what properties and roughly to what magnitude are the
Cwejman VCA's better than Doepfer's?  (i.e. attenuation, noise, response
speed, etc.)

Thanks,
Monroe

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Florian Anwander
<fanwander@mnet-online.de>wrote:

>
>
> Hi Ollie
>
>
> > I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which VCA would
> you recommend for studio applications to connect the A-100 to the audio
> interface?
> All A100 VCAs are ok for average synth use, but are not comparable to
> the VCAs used in professional compressors like THAT or SSM. This is
> valid for the VCAs of most other makers of modular synths. I think
> Cwejman uses THAT VCAs, but I am not sure.
>
> Florian
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Monroe

> Could you tell me in what properties and roughly to what magnitude are the
> Cwejman VCA's better than Doepfer's?  (i.e. attenuation, noise, response
> speed, etc.)
I don't have papers here and I do not intend to do research on this. 
Neither attenuation, noise, nor response are the big problem - but 
distortion around the through-zero region (which is basically the old 
A-class versus B-class problem).

You also have to take into account, that nearly every synth we know 
about uses for the VCA the same type of integrated circuit with the same 
problems. Whether these are CA3080, BA6610, LM13600, LM13700 or the 
Curtis CEMs or (lowcost-)SSMs does not really matter (where the CA3080 
is the worst under the aspect of distortion). Only a very very few 
modular systems of the first generations, and a few today modular 
systems use better VCAs. But the huge(!) mass of vintage and modern 
synthesizers (Moog, Oberheim, ARP, Roland, you name them all) uses the 
CA3080.

Doepfer used Curtis 3381/3381 in the first series of the A130/A131 and 
today CA3080.

Florian

> Hi Ollie
> 
> 
> > I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which 
> VCA would you recommend for studio applications to connect the 
> A-100 to the audio interface?
> All A100 VCAs are ok for average synth use, but are not comparable to 
> the VCAs used in professional compressors like THAT or SSM. This is 
> valid for the VCAs of most other makers of modular synths. I think 
> Cwejman uses THAT VCAs, but I am not sure.
> 
> Florian

These integrated circuits are used in our VCAs:

CEM3381: A-130 (old version), A-134-1, A-135
CEM3382: A-131 (old version)
CEM3360: A-132-3
SSM2164: A-132-4
CA3080 : A-130 (new version), A-131 (new version), A-132-1
LM13700: A-132-2, A-133, A-134-2
THAT2150: planned in new single VCA (probably A-131 third version)

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer (back from NAMM)

great!

got to get the new third version of A131 then.(but maybe give it another number and name it 'High-End VCA' module?)

plus, of course, the A132-4 Quad VCA!
Bravo Dieter, for your decision of including good quality vca's (SSM, THAT) in the new Doepfer modules!


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist

[Doepfer_a100] group owner

www. parallel - worlds - music. com

www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic

www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic

www. myspace. com/ memorygeist

www. DiN. org. uk

www. musicamaximamagnetica. com

www. vu-us. com

www. shimarecords. co. uk

--- On Mon, 1/25/10, yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] VCA quality question
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 9:02 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      > Hi Ollie

> 

> 

> > I've seen that some of you uses the A-100 in a studio. Which 

> VCA would you recommend for studio applications to connect the 

> A-100 to the audio interface?

> All A100 VCAs are ok for average synth use, but are not comparable to 

> the VCAs used in professional compressors like THAT or SSM. This is 

> valid for the VCAs of most other makers of modular synths. I think 

> Cwejman uses THAT VCAs, but I am not sure.

> 

> Florian



These integrated circuits are used in our VCAs:



CEM3381: A-130 (old version), A-134-1, A-135

CEM3382: A-131 (old version)

CEM3360: A-132-3

SSM2164: A-132-4

CA3080 : A-130 (new version), A-131 (new version), A-132-1

LM13700: A-132-2, A-133, A-134-2

THAT2150: planned in new single VCA (probably A-131 third version)



Best wishes

Dieter Doepfer (back from NAMM)



    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> THAT2150: planned in new single VCA (probably A-131 third version)


I also very appreciate this decision! I would buy one for sure.
Do you perhaps already know when this new VCA would be available?

