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poly pressure

poly pressure

2009-02-02 by psionic11

Hi all, first post here.  I've read through a good deal of the last 
year's posts, and hope I can contribute soon.  I'd like to give big 
props to k5kip for coming up with the BCR2000 presets, doesn't seem 
like anyone has given him much acknowledgement for this great 
breakthrough which brings the VFX up to today's hand's-on flexibility.

My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
aftertouch abilities?

I just bought a used and slightly abused VFX (broken non-essential 
parts, stripped screws), and wondering if this creaky, bendy keyboard 
is typical of the VFX?  Pressing down gives minimal aftertouch 
sensibility, and seems to require a lot of force.  I'm still reading 
the manual trying to understand how to assign aftertouch to something 
obvious, like pitch bend, but it almost seems like I don't really have 
aftertouch... I'm beginning to wonder if the original aftertouch 
keyboard was taken out and replaced by another...

RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] poly pressure

2009-02-02 by John

Hi,

 

Have you tried adjusting the aftertouch?  If you click the master key
and check around you should find an aftertouch setting.  I think there
are 3 levels.  I hope this helps.

 

John   
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of psionic11
Sent: 02 February 2009 05:11
To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] poly pressure

 

Hi all, first post here. I've read through a good deal of the last 
year's posts, and hope I can contribute soon. I'd like to give big 
props to k5kip for coming up with the BCR2000 presets, doesn't seem 
like anyone has given him much acknowledgement for this great 
breakthrough which brings the VFX up to today's hand's-on flexibility.

My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
aftertouch abilities?

I just bought a used and slightly abused VFX (broken non-essential 
parts, stripped screws), and wondering if this creaky, bendy keyboard 
is typical of the VFX? Pressing down gives minimal aftertouch 
sensibility, and seems to require a lot of force. I'm still reading 
the manual trying to understand how to assign aftertouch to something 
obvious, like pitch bend, but it almost seems like I don't really have 
aftertouch... I'm beginning to wonder if the original aftertouch 
keyboard was taken out and replaced by another...

Re: poly pressure

2009-02-02 by k5kip_1999

Thanks!

You are the only person to acknowledge my sysex editor for this synth
based on the bcr2000.
I have had 15 downloads from my site and I don't know how many here.
I think it rocks!
Unfortunately right after I finished that preset, I had to move the
vfx out to the shed. No room in here...
If you on the bcr2k you should also try the mackie presets I have
developed.
I have one for Live and for Reaper.
http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/bcr2000/Presets/presets.htm

Sorry I can't help you on the poly pressure thing.

Kip


--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" <psionic11@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi all, first post here.  I've read through a good deal of the last 
> year's posts, and hope I can contribute soon.  I'd like to give big 
> props to k5kip for coming up with the BCR2000 presets, doesn't seem 
> like anyone has given him much acknowledgement for this great 
> breakthrough which brings the VFX up to today's hand's-on flexibility.
> 
> My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
> aftertouch abilities?
> 
> I just bought a used and slightly abused VFX (broken non-essential 
> parts, stripped screws), and wondering if this creaky, bendy keyboard 
> is typical of the VFX?  Pressing down gives minimal aftertouch 
> sensibility, and seems to require a lot of force.  I'm still reading 
> the manual trying to understand how to assign aftertouch to something 
> obvious, like pitch bend, but it almost seems like I don't really have 
> aftertouch... I'm beginning to wonder if the original aftertouch 
> keyboard was taken out and replaced by another...
>

Re: poly pressure

2009-02-03 by psionic11

Thanks, figured out the poly pressure issue.  I thought the Master 
parameter "TOUCH=SOFT1" was for velocity scaling of the keyboard.  
Turns out I do indeed have polyphonic aftertouch.  I still have to 
learn to adjust to the VFX tho, as my Alesis keyboards seem more 
natural and smooth to respond versus the VFX's response.

As for the BC2000 template, I have a BCF2000 instead (the one with 
faders instead of only rotary encoders.  I think I will go ahead and 
get a BCR as well.  Your VFX template should help me learn the fast 
track to programming the BCR, which I can then transfer over to the 
BCF.


