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SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by Christian Brunschen

I have a strange problem with my SD-1/32.

I bought it used on eBay a couple of years ago; when I received it, it still had sequences and such in memory, showing that the battery was fine. Indeed, the analog tests (Preset + Compare) showed the same thing.

Then, a few months ago, when I started it and tried to look at the sequences in memory it told me 'The Sequencer must be Loaded' – in other words, it had completely forgotten the contents of its battery-backed memory. However, it was not complaining about a low voltage level from the battery.

So I figured it might be that the battery was coming loose when the keyboard was cooling off, or something similar. Anyway, I just today replaced the battery with a battery holder and a fresh battery; and the same thing still happens: battery level us shown as '142' on the analog checks page, there's no low-battery-voltage warning, everything seems to work while the keyboard is mains-powered ... but once it's powered off, the sequencer OS and the internal-RAM sounds are forgotten.

I've also checked - while the keyboard was off - the battery voltage (3.04V), the voltage drop across the diode to the right of the battery (0.04V) and the voltage at the power supply pin of the SRAM chips just below the battery (2.99 - 3.00V) – all of which appears to indicate that power is being supplied, and correctly, and as expected.

Had this been a VFX-SD or SD-1 where I had replaced the SRAM chips, those would have been my next suspicion - but on the SD-1/32, these are soldered in place, so there's no potential issue with sockets or similar.

So I am a bit .... lost. This isn't a crippling problem - after all, I can save-and-reload everything - but that's not really ideal and uses the floppy drive a lot. Any suggestions, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,

// Christian Brunschen

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by Christian Brunschen

Hmm. Brief perusal of the service manual, page 23, chapter TEST PROCEDURE, section 11. "Disk Change Test/Battery Backup Test (SD-1/VFX-SD Only)", suggests that "Failure indicates a main board problem or a power supply problem." - which does not really narrow things down very much alas. 

Again, any thoughts, suggestions, etc, would be hugely appreciated.

// Christian
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 17 Jun 2012, at 10:46, Christian Brunschen wrote:

> I have a strange problem with my SD-1/32.
> 
> I bought it used on eBay a couple of years ago; when I received it, it still had sequences and such in memory, showing that the battery was fine. Indeed, the analog tests (Preset + Compare) showed the same thing.
> 
> Then, a few months ago, when I started it and tried to look at the sequences in memory it told me 'The Sequencer must be Loaded' – in other words, it had completely forgotten the contents of its battery-backed memory. However, it was not complaining about a low voltage level from the battery.
> 
> So I figured it might be that the battery was coming loose when the keyboard was cooling off, or something similar. Anyway, I just today replaced the battery with a battery holder and a fresh battery; and the same thing still happens: battery level us shown as '142' on the analog checks page, there's no low-battery-voltage warning, everything seems to work while the keyboard is mains-powered ... but once it's powered off, the sequencer OS and the internal-RAM sounds are forgotten.
> 
> I've also checked - while the keyboard was off - the battery voltage (3.04V), the voltage drop across the diode to the right of the battery (0.04V) and the voltage at the power supply pin of the SRAM chips just below the battery (2.99 - 3.00V) – all of which appears to indicate that power is being supplied, and correctly, and as expected.
> 
> Had this been a VFX-SD or SD-1 where I had replaced the SRAM chips, those would have been my next suspicion - but on the SD-1/32, these are soldered in place, so there's no potential issue with sockets or similar.
> 
> So I am a bit .... lost. This isn't a crippling problem - after all, I can save-and-reload everything - but that's not really ideal and uses the floppy drive a lot. Any suggestions, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> // Christian Brunschen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by Tal Rodriguez

Hi Christian,

No help here except to advise to email the guy in California and see if he has a solution. If the battery is being charged then I wouldn't suspect the power supply (initially). I hope this clears up for you soon.

