Doepfer

Hi list
I had a look at this hidden link for prospective A164 manual gate 
module. It is very interresting. I used to kind of emulate this using 
the theremins from my A100 but this module would definetely be a very 
good tool for easy modulation control and live operations of A100.
Yes, yes, yes we need such module, please.
Alexandre

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Bilinger" <x2wm@h...> wrote:
> Hi list
> I had a look at this hidden link for prospective A164 manual gate 

Did I miss the post of the hidden
link?

Ethan

Look here:

http://www.doepfer.de/a164.htm

Regards,
Kevin

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ethanzer0" <ethanzer0@y...> 
wrote:

> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Bilinger" <x2wm@h...> wrote:
> > Hi list
> > I had a look at this hidden link for prospective A164 manual gate 
> 
> Did I miss the post of the hidden
> link?
> 
> Ethan

i'm happy w the a177 footswitch controller and dual gate pedals.  seems to 
me to be more useful since they are foot-operated.  no level control ..but don't 
think i've ever been in a situation where i need it.  

which brings the question, when is it necessary to have gate level control ?  
 
psm



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "klamb000" <lamb@c...> wrote:

> Look here:
> 
> http://www.doepfer.de/a164.htm
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ethanzer0" <ethanzer0@y...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Bilinger" <x2wm@h...> wrote:
> > > Hi list
> > > I had a look at this hidden link for prospective A164 manual gate 
> > 
> > Did I miss the post of the hidden
> > link?
> > 
> > Ethan

This module featured as a DIY project in the UK owners club 
magazine, very simple to make and cheap.
I made one and it does come in use from time to time.


John





--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "klamb000" <lamb@c...> wrote:
> Look here:
> 
> http://www.doepfer.de/a164.htm
> 
> Regards,
> Kevin
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "ethanzer0" <ethanzer0@y...> 
> wrote:
> > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Bilinger" <x2wm@h...> 
wrote:
> > > Hi list
> > > I had a look at this hidden link for prospective A164 manual 
gate 

> > 
> > Did I miss the post of the hidden
> > link?
> > 
> > Ethan

hello julian,

you don't like the vocoder modules? i use a complete set
of a129-modules and i think they sound fabulous.
i use them with all kinds of sounds (not only vocals),
but i admit that sometimes a pretty large patch is needed
to make it sound really good.

maybe i know a person who would buy your a129-modules,
i'll ask him and give you a note on monday, if he should
show some interest.

best wishes

ingo



--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Julian" <julian@2...> wrote:
> hi there,
> 
> ive been thinign about it, and i suspect theres modules thatlld be 
of more
> use to me that the vocoder.  i wonder if anyone would like to do a 
mutually

> agreable swap, for other modules of the sort of retail price?
> 
> just if anyone was thininking the same as me, and had their eye on a
> vocoder, i guess...
> 
> cheers, julian

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Julian" <julian@2...> wrote:
> 
> > you don't like the vocoder modules? i use a complete set
> > of a129-modules and i think they sound fabulous.
> 
> i only have the 129 1/2 modules.  i suspect that id have to look at 
getting
> more of the series to find them as usefull as they should be.  most 
of the
> time they just spend patched into one anohther, and i dont find 
output mega
> impressive in this way.  someone said that the voiced unvoiced 
module (i
> think it was that anyway) is pretty much a necessity to bring the 
module to
> life.  Would you agree with that?  And what would you suggest for 
just the
> 192 1/2 by itself?  Or do i have to get additional 129 modules to 
see it
> shine?

i find that the a129/3 attenuators are a "must". sometimes it is
necessary to have control over the amplitudes of the separate
filterbands to prevent distortions. this really makes the difference,
because one single distorted band can ruin the whole patch.
the a129/4 is also great. i don't use the a129/5 voiced/unvoiced
very often, can't tell much about it. seems to be ok, but i tend
to use the detector only, together with two a130 vca's for blending
the inputs smoothly rather than hard-switching them with the a129/5. 
sometimes i use lots of modules to route/modify the vocoder inputs
and the final vocoded output, but as they differ from patch to
patch i can't give a suggestion here.
an additional "pause stuffing" patch can also give good results,
you only need an a131, a175, a138 and of course the rest
of the necessary modules (a129/1, a129/2, a119).


> > maybe i know a person who would buy your a129-modules,
> 
> im not so interested in cash.  it tends to just dissapear too 
easy.. id
> rather keep it in doepfer modules, and selling 2nd hand and then 
buying new
> seems like a bad idea... id rather swap 2nd hand for 2nd hand.. 
that way its
> just a trade and evreyone keeps the same cash value, but just 
increases the
> utility value (for them) of their system.

ok, i will ask him.

best wishes

ingo

> an additional "pause stuffing" patch can also give good results,
> you only need an a131, a175, a138 and of course the rest
> of the necessary modules (a129/1, a129/2, a119).

hello julian,

i uploaded a jpg with a simple "pause stuffing" patch
to the files section. this is only a quick one without
detailed descriptions.