--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@...> 
wrote:
>
> Thanks!
> 
> You are the only person to acknowledge my sysex editor for this 
synth
> based on the bcr2000.
> I have had 15 downloads from my site and I don't know how many here.
> I think it rocks!
> Unfortunately right after I finished that preset, I had to move the
> vfx out to the shed. No room in here...
> If you on the bcr2k you should also try the mackie presets I have
> developed.
> I have one for Live and for Reaper.
> http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/bcr2000/Presets/presets.htm
> 
> Sorry I can't help you on the poly pressure thing.
> 
> Kip
> 
> 
> --- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" <psionic11@> 
wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, first post here.  I've read through a good deal of the 
last 
> > year's posts, and hope I can contribute soon.  I'd like to give 
big 
> > props to k5kip for coming up with the BCR2000 presets, doesn't 
seem 
> > like anyone has given him much acknowledgement for this great 
> > breakthrough which brings the VFX up to today's hand's-on 
flexibility.
> > 
> > My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
> > aftertouch abilities?
> > 
> > I just bought a used and slightly abused VFX (broken non-
essential 
> > parts, stripped screws), and wondering if this creaky, bendy 
keyboard 
> > is typical of the VFX?  Pressing down gives minimal aftertouch 
> > sensibility, and seems to require a lot of force.  I'm still 
reading 
> > the manual trying to understand how to assign aftertouch to 
something 
> > obvious, like pitch bend, but it almost seems like I don't really 
have 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > aftertouch... I'm beginning to wonder if the original aftertouch 
> > keyboard was taken out and replaced by another...
> >
>

RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] poly pressure

2009-02-03 by Will Robinson

I've noticed over the years it takes a bit more pressure, especially on the white keys. I rarely use Poly aftertouch but this is the same with channel aftertouch. Try the black keys and use any synth type sound to test with, the piano and electrics should not employ aftertouch unless an organ is kicking the Leslie simulator in and out. Your mileage may vary.

--- On Mon, 2/2/09, John wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: John
Subject: RE: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] poly pressure
To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:37 PM

Hi,

Have you tried adjusting the aftertouch? If you click the master key and check around you should find an aftertouch setting. I think there are 3 levels. I hope this helps.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Ensoniq-VFX- SD@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Ensoniq- VFX-SD@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of psionic11
Sent: 02 February 2009 05:11
To: Ensoniq-VFX- SD@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX- SD] poly pressure

Hi all, first post here. I've read through a good deal of the last
year's posts, and hope I can contribute soon. I'd like to give big
props to k5kip for coming up with the BCR2000 presets, doesn't seem
like anyone has given him much acknowledgement for this great
breakthrough which brings the VFX up to today's hand's-on flexibility.

My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic
aftertouch abilities?

I just bought a used and slightly abused VFX (broken non-essential
parts, stripped screws), and wondering if this creaky, bendy keyboard
is typical of the VFX? Pressing down gives minimal aftertouch
sensibility, and seems to require a lot of force. I'm still reading
the manual trying to understand how to assign aftertouch to something
obvious, like pitch bend, but it almost seems like I don't really have
aftertouch.. . I'm beginning to wonder if the original aftertouch
keyboard was taken out and replaced by another...


Re: poly pressure

2009-02-03 by k5kip_1999

check out bcmanager on the site below.
You can do many things with the bcf as well.