 
Tal Rodriguez
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>________________________________
> From: Christian Brunschen <cb@...>
>To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:21 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK
> 
>Hmm. Brief perusal of the service manual, page 23, chapter TEST PROCEDURE, section 11. "Disk Change Test/Battery Backup Test (SD-1/VFX-SD Only)", suggests that "Failure indicates a main board problem or a power supply problem." - which does not really narrow things down very much alas. 
>
>Again, any thoughts, suggestions, etc, would be hugely appreciated.
>
>// Christian
>
>
>On 17 Jun 2012, at 10:46, Christian Brunschen wrote:
>
>> I have a strange problem with my SD-1/32.
>> 
>> I bought it used on eBay a couple of years ago; when I received it, it still had sequences and such in memory, showing that the battery was fine. Indeed, the analog tests (Preset + Compare) showed the same thing.
>> 
>> Then, a few months ago, when I started it and tried to look at the sequences in memory it told me 'The Sequencer must be Loaded' – in other words, it had completely forgotten the contents of its battery-backed memory. However, it was not complaining about a low voltage level from the battery.
>> 
>> So I figured it might be that the battery was coming loose when the keyboard was cooling off, or something similar. Anyway, I just today replaced the battery with a battery holder and a fresh battery; and the same thing still happens: battery level us shown as '142' on the analog checks page, there's no low-battery-voltage warning, everything seems to work while the keyboard is mains-powered ... but once it's powered off, the sequencer OS and the internal-RAM sounds are forgotten.
>> 
>> I've also checked - while the keyboard was off - the battery voltage (3.04V), the voltage drop across the diode to the right of the battery (0.04V) and the voltage at the power supply pin of the SRAM chips just below the battery (2.99 - 3.00V) – all of which appears to indicate that power is being supplied, and correctly, and as expected.
>> 
>> Had this been a VFX-SD or SD-1 where I had replaced the SRAM chips, those would have been my next suspicion - but on the SD-1/32, these are soldered in place, so there's no potential issue with sockets or similar.
>> 
>> So I am a bit .... lost. This isn't a crippling problem - after all, I can save-and-reload everything - but that's not really ideal and uses the floppy drive a lot. Any suggestions, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> 
>> // Christian Brunschen
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------
>> 
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by jammie

the battery should not be charged thats what the diode is for

the battery circuit only comes into play when switched off as the 

ram circuits are feed by the psu and the battery circuit is feed into the same 3v circuit via the diode so no reverse voltage goes to the battery and theres a cap which is charged so that the 3v is constant

when switched off the battery with its 3v charge goes through the diode and carries on charging the cap so thatthe ram chips hold the memory contents

are you cheaking the voltage when switched of are you getting the corect voltage at the diode input and output and are you getting the correct voltage from the charging capacitor

have you done a full hardware reset as the ram chips might have curupted data and are holding the data some times nown as ghost data

preventing good data from being written

this is the second time inrecent weeks that i have heard a sd/32 do this

not from any of the other models could be the sd32 mainboard thats at fualt but you need a logic anilyser and scope for this  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Tal Rodriguez 
  To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 1:35 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK


    

  Hi Christian,


  No help here except to advise to email the guy in California and see if he has a solution. If the battery is being charged then I wouldn't suspect the power supply (initially). I hope this clears up for you soon.

  Tal Rodriguez



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Christian Brunschen <cb@...>
    To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:21 AM
    Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK


    Hmm. Brief perusal of the service manual, page 23, chapter TEST PROCEDURE, section 11. "Disk Change Test/Battery Backup Test (SD-1/VFX-SD Only)", suggests that "Failure indicates a main board problem or a power supply problem." - which does not really narrow things down very much alas. 

    Again, any thoughts, suggestions, etc, would be hugely appreciated.

    // Christian


    On 17 Jun 2012, at 10:46, Christian Brunschen wrote:

