Doepfer

hi list,
here is the answer from dieter:


--- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:
> From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@doepfer.de>
> To: "bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
> CC: "Chris Assall" <software@doepfer.de>
> Subject: AW: let's end the shaltwerk
> discussion,O.K.??
> Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:09:16 +0100
>
> 
> "Dear Bakis,
> 
> I have read hastily the discussion about the
> Schaltwerk update. I would have
> answered in detail but at the moment the preparation
> of the music fair is much
> more important.
> 
> There are some incorrect claims in these messages
> and the writers do not know
> some of the technical details that prevented us from
> an hardware/software
> update. The processor used in the
> Schaltwerk/Regelwerk is a SAB80C535 and has
> 64kB memory for program and 64kB memory for data
> (the Schaltwerk and Regelwerk
> development started in 1994/95 and at this time the
> 80C535 was a
> state-of-the-art microcontroller). One cannot simply
> add more memory (of course
> we know that memory is cheap now) as the processor
> is not able to handle the
> bigger memory. Bank switching of memory id not
> possible as the emulators
> (required for program design) do not support bank
> switching. Changing to another
> processor means that we have to buy all the
> development tools (assembler,
> C-compiler, linker and  especiall the emulator) for
> the new processor. This is
> an investment in the range of 25000 Euro ! We have
> to think carefully about such
> an investment as it has to pay.
> 
> Anyway - we think about the general use of a new and
> more powerful processor.
> But this consideration has to take into
> consideration not only the
> Schaltwerk/Regelwerk but other devices too as the
> purchase price for the
> development tools is far too much only for a
> Schaltwerk/Regelwerk update. In
> spring 2002 we will decide which new processor will
> be used. We have
> short-listed some Fujitsu, Mitsubishi or Toshiba
> 16-Bit microcontrollers with
> flash memory. And possibly we will develop a
> completely new basic board for
> Schaltwerk and Regelwerk as soon as we (i.e.
> Christian Assall in the first
> place) have sufficient experience with this new
> processor. I cannot guarantee
> this but you can be sure that we do our best to keep
> our customers satisfied.
> All attempts to "tune" the 80C535 processor failed
> (e.g. more memory, higher
> speed). The only solution is to make a "cut" and
> change to a completely new
> processor. But this means that nearly the complete
> (!!!) software has to be
> written new as the processor languages are not
> compatible. I'm sure that the
> complaining customer has no idea about the efforts
> that are necessary to do
> this. Believe me: if there would be an easy way to
> offer an update for
> Schaltwerk or Regelwerk we would have done this !
> 
> In addition I agree that the forum was establihed fo
> A-100 and not for
> Schaltwerk/Regelwerk (these were developed before
> the A-100 so that it is
> nonsense to call them A-100 extensions).
> 
> For me it is completely confusing if there are polls
> and suggestions for new
> modules on one hand and the request on the other
> hand to stop the development of
> new modules but to make an Schaltwerk update instead
> of it.
> 
> And concerning the blue LEDs: this was not our idea
> ! We offer the devices with
> blue LEDs not because we think this is a technical
> innovation but because many
> customers asked for (like you). I think the
> complaining customer really does not
> know the score. It takes definitely no development
> time to change red LEDs into
> blue ones. If the "development time" required for
> the blue LEDs would be the
> same as for a Schaltwerk/Regelwerk update of course
> we would have preferred the
> update!
> 
> Please don't be annoyed if I cannot answer every
> message in detail but we are in
> the "hot phase" for the Frankfurt fair (the complete
> stand and all devices,
> prospectus, flyers, signs, lab coats, lightning,
> mixers, computers, main voltage
> distributors, amplifiers, loudspeakers, tables,
> tools, measuring equipment and
> and and ... have to be prepared)."
> 
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
> Doepfer Musikelektronik GmbH
> http://www.doepfer.de
> email: hardware@doepfer.de
 
 

 O.K!!!NOW I HOPE THIS MATTER WILL COME TO AN END...
 synthfreak

 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 


=====
synthfreak(parallel worlds)
athens-greece
[Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
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>  O.K!!!NOW I HOPE THIS MATTER WILL COME TO AN END...