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" <psionic11@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks, figured out the poly pressure issue.  I thought the Master 
> parameter "TOUCH=SOFT1" was for velocity scaling of the keyboard.  
> Turns out I do indeed have polyphonic aftertouch.  I still have to 
> learn to adjust to the VFX tho, as my Alesis keyboards seem more 
> natural and smooth to respond versus the VFX's response.
> 
> As for the BC2000 template, I have a BCF2000 instead (the one with 
> faders instead of only rotary encoders.  I think I will go ahead and 
> get a BCR as well.  Your VFX template should help me learn the fast 
> track to programming the BCR, which I can then transfer over to the 
> BCF.
> 
> 
> --- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "k5kip_1999" <k5kip_1999@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > You are the only person to acknowledge my sysex editor for this 
> synth
> > based on the bcr2000.
> > I have had 15 downloads from my site and I don't know how many here.
> > I think it rocks!
> > Unfortunately right after I finished that preset, I had to move the
> > vfx out to the shed. No room in here...
> > If you on the bcr2k you should also try the mackie presets I have
> > developed.
> > I have one for Live and for Reaper.
> > http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/bcr2000/Presets/presets.htm
> > 
> > Sorry I can't help you on the poly pressure thing.
> > 
> > Kip
> > 
> > 
> > --- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" <psionic11@> 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all, first post here.  I've read through a good deal of the 
> last 
> > > year's posts, and hope I can contribute soon.  I'd like to give 
> big 
> > > props to k5kip for coming up with the BCR2000 presets, doesn't 
> seem 
> > > like anyone has given him much acknowledgement for this great 
> > > breakthrough which brings the VFX up to today's hand's-on 
> flexibility.
> > > 
> > > My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
> > > aftertouch abilities?
> > > 
> > > I just bought a used and slightly abused VFX (broken non-
> essential 
> > > parts, stripped screws), and wondering if this creaky, bendy 
> keyboard 
> > > is typical of the VFX?  Pressing down gives minimal aftertouch 
> > > sensibility, and seems to require a lot of force.  I'm still 
> reading 
> > > the manual trying to understand how to assign aftertouch to 
> something 
> > > obvious, like pitch bend, but it almost seems like I don't really 
> have 
> > > aftertouch... I'm beginning to wonder if the original aftertouch 
> > > keyboard was taken out and replaced by another...
> > >
> >
>

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-02-04 by Joe McMahon

On Feb 2, 2009, at 3:45 PM, k5kip_1999 wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> You are the only person to acknowledge my sysex editor for this synth
> based on the bcr2000.
I would belatedly like to compliment you on it; that's a heck of an  
achievement. My VFX and SD-1 are also out in the shed, figuratively  
speaking, for the moment. :/ Otherwise I'd love to try it.

  --- Joe M.

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] poly pressure

2009-02-05 by Johan Halmen

On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:11:04 -0000, psionic11 wrote
> 
> My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
> aftertouch abilities?
> 

Try Kotodreams. Don't remember if it's in the ROM sounds or where, but it has
a strong pitch bending for after touch. one part of the sound sustains at
constant pitch, but the very string like sound bends easily up with aftertouch. 

--
Johan Halm\ufffdn

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-21 by Dan Rue

I agree - the Kyotodreams uses aftertouch well.  Personally, I love the oboe sound.  With the aftertouch, it is more expressive than anything I've been able to conjure on my Yamaha Motif ES8.

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Halmen" <johan.halmen@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:11:04 -0000, psionic11 wrote
> > 
> > My question: which presets best demonstrate the VFX's polyphonic 
> > aftertouch abilities?
> > 
> 
> Try Kotodreams. Don't remember if it's in the ROM sounds or where, but it has
> a strong pitch bending for after touch. one part of the sound sustains at
> constant pitch, but the very string like sound bends easily up with aftertouch. 
> 
> --
> Johan Halmén
>

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-22 by psionic11

I tried Koto Dreams this morning.  The upper right of the keyboard, when I press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of the main reed sound.  But there is less of this on the left side of the keyboard.  I have to really push down hard.  The whole keybed moves, creaks.  Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play.  

One of the main reasons I got this keyboard was for the polypressure.  I'm thinking again that one of the previous owners took the synth apart.  

Let me ask you guys this, for comparison.  Does your VFX-SD's keyboard respond sensitively and deftly to your playing?  Or is it more like a clackity-clack feel?  I realize that my Fusion 6HD's keybed is semi-weighted, and from a decade later, and therefore smoother and more transparent to music-making, but how do you personally feel about the response and intuitiveness of your VFX non-weighted keybed?  Maybe I just got a bad deal off E-bay...  Should I look for a replacement VFX?  Thanks.