best wishes

ingo

hi there,

ive been thinign about it, and i suspect theres modules thatlld be of more
use to me that the vocoder.  i wonder if anyone would like to do a mutually
agreable swap, for other modules of the sort of retail price?

just if anyone was thininking the same as me, and had their eye on a
vocoder, i guess...

cheers, julian

> you don't like the vocoder modules? i use a complete set
> of a129-modules and i think they sound fabulous.

i only have the 129 1/2 modules.  i suspect that id have to look at getting
more of the series to find them as usefull as they should be.  most of the
time they just spend patched into one anohther, and i dont find output mega
impressive in this way.  someone said that the voiced unvoiced module (i
think it was that anyway) is pretty much a necessity to bring the module to
life.  Would you agree with that?  And what would you suggest for just the
192 1/2 by itself?  Or do i have to get additional 129 modules to see it
shine?

> maybe i know a person who would buy your a129-modules,

im not so interested in cash.  it tends to just dissapear too easy.. id
rather keep it in doepfer modules, and selling 2nd hand and then buying new
seems like a bad idea... id rather swap 2nd hand for 2nd hand.. that way its
just a trade and evreyone keeps the same cash value, but just increases the
utility value (for them) of their system.

>
> ingo

julian

hallo
sorry for this message

I look for sombody who would like to exchange with me
I have A-138a mixer(linear) which I would like to change to A-138b (logarithmic)
is there anybody interested??

best
robert



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander 
<Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> Hi selfoscillate 
> 
> > i find that the a129/3 attenuators are a "must". sometimes it is
> > necessary to have control over the amplitudes of the separate
> > filterbands to prevent distortions. 
> I feed the modulator signal over a compressor before I send it to 
the 129/1
> (the analysis section). For non-speech signals the compressor may 
be built
> with the Ext.Signal Input, Inverter, Slewlimiter and VCA. For 
speech I use
> my external tube compressor.
> 
> Florian

hello florian,

yes, same with me, i forgot to mention that.
i often use compressors for one or even both the
input signals of the vocoder.
a very important point.

ingo

Compression is important, but let's not forget EQ on the modulator.  
Lots and LOTS of EQ.

Regards,
Kevin

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate" 
<synaptic_music@y...> wrote:

> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander 
> <Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> > Hi selfoscillate 
> > 
> > > i find that the a129/3 attenuators are a "must". sometimes it is
> > > necessary to have control over the amplitudes of the separate
> > > filterbands to prevent distortions. 
> > I feed the modulator signal over a compressor before I send it to 
> the 129/1
> > (the analysis section). For non-speech signals the compressor may 
> be built
> > with the Ext.Signal Input, Inverter, Slewlimiter and VCA. For 
> speech I use
> > my external tube compressor.
> > 
> > Florian
> 
> hello florian,
> 
> yes, same with me, i forgot to mention that.
> i often use compressors for one or even both the
> input signals of the vocoder.
> a very important point.
> 
> ingo

Hi selfoscillate 

> i find that the a129/3 attenuators are a "must". sometimes it is
> necessary to have control over the amplitudes of the separate
> filterbands to prevent distortions. 
I feed the modulator signal over a compressor before I send it to the 129/1
(the analysis section). For non-speech signals the compressor may be built
with the Ext.Signal Input, Inverter, Slewlimiter and VCA. For speech I use
my external tube compressor.

Florian

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <
Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> For non-speech signals the compressor may be built
> with the Ext.Signal Input, Inverter, Slewlimiter and VCA. For speech I use
> my external tube compressor.

How would you patch up a compressor anyway?  I was trying to figure this out 
a while back with no success.  I use the Ext. Signal Input to bring in the signal 
and create a gate when the signal reaches a certain threshold.  I just can't 
figure out the gain reduction part.  I guess that's where the inverter comes in?  
Do I switch the inverted ouput of the envelope follower into the vca level when 
the signal goes above the threshold?  Where does the slew come in?

Then, once you have a basic compressor patch are there any interesting 
variations you can create that do things you can't do with a traditional 
compressor?

I have tried to create a patch that does something like the transient designer
http://www.soundperformancelab.com/Transient_Designer/TechTalkE.html
but I wasn't achieving any noticable effects.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

I've put a diagram of a simple limiter patch in the Files section.    
It's called "Variable_Limiter.JPG", and the link is:

http://a4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/gJT3PvVTpNCFtmyw6buRx6NcZdapl4j9TY1fDjSgk
ezQUqbjGYTHbhef4OiTRZHeNeARPg10W2dSRbOYTtu_SbGzgEM/variable_limiter.jp
g

Basically, the patch uses the lower half of the A170 Slew Limiter, 
which allows for variable attack and release times.  Otherwise, it's 
a fairly straightforward affair. Just make sure you don't overload 
the A119, and tweak gently until you get the feel of how this one 
works.