I don't understand. Dieter is talking seriously about selecting a new 
processor this spring, and making an entirely new main board for the 
Schaltwerk/Regelwerk. I find this terribly exciting!

Is the problem that these step sequencers are too far removed from the 
A100 to discuss desireable upgrades here, as we would with the ribbon 
controller or other non-A100 products?

If so, would there be enough interest in a 
Schaltwerk/Regelwerk/MAQ16/3 forum if I created one? I'm not a "friend 
of the firm", so it would be more of an independent, user-oriented 
forum.

Joe

hi joe, we are the vocal lot of the bunch. the truth of the matter is 
that most people sit on the fence and say or do nothing. if you were 
to start such a group, i would definitely join. but the sad truth is 
that the same guys that talked about it on the ez board would join 
and we would have duplicated the same posts again on a new group. the 
plus side of having a group here on yahoo is the fact that you can 
receive the posts via email, which you can't do with the ez board 
forum, so you don't have to wasteyour time checking the site to see 
if some new posts are up.

i think doepfer should keep us informed as to when they plan on 
seriously rolling out the new cpu. when that happens, the group 
should start then, so we don't waste our time discussing the same 
issues.by the way, 25,000 euros seems to be a lot to get the ball 
rolling for the developement tools to start. i have a friend who does 
work with single embedded micro's and it cost him less than $400 us 
for the whole kit. mind probably mot the same spec, but still seems 
pricey.

  i started the whole the Schaltwerk disscussion because it was being 
ignored. finally we got some kind a more precise answer.the question 
on whether the memory of the schaltwerk is 85% or 98% full still 
remains unanswered. anyhow let's keep our fingers crossed, that is 
the best we hope for. for what ever you want to do about a group, i  
will assist in the best way i can. go for it!
regards,
RM




-- In Doepfer_a100@y..., "buechlerjoe" <buechlerjoe@t...> wrote:
> >  O.K!!!NOW I HOPE THIS MATTER WILL COME TO AN END...
> 
> I don't understand. Dieter is talking seriously about selecting a 
new 
> processor this spring, and making an entirely new main board for 
the 
> Schaltwerk/Regelwerk. I find this terribly exciting!
> 
> Is the problem that these step sequencers are too far removed from 
the 
> A100 to discuss desireable upgrades here, as we would with the 
ribbon 
> controller or other non-A100 products?
> 
> If so, would there be enough interest in a 
> Schaltwerk/Regelwerk/MAQ16/3 forum if I created one? I'm not 
a "friend 

> of the firm", so it would be more of an independent, user-oriented 
> forum.
> 
> Joe

First of all i cannot say how glad I am after these years to finally get
some real answers to how the original designs could be improoved and that
they have given it some thought atleast.

But the bottom line is that the issue will not end until the day Doepfer
actually presents a pricetag and a possible releasedate for an upgrade. I am
sure they know that. As for any inaccurracies regarding possible ways to
upgrade and costs of developement I can admit some degree of ingorance here,
but still I have a hard time seeing what it would take serious upgrades to
split notes and relatively simple maths like that. Still I would rather pay
for a significant upgrade that janking around with a obviously pretty used
up memory/cpu.

I could could consider joining a regelwerk/shaltwerk forum if I did indeed
had anything to discuss about it as how to use it and such. But since I
don't find it useful and that the attention is given to the A100 I don't see
much point. We all know this storm will blow from time to time... and I
expect it is fading now.

/Andreas



----- Original Message -----
From: "bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
To: "Doepfer_a100 group" <doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 AM
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Fwd: AW: let's end the shaltwerk
discussion,O.K.??(doepfer's answer!!!)