Just because I'm interested in electronics:
Why have you decided to use the THAT2150 (which is labeled as obsolete on the THAT webpage) and not the THAT2181 like Cwejman VCAs? Just out of curiosity ... :)

All the best,
Ollie

> > THAT2150: planned in new single VCA (probably A-131 third version)
>
>
> I also very appreciate this decision! I would buy one for sure.
> Do you perhaps already know when this new VCA would be available?

We have a lot of other modules that have to be finished earlier (e.g. the
TKB, A-132-4 Quad VCA, A-143-4 Quad VCLFO/VCO, A-190-3 poly CV/Gate, A-192-2
CV/Gate-to-Midi/USB, maybe the pitch to CV/Midi/USB interface) and some
other modules I have not yet mentioned (Quad VCO with sawtooth core, Quad
VCADSR, Quad low-cost-VCFLO with only one control and no tempco, Dual VC
Slope Generator similar to the serge but with different/additional features,
VCLFO with VC delay time and some more).

> Just because I'm interested in electronics:
> Why have you decided to use the THAT2150 (which is labeled as obsolete on
the THAT webpage)

Our prototype uses the 2150. Maybe we will use another circuit in the final
module.

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

many great modules coming....!


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist

[Doepfer_a100] group owner

www. parallel - worlds - music. com

www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic

www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic

www. myspace. com/ memorygeist

www. DiN. org. uk

www. musicamaximamagnetica. com

www. vu-us. com

www. shimarecords. co. uk

--- On Tue, 1/26/10, yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: AW: [Doepfer_a100] VCA quality question
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 12:13 PM







 



  


    
      
      
      > > THAT2150: planned in new single VCA (probably A-131 third version)

>

>

> I also very appreciate this decision! I would buy one for sure.

> Do you perhaps already know when this new VCA would be available?



We have a lot of other modules that have to be finished earlier (e.g. the

TKB, A-132-4 Quad VCA, A-143-4 Quad VCLFO/VCO, A-190-3 poly CV/Gate, A-192-2

CV/Gate-to-Midi/ USB, maybe the pitch to CV/Midi/USB interface) and some

other modules I have not yet mentioned (Quad VCO with sawtooth core, Quad

VCADSR, Quad low-cost-VCFLO with only one control and no tempco, Dual VC

Slope Generator similar to the serge but with different/additiona l features,

VCLFO with VC delay time and some more).



> Just because I'm interested in electronics:

> Why have you decided to use the THAT2150 (which is labeled as obsolete on

the THAT webpage)



Our prototype uses the 2150. Maybe we will use another circuit in the final

module.



Best wishes

Dieter Doepfer





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>> THAT2150: planned in new single VCA (probably A-131 third version)
>> 
>> 
>> I also very appreciate this decision! I would buy one for sure.
>> Do you perhaps already know when this new VCA would be available?
> 
> We have a lot of other modules that have to be finished earlier (e.g. the
> TKB, A-132-4 Quad VCA, A-143-4 Quad VCLFO/VCO, A-190-3 poly CV/Gate, A-192-2
> CV/Gate-to-Midi/USB, maybe the pitch to CV/Midi/USB interface) and some
> other modules I have not yet mentioned (Quad VCO with sawtooth core, Quad
> VCADSR, Quad low-cost-VCFLO with only one control and no tempco, Dual VC
> Slope Generator similar to the serge but with different/additional features,
> VCLFO with VC delay time and some more).

That's enlightening enough. In addition to assemble the all the modules you have mentioned, I think one who is not firm with analog electronics can't imagine how much time it takes to fine adjust all those marginally parameters in a circuit, that it work in a useable range.

Yesterday evening it came to me mind, that your DIY synth is educational genius strike. 
All the customers who are complaining about the high prizes of analog synthesizers have now the possibility to "learn" why hardware is that expansive. It's not the ICs for the synth, it's the time you need for fine adjustments and mainly the costs for the cases, pots, knobs, switches, and printing, etc.

Cheers,
Ollie