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-22 by formanmatthew

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Rue" <danrue@...> wrote:
>
> I agree - the Kyotodreams uses aftertouch well.  Personally, I love the oboe sound.  With the aftertouch, it is more expressive than anything I've been able to conjure on my Yamaha Motif ES8.
> 

Hi - another fairly new member here with first post.

+1 on Koto-Dreams, if that's the one you mean, and I also love the 'Double-Reed' oboe.

I've spent some time going through the wealth of sounds available, and 'Violin Solo' from the 44_PRG bank in the 'The Lot' set from this group has to be one of the most expressive solo patches I've ever played on any synth. It's amazing what you can get out of this one with just velocity and poly aftertouch - and mostly all done with simple sawtooths as a base! Try it!

Matt

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-22 by Jon Carroll

Does the VFX-SD ever need the keybed fix?

Have you had the keys cleaned?

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "psionic11" <psionic11@...>
To: <Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:47 AM
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure


>I tried Koto Dreams this morning.  The upper right of the keyboard, when I 
>press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of 
>the main reed sound.  But there is less of this on the left side of the 
>keyboard.  I have to really push down hard.  The whole keybed moves, 
>creaks.  Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play.
>
> One of the main reasons I got this keyboard was for the polypressure.  I'm 
> thinking again that one of the previous owners took the synth apart.
>
> Let me ask you guys this, for comparison.  Does your VFX-SD's keyboard 
> respond sensitively and deftly to your playing?  Or is it more like a 
> clackity-clack feel?  I realize that my Fusion 6HD's keybed is 
> semi-weighted, and from a decade later, and therefore smoother and more 
> transparent to music-making, but how do you personally feel about the 
> response and intuitiveness of your VFX non-weighted keybed?  Maybe I just 
> got a bad deal off E-bay...  Should I look for a replacement VFX?  Thanks.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

AW: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-22 by Hans Artmann

I had a vanilla vfx before I got an sd and an sd-1 and the keyboard of the vanilla vfx was built differently
and responded better to aftertouch than the later ones.
In general, I'm still very satisfied with the keyboard behaviour.
Hans
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von psionic11
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. April 2009 12:47
An: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
Betreff: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

Show quoted textHide quoted text

I tried Koto Dreams this morning. The upper right of the keyboard, when I press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of the main reed sound. But there is less of this on the left side of the keyboard. I have to really push down hard. The whole keybed moves, creaks. Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play.

One of the main reasons I got this keyboard was for the polypressure. I'm thinking again that one of the previous owners took the synth apart.

Let me ask you guys this, for comparison. Does your VFX-SD's keyboard respond sensitively and deftly to your playing? Or is it more like a clackity-clack feel? I realize that my Fusion 6HD's keybed is semi-weighted, and from a decade later, and therefore smoother and more transparent to music-making, but how do you personally feel about the response and intuitiveness of your VFX non-weighted keybed? Maybe I just got a bad deal off E-bay... Should I look for a replacement VFX? Thanks.

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-22 by formanmatthew

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" <psionic11@...> wrote:
>
> I tried Koto Dreams this morning.  The upper right of the keyboard, when I press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of the main reed sound.  But there is less of this on the left side of the keyboard.  I have to really push down hard.  The whole keybed moves, creaks.  Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play.  
> 
> One of the main reasons I got this keyboard was for the polypressure.  I'm thinking again that one of the previous owners took the synth apart.  

When my VFX arrived, only a couple of months ago, the keyboard had some of the same symptoms. I gave the whole unit a thorough check over and clean inside and out. The keybed is secured by 10 large screws in the base - the second and third rows up from the bottom. Make sure that these are all pretty secure; they weren't fully tight on mine, and it definitely stabilised the keyboard when I fixed that.