    > I have a strange problem with my SD-1/32.
    > 
    > I bought it used on eBay a couple of years ago; when I received it, it still had sequences and such in memory, showing that the battery was fine. Indeed, the analog tests (Preset + Compare) showed the same thing.
    > 
    > Then, a few months ago, when I started it and tried to look at the sequences in memory it told me 'The Sequencer must be Loaded' – in other words, it had completely forgotten the contents of its battery-backed memory. However, it was not complaining about a low voltage level from the battery.
    > 
    > So I figured it might be that the battery was coming loose when the keyboard was cooling off, or something similar. Anyway, I just today replaced the battery with a battery holder and a fresh battery; and the same thing still happens: battery level us shown as '142' on the analog checks page, there's no low-battery-voltage warning, everything seems to work while the keyboard is mains-powered ... but once it's powered off, the sequencer OS and the internal-RAM sounds are forgotten.
    > 
    > I've also checked - while the keyboard was off - the battery voltage (3.04V), the voltage drop across the diode to the right of the battery (0.04V) and the voltage at the power supply pin of the SRAM chips just below the battery (2.99 - 3.00V) – all of which appears to indicate that power is being supplied, and correctly, and as expected.
    > 
    > Had this been a VFX-SD or SD-1 where I had replaced the SRAM chips, those would have been my next suspicion - but on the SD-1/32, these are soldered in place, so there's no potential issue with sockets or similar.
    > 
    > So I am a bit .... lost. This isn't a crippling problem - after all, I can save-and-reload everything - but that's not really ideal and uses the floppy drive a lot. Any suggestions, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated.
    > 
    > Best wishes,
    > 
    > // Christian Brunschen
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > ------------------------------------
    > 
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > 
    > 
    > 



    ------------------------------------

    Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by Christian Brunschen

On 17 Jun 2012, at 14:42, jammie wrote:

> the battery should not be charged thats what the diode is for 
>  
> the battery circuit only comes into play when switched off as the
>  
> ram circuits are feed by the psu and the battery circuit is feed into the same 3v circuit via the diode so no reverse voltage goes to the battery and theres a cap which is charged so that the 3v is constant
>  
> when switched off the battery with its 3v charge goes through the diode and carries on charging the cap so thatthe ram chips hold the memory contents
>  
> are you cheaking the voltage when switched of are you getting the corect voltage at the diode input and output and are you getting the correct voltage from the charging capacitor

I was checking the voltage from the battery, via the diode and on the actual RAM Vcc pin while the keyboard was switched off: Battery was providing just over 3V, diode voltage drop was about 0.04V, power at the RAM Vcc pins was just about 3V, matching battery_voltage - diode_power_drop.

While switched on, the RAM chip Vcc pin was receiving about 5V, as one would expect when power is on.

I haven't investigated the capacitor.

> have you done a full hardware reset as the ram chips might have curupted data and are holding the data some times nown as ghost data

I replaced the old battery with a battery holder + fresh battery today; so there was certainly a time when there was no battery or similar installed, and the motherboard out of its case, and no power whatsoever to the RAM chips. I've also done a system reset (Preset + top-left soft button).

I did, in fact, also note that on one or two occasions, the memory contents has survived a power-down-and-up, but on most occasions it does not. Perhaps there is some transient power-related issue that leaves the RAM with insufficient power when the power supply is being switched off or on? Hmmm. 

>  
> preventing good data from being written
>  
> this is the second time inrecent weeks that i have heard a sd/32 do this
>  
> not from any of the other models could be the sd32 mainboard thats at fualt but you need a logic anilyser and scope for this  

Yes; I may be able to borrow a scope, to watch the power supplied to the RAM chips, if nothing else ...

With some luck, I may have a spare power supply board that I can try - if that fixes it, it was most likely the power supply; if it doesn't, that would suggest the mainboard is at fault.

You're in the UK, I believe?

