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trigger seq / polyrhythms

trigger seq / polyrhythms

2002-02-11 by duffnuff

speaking of trig seq's...(florian's ideas look great, btw)
there's something i've been trying to work out how to do lately 
and i wonder if any existing sequencers or groups of modules 
are capable of doing it.  

say, for a trig seq w 2 or more rows.. can one row be, for lack of a 
better word,  'slaved' to another so the loop cycle time of each 
row is the same length despite each row having different 
numbers of steps?  

i guess one way to do it would be to have a seq that derives its 
step tempo by  CYCLING once per trigger  rather than STEPPING 
once per trigger.  so to get your beat divisions each row would 
need a simple clock divider to determine step duration within 
that cycle, and ideally could be automatically calculated by the # 
of steps in that row which are 'on', or by the # of steps between 
the first/last 'on' trigger for that row. 

that way you could have syncopated 1/2 note triplets under a 
4beat and even rest on the 2 of the triplet row.  (this 3 against 2 
example can actually be done already on a single a155 using 2 
rows w 6 steps each, accenting the 1&4 on one row and the 1, 3, 
5  on the other, but anything requiring more complicated 
subdivisions is impossible).  

i think this would be a great 'mode' for a trig seq if nothing else.

also, now that i think about it, i guess what i'm really wishing for 
is a clock divider that can deal with divisions beyond the straight 
2, 4, 8, 16, etc.  

if regelwerk or schaltwerk can do this, i want one! 

rhythmically challenged,
duff

Re: [Doepfer_a100] trigger seq / polyrhythms

2002-02-12 by Florian Anwander

Hi duffnuff 

> say, for a trig seq w 2 or more rows.. can one row be, for lack of a
> better word,  'slaved' to another so the loop cycle time of each
> row is the same length despite each row having different
> numbers of steps?
There are two possibilities:
1.) The digital one needs "simple" mathematics:
You need the lowest common denominator of both clock rates as master-clock
and have to divide this master clock down to the needed individuall values.

Example: you want a 8 step versus 7 step sequence with tempo 120. The
lowest common denominator of 7 and 8 is 56. So you need a clock which runs
with 56 beats per bar.

2.) The "analogue" version uses a phase locked loop (PLL - yeah! again this
funny module): One sequence is running clocked by any wished clock, the
other sequence is clocked by the oscillator of the PLL. The PLL compares
the reset signals of the sequencer counters; if there is a difference it
speeds down or speeds up the frequency of the oscillator. Of course this
will take some time, lets say 20 to 30 cycles.

Kind regards, Florian

PS: You see, why I'd like to have a PLL-Module ;-)
-- 
Florian Anwander                  |ConSol*  HP-Support
Tel.   +49.89.45841-133           |Consulting&Solutions Software GmbH
Fax    +49.89.45841-139           |Franziskanerstr. 38, D-81669 München
email: florian.anwander@consol.de |http://www.consol.de

Re: [Doepfer_a100] trigger seq / polyrhythms

2002-02-12 by bakis Sirros

--- duffnuff <duffnuff@hotmail.com> wrote:
> also, now that i think about it, i guess what i'm
> really wishing for 
> is a clock divider that can deal with divisions
> beyond the straight 
> 2, 4, 8, 16, etc.  
> 
> if regelwerk or schaltwerk can do this, i want one! 

hi duff,
i think that this division can be done using the a163
vc-divider...??i have one but i haven't tried for
sub-audio signals...i really hope that this can be
done,though...
also,all your other ideas are really interesting!!
synthfreak





=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

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Re: trigger seq / polyrhythms

2002-02-12 by duffnuff

thanks florian and synthfreak for your thoughts on lining up these 
odd stepped rhythms.   a PLL makes sense, i'm not sure it 
would help me directly with this polyrhythm issue but now that i 
have a better understanding of PLL i can see that it would be 
very useful in similar applications (been to the poll already:).  and 
using a freq divider did cross my mind but knowing how finicky 
the a113 can be (in regard to what types of waves it can divide), i 
figured a more advanced clock divider would be necesary, not a 
freq divider, but i could be wrong.   

i guess the thing i'm really after to is to be able to freely change 
beat divisions of a single rhythmic component on the fly and 
keep any accidental 'wrong' patterns locked while it's running.   
and without having to break out the slide rule every few bars.  
perhaps this is too much to ask for w an all analogue rig..so 
guess i'll settle for doing this in reaktor though not nearly as 
appealing as mixing all those cv's.


-duff

RE: [Doepfer_a100] trigger seq / polyrhythms

2002-02-12 by thepeak

Hello all,

The SCHALTWERK is perfectly capable of performing the individual division of
track-based timing and with the addition of delayed gate signals.  It is to
my knowledge (and I would appreciate any feedback regarding this issue) not
possible to write multiple patterns without copying them to a new “master”
pattern.

Regards

T
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: bakis Sirros [mailto:synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:50 PM
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] trigger seq / polyrhythms


--- duffnuff <duffnuff@hotmail.com> wrote:
> also, now that i think about it, i guess what i'm
> really wishing for
> is a clock divider that can deal with divisions
> beyond the straight
> 2, 4, 8, 16, etc.
>
> if regelwerk or schaltwerk can do this, i want one!

hi duff,
i think that this division can be done using the a163
vc-divider...??i have one but i haven't tried for
sub-audio signals...i really hope that this can be
done,though...
also,all your other ideas are really interesting!!
synthfreak





=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

__________________________________________________
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