> Let me ask you guys this, for comparison.  Does your VFX-SD's keyboard respond sensitively and deftly to your playing?  Or is it more like a clackity-clack feel?  I realize that my Fusion 6HD's keybed is semi-weighted, and from a decade later, and therefore smoother and more transparent to music-making, but how do you personally feel about the response and intuitiveness of your VFX non-weighted keybed?  Maybe I just got a bad deal off E-bay...  Should I look for a replacement VFX?  Thanks.
>

Well, another thing I noticed by looking at the MIDI data it produced: For the first 10-15 minutes after power-up, the aftertouch response was decidedly unreliable. After 'warming up' it was fine. This is normally a symptom of some component(s) running slightly out of tolerance, but after a bit of cleaning of the keybed internals and a couple of months of use, it's up and running pretty much immediately.

FWIW, the VFX keys are (very slightly) semi-weighted, and I find the action very good (though I don't play 'proper' piano keyboards that much these days!) One great thing about the aftertouch: Due to the way the keyboard scanning is done, it's a smooth extension of the normal travel, ie. no odd 'sensor' feel when I hit the aftertouch that I've found in many other boards. It does take a bit more force than others, but when tightened up it stands up to it fine!

So... Make sure the keybed screws are tight, give it a short warm-up period, and set the softest 'touch' setting (1) under the Master menu if you haven't already: I use TOUCH='MED-1'.

Hope this helps.
Matt

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-22 by Bob S.

I found my older VFX also responds/feels better than my SD1 with the PolyAT.....maybe the keyboard bed is different. I was hoping there was a AT sensitivity adjustment other than the menu one like my Yamaha AN1x (channel aftertouch). That keyboard has an internal trimmer pot to adjust AT gain & offset....I was able to "tune up" the AT to just the touch I liked.....but considering the number of PolyAT keyboards out there, I am happy to settle for some PolyAT than no PolyAT at all. (I have a Roland A50 controller that is PolyAT but 2/3s of the keys no longer PolyAT, hopefully just a cable)
Bob
El Segundo, CA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" ..> wrote:
>
> I tried Koto Dreams this morning. The upper right of the keyboard, when I press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of the main reed sound. But there is less of this on the left side of the keyboard. I have to really push down hard. The whole keybed moves, creaks. Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play.
>
> One of the main reasons I got this keyboard was for the polypressure. I'm thinking again that one of the previous owners took the synth apart.

When my VFX arrived, only a couple of months ago, the keyboard had some of the same symptoms. I gave the whole unit a thorough check over and clean inside and out. The keybed is secured by 10 large screws in the base - the second and third rows up from the bottom. Make sure that these are all pretty secure; they weren't fully tight on mine, and it definitely stabilised the keyboard when I fixed that.

> Let me ask you guys this, for comparison. Does your VFX-SD's keyboard respond sensitively and deftly to your playing? Or is it more like a clackity-clack feel? I realize that my Fusion 6HD's keybed is semi-weighted, and from a decade later, and therefore smoother and more transparent to music-making, but how do you personally feel about the response and intuitiveness of your VFX non-weighted keybed? Maybe I just got a bad deal off E-bay... Should I look for a replacement VFX? Thanks.
>

Well, another thing I noticed by looking at the MIDI data it produced: For the first 10-15 minutes after power-up, the aftertouch response was decidedly unreliable. After 'warming up' it was fine. This is normally a symptom of some component(s) running slightly out of tolerance, but after a bit of cleaning of the keybed internals and a couple of months of use, it's up and running pretty much immediately.

FWIW, the VFX keys are (very slightly) semi-weighted, and I find the action very good (though I don't play 'proper' piano keyboards that much these days!) One great thing about the aftertouch: Due to the way the keyboard scanning is done, it's a smooth extension of the normal travel, ie. no odd 'sensor' feel when I hit the aftertouch that I've found in many other boards. It does take a bit more force than others, but when tightened up it stands up to it fine!

So... Make sure the keybed screws are tight, give it a short warm-up period, and set the softest 'touch' setting (1) under the Master menu if you haven't already: I use TOUCH='MED-1'.

Hope this helps.
Matt

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-23 by Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ

On Wed, 2009-04-22 at 15:09 -0700, Jon Carroll wrote:
> Does the VFX-SD ever need the keybed fix?

Mine had been done when I got it, second hand quite some time ago.  I
redid it before I sold it, because the soldering was a bit blobby.

I haven't even opened my VFX, haven't needed to...