Regards,
Kevin

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "pela_gius" <pela_gius@h...> 
wrote:
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander <
> Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> > For non-speech signals the compressor may be built
> > with the Ext.Signal Input, Inverter, Slewlimiter and VCA. For 
speech I use
> > my external tube compressor.
> 
> How would you patch up a compressor anyway?  I was trying to figure 
this out 
> a while back with no success.  I use the Ext. Signal Input to bring 
in the signal 
> and create a gate when the signal reaches a certain threshold.  I 
just can't 
> figure out the gain reduction part.  I guess that's where the 
inverter comes in?  
> Do I switch the inverted ouput of the envelope follower into the 
vca level when 
> the signal goes above the threshold?  Where does the slew come in?
> 
> Then, once you have a basic compressor patch are there any 
interesting 
> variations you can create that do things you can't do with a 
traditional 
> compressor?
> 
> I have tried to create a patch that does something like the 
transient designer

> http://www.soundperformancelab.com/Transient_Designer/TechTalkE.html
> but I wasn't achieving any noticable effects.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.

Florian,

The only reason for the A176 and mixer is to simulate compression 
(i.e. giving a dynamic floor), and to add one more level of control.  
Also, by adding the two modules and using the lower half of the A170, 
variable attack and release times can be achieved, which gives hard 
and soft knee effects.

That said, there's no reason at all to include the A176 and mixer if 
all one wants is compression.

Nice idea on the short AD.

Regards,
Kevin


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander 
<Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> Hi Kevin (and pelagius)
> 
> 
> > Basically, the patch uses the lower half of the A170 Slew Limiter,
> > which allows for variable attack and release times.  Otherwise, 
it's
> > a fairly straightforward affair. Just make sure you don't overload
> > the A119, and tweak gently until you get the feel of how this one
> > works.
> Yes this is also my setup for the limiter, the only reduction for 
would be:
> The Voltage Source and the Mixer are not required, since you can 
use the
> "Gain" parameter of the VCA as offset CV (turned up to 10).
> 
> A nice addition is a short AD-Envelope, that is triggered by the 
Gate Out
> of the ExtIn and feeds the VCA in non inverted mode. It provides 
a "kick"
> in the start of the sound. But this is no longer a compression, but 
a

> dynamic FX.
> 
> 
> Florian

Correction:

> That said, there's no reason at all to include the A176 and mixer 
> if all one wants is compression.

I meant to say "limiting".  Sorry.

Regards,
Kevin

Hi Kevin (and pelagius)


> Basically, the patch uses the lower half of the A170 Slew Limiter,
> which allows for variable attack and release times.  Otherwise, it's
> a fairly straightforward affair. Just make sure you don't overload
> the A119, and tweak gently until you get the feel of how this one
> works.
Yes this is also my setup for the limiter, the only reduction for would be:
The Voltage Source and the Mixer are not required, since you can use the
"Gain" parameter of the VCA as offset CV (turned up to 10).

A nice addition is a short AD-Envelope, that is triggered by the Gate Out
of the ExtIn and feeds the VCA in non inverted mode. It provides a "kick"
in the start of the sound. But this is no longer a compression, but a
dynamic FX.


Florian

> > That said, there's no reason at all to include the A176 and mixer
> > if all one wants is compression.
I understood you.

Very nice is to combine the compressor with an Expander controlled by the
same Signal and to feed the both VCAs with a frequency split signal

ExtIn CV-out -> Slewlimiter -> Multiple --> Inv -> VCA---Mix---> Out
   ^                                    \--> VCA--- ^ ---/
   |                                          ^     |
   |                                          |     |      
  Audio-------Multimode Filter Hipass---------/     |
                               Lopass---------------/


Florian

Thanks, Florian and Kevin, for the discussion. I've been "getting my 
feet wet" with a MAM VF11 vocoder, and your advice to use compression 
made a dramatic improvement for me.

Next A100 cabinet will definitely have a vocoder susbsystem.

Joe

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Florian Anwander 
<Florian.Anwander@c...> wrote:
> 
> > > That said, there's no reason at all to include the A176 and 
mixer
> > > if all one wants is compression.
> I understood you.
> 
> Very nice is to combine the compressor with an Expander controlled 
by the

> same Signal and to feed the both VCAs with a frequency split signal
> 
> ExtIn CV-out -> Slewlimiter -> Multiple --> Inv -> VCA---Mix---> Out
>    ^                                    \--> VCA--- ^ ---/
>    |                                          ^     |
>    |                                          |     |      
>   Audio-------Multimode Filter Hipass---------/     |
>                                Lopass---------------/
> 
> 
> Florian

Thanks Florian and Kevin for the responses, it makes a little more sense to 
me now.  I've been sick a couple of days so I'm just catching up with this and 
I'll give it a try tonight.  I don't have an inverter but I'm going to try to trigger an 
EG instead to give an acoustic instrument a new envelope so I'll just use the 
inverted out of the EG.  As I mentioned before I'm trying to experiment with the 
concept behind the Transient Designer which is supposed to be a fun piece of 
gear.

Regarding the vocoder, I find it's also quite useful as an alternate filter even 
when you don't want full-blown talking robot effects.  For example, patching 
an oscillating vcf into the speech input lets you create filter sweeps that have 
some of the character of the vcf but are subtly different as you can hear the 
bands of the vocoder.