> hi list,
> here is the answer from dieter:
>
>
> --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@doepfer.de> wrote:
> > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@doepfer.de>
> > To: "bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com>
> > CC: "Chris Assall" <software@doepfer.de>
> > Subject: AW: let's end the shaltwerk
> > discussion,O.K.??
> > Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:09:16 +0100
> >
> >
> > "Dear Bakis,
> >
> > I have read hastily the discussion about the
> > Schaltwerk update. I would have
> > answered in detail but at the moment the preparation
> > of the music fair is much
> > more important.
> >
> > There are some incorrect claims in these messages
> > and the writers do not know
> > some of the technical details that prevented us from
> > an hardware/software
> > update. The processor used in the
> > Schaltwerk/Regelwerk is a SAB80C535 and has
> > 64kB memory for program and 64kB memory for data
> > (the Schaltwerk and Regelwerk
> > development started in 1994/95 and at this time the
> > 80C535 was a
> > state-of-the-art microcontroller). One cannot simply
> > add more memory (of course
> > we know that memory is cheap now) as the processor
> > is not able to handle the
> > bigger memory. Bank switching of memory id not
> > possible as the emulators
> > (required for program design) do not support bank
> > switching. Changing to another
> > processor means that we have to buy all the
> > development tools (assembler,
> > C-compiler, linker and  especiall the emulator) for
> > the new processor. This is
> > an investment in the range of 25000 Euro ! We have
> > to think carefully about such
> > an investment as it has to pay.
> >
> > Anyway - we think about the general use of a new and
> > more powerful processor.
> > But this consideration has to take into
> > consideration not only the
> > Schaltwerk/Regelwerk but other devices too as the
> > purchase price for the
> > development tools is far too much only for a
> > Schaltwerk/Regelwerk update. In
> > spring 2002 we will decide which new processor will
> > be used. We have
> > short-listed some Fujitsu, Mitsubishi or Toshiba
> > 16-Bit microcontrollers with
> > flash memory. And possibly we will develop a
> > completely new basic board for
> > Schaltwerk and Regelwerk as soon as we (i.e.
> > Christian Assall in the first
> > place) have sufficient experience with this new
> > processor. I cannot guarantee
> > this but you can be sure that we do our best to keep
> > our customers satisfied.
> > All attempts to "tune" the 80C535 processor failed
> > (e.g. more memory, higher
> > speed). The only solution is to make a "cut" and
> > change to a completely new
> > processor. But this means that nearly the complete
> > (!!!) software has to be
> > written new as the processor languages are not
> > compatible. I'm sure that the
> > complaining customer has no idea about the efforts
> > that are necessary to do
> > this. Believe me: if there would be an easy way to
> > offer an update for
> > Schaltwerk or Regelwerk we would have done this !
> >
> > In addition I agree that the forum was establihed fo
> > A-100 and not for
> > Schaltwerk/Regelwerk (these were developed before
> > the A-100 so that it is
> > nonsense to call them A-100 extensions).
> >
> > For me it is completely confusing if there are polls
> > and suggestions for new
> > modules on one hand and the request on the other
> > hand to stop the development of
> > new modules but to make an Schaltwerk update instead
> > of it.
> >
> > And concerning the blue LEDs: this was not our idea
> > ! We offer the devices with
> > blue LEDs not because we think this is a technical
> > innovation but because many
> > customers asked for (like you). I think the
> > complaining customer really does not
> > know the score. It takes definitely no development
> > time to change red LEDs into
> > blue ones. If the "development time" required for
> > the blue LEDs would be the
> > same as for a Schaltwerk/Regelwerk update of course
> > we would have preferred the
> > update!
> >
> > Please don't be annoyed if I cannot answer every
> > message in detail but we are in
> > the "hot phase" for the Frankfurt fair (the complete
> > stand and all devices,
> > prospectus, flyers, signs, lab coats, lightning,
> > mixers, computers, main voltage
> > distributors, amplifiers, loudspeakers, tables,
> > tools, measuring equipment and
> > and and ... have to be prepared)."
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Dieter Doepfer
> > Doepfer Musikelektronik GmbH
> > http://www.doepfer.de
> > email: hardware@doepfer.de
>
>
>
>  O.K!!!NOW I HOPE THIS MATTER WILL COME TO AN END...
>  synthfreak
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> synthfreak(parallel worlds)
> athens-greece
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner-moderator
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
> http://sports.yahoo.com
>
>
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