Gordon

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-23 by Roger Campbell

Hi Folks

Just a bit of clarification BEFORE anyone goes ripping their VFX-* apart to change the keyboard pressure responsiveness.

to quote a recent post......

""I tried Koto Dreams this morning. The upper right of the keyboard, when I press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of the main reed sound. But there is less of this on the left side of the keyboard. I have to really push down hard. The whole keybed moves, creaks. Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play. ""

The "master" pressure setting on our beloved keyboard is something that confused me for years until I re-read the manual CAREFULLY and it finally dawned on me what it meant.

(have a look at the SD-1 Musician's Manual page 3 - 1) I can't remember how it works on a VFX, but on the SD-1 it is as follows......

It has 4 levels of Velocity - Soft Med Firm Hard (NOTE; there are ONLY these 4 levels)
It has 4 levels of Pressure - 1 2 3 4. ( also only 4 settings)

When setting the "Touch" on your keyboard....

when you select "Soft 1" (for example) you are actually setting two separate variables, you're setting the machine to respond to velocity with a high degree of sensitivity (Soft), and setting the machine to respond to after-touch with minimum force (1).

when you select "Soft 4", you're setting the machine to respond to velocity with a high degree of sensitivity ("Soft" - same as before), but setting the machine to respond only to after-touch with maximum force (4) - i.e. too much.

You see? You don't have four degrees of "soft", there is only one - soft is soft, the number after the "Soft/Med/Firm/Hard" setting is the Aftertouch sensitivity (1 to 4).

So (for example) if you want a Medium amount of velocity sensitivity, with a MAXIMUM amount of pressure sensitivity, you set it to "Med 1".

See? (Gosh I hope this makes sense, I didn't think it would be this hard to explain when I started typing this!!)

Yeah I know, clear as mud.

Experiment, read the owner's manual, you'll get it. Cripes, it only took me 20 years......


And the other question....

""Let me ask you guys this, for comparison. Does your VFX-SD's keyboard respond sensitively and deftly to your playing? Or is it more like a clackity-clack feel?
""

The original VFX had a unique keyboard that "clacked" like a railway car. I loved it, very responsive.
The later machines had a different keyboard altogether. BUT, you shouldn't need to make the whole keybed creak to get an acceptable amount of after-touch.

Good luck with all that.

Now off to bed and sleep easy knowing that we own one of the best synths ever made.

Cheers

Roger (poster of the original "the lot" patch collection all those years ago - yeah I know, keep the applause down!!)


Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-23 by Bob S.

Wow...thank you for that clarification....it may explain my differences in aftertouch between the VFX & SD1. I'll have to try the alternate settings....
Bob
El Segundo, CA
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:45 AM
Subject: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

Hi Folks

Just a bit of clarification BEFORE anyone goes ripping their VFX-* apart to change the keyboard pressure responsiveness.

to quote a recent post......

""I tried Koto Dreams this morning. The upper right of the keyboard, when I press down harder (and I mean 'harder'), there is indeed a pitch bend up of the main reed sound. But there is less of this on the left side of the keyboard. I have to really push down hard. The whole keybed moves, creaks. Needless to say, it's not a very inspiring way to play. ""

The "master" pressure setting on our beloved keyboard is something that confused me for years until I re-read the manual CAREFULLY and it finally dawned on me what it meant.

(have a look at the SD-1 Musician's Manual page 3 - 1) I can't remember how it works on a VFX, but on the SD-1 it is as follows......

It has 4 levels of Velocity - Soft Med Firm Hard (NOTE; there are ONLY these 4 levels)
It has 4 levels of Pressure - 1 2 3 4. ; ( also only 4 settings)

When setting the "Touch" on your keyboard....

when you select "Soft 1" (for example) you are actually setting two separate variables, you're setting the machine to respond to velocity with a high degree of sensitivity (Soft), and setting the machine to respond to after-touch with minimum force (1).

when you select "Soft 4", you're setting the machine to respond to velocity with a high degree of sensitivity ("Soft" - same as before), but setting the machine to respond only to after-touch with maximum force (4) - i.e. too much.