Best wishes,

// Christian
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tal Rodriguez
> To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK
> 
> 
> Hi Christian,
> 
> No help here except to advise to email the guy in California and see if he has a solution. If the battery is being charged then I wouldn't suspect the power supply (initially). I hope this clears up for you soon.
>  
> Tal Rodriguez
> 
> From: Christian Brunschen <cb@...>
> To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK
> 
> Hmm. Brief perusal of the service manual, page 23, chapter TEST PROCEDURE, section 11. "Disk Change Test/Battery Backup Test (SD-1/VFX-SD Only)", suggests that "Failure indicates a main board problem or a power supply problem." - which does not really narrow things down very much alas. 
> 
> Again, any thoughts, suggestions, etc, would be hugely appreciated.
> 
> // Christian
> 
> 
> On 17 Jun 2012, at 10:46, Christian Brunschen wrote:
> 
> > I have a strange problem with my SD-1/32.
> > 
> > I bought it used on eBay a couple of years ago; when I received it, it still had sequences and such in memory, showing that the battery was fine. Indeed, the analog tests (Preset + Compare) showed the same thing.
> > 
> > Then, a few months ago, when I started it and tried to look at the sequences in memory it told me 'The Sequencer must be Loaded' – in other words, it had completely forgotten the contents of its battery-backed memory. However, it was not complaining about a low voltage level from the battery.
> > 
> > So I figured it might be that the battery was coming loose when the keyboard was cooling off, or something similar. Anyway, I just today replaced the battery with a battery holder and a fresh battery; and the same thing still happens: battery level us shown as '142' on the analog checks page, there's no low-battery-voltage warning, everything seems to work while the keyboard is mains-powered ... but once it's powered off, the sequencer OS and the internal-RAM sounds are forgotten.
> > 
> > I've also checked - while the keyboard was off - the battery voltage (3.04V), the voltage drop across the diode to the right of the battery (0.04V) and the voltage at the power supply pin of the SRAM chips just below the battery (2.99 - 3.00V) – all of which appears to indicate that power is being supplied, and correctly, and as expected.
> > 
> > Had this been a VFX-SD or SD-1 where I had replaced the SRAM chips, those would have been my next suspicion - but on the SD-1/32, these are soldered in place, so there's no potential issue with sockets or similar.
> > 
> > So I am a bit .... lost. This isn't a crippling problem - after all, I can save-and-reload everything - but that's not really ideal and uses the floppy drive a lot. Any suggestions, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > // Christian Brunschen
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by jammie

yes 
im in the uk

i saw one on the bay that sold for £90 becuase of this same problem as he put spares or repair

i was thinking of bidding but already have 2 sd1 and a vfx-sd

check the cap as it might be bringing the voltage down when switching of as its getting 5v from the psu when switching off its not holding its charge enough for the baterry power to charge it quick enough which would give it a hardware momentary reset state which would wipe the ram

thats what i would do change that cap

as your measure ments show that your getting correct voltage and the diode voltage drop is perfect and 2.99-3v is spot on

its the switching of and the charging capaictor that might be at fualt

if it was a psu problem you would get bad white noise on the audio outputs

and as seein the ram circuits are from the 5v supply which also does the floppy and display voltage yu would be getting problems there

but it would not hert to do a full service of the psu for piece of mind

it costs £15 in high quality caps if you do it your self
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Christian Brunschen 
  To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 2:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK


    

  On 17 Jun 2012, at 14:42, jammie wrote:


    the battery should not be charged thats what the diode is for 

    the battery circuit only comes into play when switched off as the

    ram circuits are feed by the psu and the battery circuit is feed into the same 3v circuit via the diode so no reverse voltage goes to the battery and theres a cap which is charged so that the 3v is constant

    when switched off the battery with its 3v charge goes through the diode and carries on charging the cap so thatthe ram chips hold the memory contents

    are you cheaking the voltage when switched of are you getting the corect voltage at the diode input and output and are you getting the correct voltage from the charging capacitor


  I was checking the voltage from the battery, via the diode and on the actual RAM Vcc pin while the keyboard was switched off: Battery was providing just over 3V, diode voltage drop was about 0.04V, power at the RAM Vcc pins was just about 3V, matching battery_voltage - diode_power_drop.


  While switched on, the RAM chip Vcc pin was receiving about 5V, as one would expect when power is on.


  I haven't investigated the capacitor.


    have you done a full hardware reset as the ram chips might have curupted data and are holding the data some times nown as ghost data


  I replaced the old battery with a battery holder + fresh battery today; so there was certainly a time when there was no battery or similar installed, and the motherboard out of its case, and no power whatsoever to the RAM chips. I've also done a system reset (Preset + top-left soft button).


  I did, in fact, also note that on one or two occasions, the memory contents has survived a power-down-and-up, but on most occasions it does not. Perhaps there is some transient power-related issue that leaves the RAM with insufficient power when the power supply is being switched off or on? Hmmm. 



    preventing good data from being written

    this is the second time inrecent weeks that i have heard a sd/32 do this

    not from any of the other models could be the sd32 mainboard thats at fualt but you need a logic anilyser and scope for this  


  Yes; I may be able to borrow a scope, to watch the power supplied to the RAM chips, if nothing else ...


  With some luck, I may have a spare power supply board that I can try - if that fixes it, it was most likely the power supply; if it doesn't, that would suggest the mainboard is at fault.


  You're in the UK, I believe?


  Best wishes,


  // Christian


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Tal Rodriguez
      To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 1:35 PM
      Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK




      Hi Christian,


      No help here except to advise to email the guy in California and see if he has a solution. If the battery is being charged then I wouldn't suspect the power supply (initially). I hope this clears up for you soon.

      Tal Rodriguez



------------------------------------------------------------------------
        From: Christian Brunschen <cb@...>
        To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
        Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:21 AM
        Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK


        Hmm. Brief perusal of the service manual, page 23, chapter TEST PROCEDURE, section 11. "Disk Change Test/Battery Backup Test (SD-1/VFX-SD Only)", suggests that "Failure indicates a main board problem or a power supply problem." - which does not really narrow things down very much alas. 

        Again, any thoughts, suggestions, etc, would be hugely appreciated.

        // Christian


        On 17 Jun 2012, at 10:46, Christian Brunschen wrote:

        > I have a strange problem with my SD-1/32.
        > 
        > I bought it used on eBay a couple of years ago; when I received it, it still had sequences and such in memory, showing that the battery was fine. Indeed, the analog tests (Preset + Compare) showed the same thing.
        > 
        > Then, a few months ago, when I started it and tried to look at the sequences in memory it told me 'The Sequencer must be Loaded' – in other words, it had completely forgotten the contents of its battery-backed memory. However, it was not complaining about a low voltage level from the battery.
        > 
        > So I figured it might be that the battery was coming loose when the keyboard was cooling off, or something similar. Anyway, I just today replaced the battery with a battery holder and a fresh battery; and the same thing still happens: battery level us shown as '142' on the analog checks page, there's no low-battery-voltage warning, everything seems to work while the keyboard is mains-powered ... but once it's powered off, the sequencer OS and the internal-RAM sounds are forgotten.
        > 
        > I've also checked - while the keyboard was off - the battery voltage (3.04V), the voltage drop across the diode to the right of the battery (0.04V) and the voltage at the power supply pin of the SRAM chips just below the battery (2.99 - 3.00V) – all of which appears to indicate that power is being supplied, and correctly, and as expected.
        > 
        > Had this been a VFX-SD or SD-1 where I had replaced the SRAM chips, those would have been my next suspicion - but on the SD-1/32, these are soldered in place, so there's no potential issue with sockets or similar.
        > 
        > So I am a bit .... lost. This isn't a crippling problem - after all, I can save-and-reload everything - but that's not really ideal and uses the floppy drive a lot. Any suggestions, thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated.
        > 
        > Best wishes,
        > 
        > // Christian Brunschen
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > 
        > ------------------------------------
        > 
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > 
        > 
        > 



        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by Eric Hall

My VFX-SD saves the sequencer fine. The only time I have to reload it is after a crash - and that happens very seldom.

Eric 



________________________________


  

Sorry if I have mis-read this thread.
The sequencer OS IS NOT SAVED at power down ! This code must be reloaded via floppy each time you want to use the sequencer. Why this was done, I do not know.  but it is the same on the EPS, VFX and SD-1.

Bill

Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK

2012-06-17 by jammie

my sequencer saves fine never have to reload it unless i do a software reset or hardware reset when changing battery

the eps has to load in its os system to work other wise its a dead brick

but the vfx-sd/sd2/sd-1/sd-1/32 and the sq1/2 ks32/ts10/12/mr/zr

all have there os on eprom and only need to do re installs when reset 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Eric Hall 
  To: Ensoniq-VFX-SD@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 4:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ensoniq-VFX-SD] SD-1/32 forgets sequencer &c, though battery seems OK


    

  My VFX-SD saves the sequencer fine. The only time I have to reload it is after a crash - and that happens very seldom.


  Eric 




------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    

  Sorry if I have mis-read this thread.
  The sequencer OS IS NOT SAVED at power down ! This code must be reloaded via floppy each time you want to use the sequencer. Why this was done, I do not know. but it is the same on the EPS, VFX and SD-1.

  Bill

Move to quarantaine

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