You see? You don't have four degrees of "soft", there is only one - soft is soft, the number after the "Soft/Med/Firm/Hard" setting is the Aftertouch sensitivity (1 to 4).

So (for example) if you want a Medium amount of velocity sensitivity, with a MAXIMUM amount of pressure sensitivity, you set it to "Med 1".

See? (Gosh I hope this makes sense, I didn't think it would be this hard to explain when I started typing this!!)

Yeah I know, clear as mud.

Experiment, read the owner's manual, you'll get it. Cripes, it only took me 20 years......


And the other question....

""Let me ask you guys this, for comparison. Does your VFX-SD's keyboard respond sensitively and deftly to your playing? Or is it more like a clackity-clack feel?
""

The original VFX had a unique keyboard that "clacked" like a railway car. I loved it, very responsive.
The later machines had a different keyboard altogether. BUT, you shouldn't need to make the whole keybed creak to get an acceptable amount of after-touch.

Good luck with all that.

Now off to bed and sleep easy knowing that we own one of the best synths ever made.

Cheers

Roger (poster of the original "the lot" patch collection all those years ago - yeah I know, keep the applause down!!)


Re: poly pressure

2009-04-23 by formanmatthew

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, Roger Campbell <roger17@...> wrote:
> 
> The "master" pressure setting on our beloved keyboard is something that 
> confused me for years until I re-read the manual CAREFULLY and it 
> finally dawned on me what it meant.
> 
[Good explanation of 'touch' parameter snipped]

Thanks for that. I was wondering whether I should have been clearer myself! MEDium velocity sensitivity, and '1' for pressure sensitivity is my current favourite set-up.

> 
> The original VFX had a unique keyboard that "clacked" like a railway 
> car.  I loved it, very responsive.
> The later machines had a different keyboard altogether. BUT, you 
> shouldn't need to make the whole keybed creak to get an acceptable 
> amount of after-touch.
> 

That's interesting. I've never played any of them except the vanilla VFX, but I had thought that every machine from the SQ80 up to the SD-1 had basically the same keyboard assembly (notwithstanding a few slightly different board and KPC firmware revisions, and, of course, a bunch of different types of connector/wiring between the left and right keyboard PCBs!). Certainly folks selling them as spares seem to group them together as though interchangeable.

> Now off to bed and sleep easy knowing that we own one of the best synths 
> ever made.

Couldn't afford one first time around [I was 17 when first VFX was launched], but now I finally have one I have to agree!

Matt

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-23 by psionic11

Yes, thx for that info, will try it out later when I get home, altho I did a bit of experimenting already.

Was wondering tho -- where do you actually assign the AFTERTOUCH parameter?  In other words, if you wanted aftertouch to open up a filter or even be trasmitted via MIDI to a synth that receives polypressure commands (my Fusion), where would you change those parameters?

I was trying to open up the pitch bend range (to an octave, for aftertouch tests) via polyaftertouch for Koto Dreams, but hunting for parameters revealed nothing.

I think I may have to take my VFXSD apart after all, as I've discovered that the black keys respond more smoothly and sensitively to polytouch than the white keys.

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-23 by formanmatthew

--- In Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com, "psionic11" <psionic11@...>
wrote:
> Was wondering tho -- where do you actually assign the AFTERTOUCH
parameter?  In other words, if you wanted aftertouch to open up a filter
or even be trasmitted via MIDI to a synth that receives polypressure
commands (my Fusion), where would you change those parameters?

1. To get a patch to use or transmit aftertouch at all, press 'Patch
Select' until you see 'PRES' at top left. You can then select NONE, KEY
or CHAN for 'don't use at all', 'poly' or 'channel';
2. Just select PRESS ('pressure') as a MODSRC anywhere, eg. press
'Filters', then bottom left soft-key, then data entry or up/down. Don't
forget MODAMT, too.

> I was trying to open up the pitch bend range (to an octave, for
aftertouch tests) via polyaftertouch for Koto Dreams, but hunting for
parameters revealed nothing.

Press 'Pitch Mod' for that. ***BUT*** Very Important Thing: Any of the
parameters in the Programming group, eg. Pitch Mod, Filters, etc. will
apply to the currently-selected voice ('Select Voice' button). Remember
that a VFX sound is a combination of up to 6 voices. You probably had a
voice selected that doesn't have any aftertouch pitch bend, hence you
didn't see it. Try selecting the 6th voice in Koto-Dreams: 'EL-GUITAR',
and fiddling with the Pitch Mod params there. Good luck!

Matt

Re: poly pressure

2009-04-24 by psionic11

Alright, have it all figured out, and here are the results:

All black keys respond well enough to polypressure.  Most of the white keys also respond ok, many have bad response, and 7 white keys do not respond at all to pressure =(.  I tested by going to the PITCH MOD page, setting MODSRC = PRESS, and set MODAMT = +99, to get a very obvious indicator of how pressing harder affects the pitch.

So it looks like I will have to take it apart and see if there are some loose screws that can be tightened.  Crossing my fingers.

Thanks all for the input, it was all very helpful.

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-24 by Steve Wahl

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 02:32:39AM -0000, psionic11 wrote:
> Alright, have it all figured out, and here are the results:
> 
> All black keys respond well enough to polypressure.  Most of the white keys also respond ok, many have bad response, and 7 white keys do not respond at all to pressure =(.  I tested by going to the PITCH MOD page, setting MODSRC = PRESS, and set MODAMT = +99, to get a very obvious indicator of how pressing harder affects the pitch.
> 
> So it looks like I will have to take it apart and see if there are some loose screws that can be tightened.  Crossing my fingers.
> 
> Thanks all for the input, it was all very helpful.

When I took my VFX apart, it looked like each of the keys had a piece
of metal in it, and the circuit board running beneath the keys had
different shaped "antenna coils" under each key.  There did not appear
to be any actual electrical contact involved in detecting the keys.

My guess these all work like a metal detector, and the different
shapes to the coils somehow help keep adjacent keys from interfering
with each other.  This would mean all the little microcontroller that
handles the keys can do is detect how close that metal piece is to the
circuit board, and it turns that information into both key down /
velocity and aftertouch messages.

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, this is ALL educated
guesses as to how this stuff works.  But I'm guessing that your keys
that don't work well for aftertouch are either not getting as close to
the keybed as the ones that work well, or maybe they're at one edge of
the calibration range.

If you're going to open it up anyway, you could try swapping two
ocaves worth of keys (I think they're interchangable; someone correct
me if I'm wrong) to see if the problem follows the keys or stays with
the keybed.

I don't know if that will help you at all, but thought I'd send it on
anyway.  Does anyone here have a more thourough understanding of how
the keyboard in these synths actually work?

While I do remember some saying the later keyboards were different,
the keybeds in my (vanilla) VFX and my VFX-SD (not a VFX-SD-II) are
substantially the same.  My guess would be all the changes were in the
mechanics (tolerances, spring strength, etc.), and that everything
about the key sensing stayed the same.

--> Steve

-- 
Steve Wahl    steve@...

Fools ignore complexity.  Pragmatists suffer it.
Some can avoid it.  Geniuses remove it.
-- Perlis's Programming Proverb #58, SIGPLAN Notices, Sept.  1982

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] Re: poly pressure

2009-04-24 by Gordon JC Pearce MM3YEQ

On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 11:27 -0500, Steve Wahl wrote:

> 
> I don't know if this makes any sense at all, this is ALL educated
> guesses as to how this stuff works.  But I'm guessing that your keys
> that don't work well for aftertouch are either not getting as close to
> the keybed as the ones that work well, or maybe they're at one edge of
> the calibration range.

Got it in one.  Good guess ;-)  You've basically got 61 little metal
detectors...

> If you're going to open it up anyway, you could try swapping two
> ocaves worth of keys (I think they're interchangable; someone correct
> me if I'm wrong) to see if the problem follows the keys or stays with
> the keybed.

I'd make sure that it wasn't some keyboard split thing, by using one
voice set to "default" parameters across the whole keyboard...

Gordon

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