Patches and discussion for Ensoniq VFX family

Sorry I'm no MIDI expert - can you do more than change program number 
and volume when you control a sound module from the SD-1? 

I specifically want to select a patch bank on a JV1010 (it has six 
banks of 128 patches).

Thanks a lot.

Greetings.  From my limited knowledge of the SD1 I believe it is limited in 
that it does not have the ability to select banks. That was part of the 
upgrade to the TS. 

On programmable modules your best bet is to customize your best sounds into 
the first 60 slots of the user bank.  The SD1 can access the first 60 sounds 
of a midi module easily.  The manual has workarounds for higher numbers up to 
120, I believe, but I've not had personal success learning the commands on 
that. 

Since the 1010 is only programmable via software you would need to use that 
software program and with the librarian of the software customize your sounds 
to fit into the user bank, numbers 1-60. You could then access those 60 
sounds from the SD1. 

Alternatively, the simplest of all approaches, involving no extra work, is to 
keep the 1010 in the mode that plays the Session sound bank (or one of the 
other preset modes) and find out if you have enough usable sounds within the 
first 60 sounds of the 1010 preset bank.  Hope this helps.  Warmly yours,
Frank Fortunato

On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 04:01 PM, gowman9 wrote:

> Sorry I'm no MIDI expert - can you do more than change program number
> and volume when you control a sound module from the SD-1?
>
> I specifically want to select a patch bank on a JV1010 (it has six
> banks of 128 patches).

You can't, not without a little hardware help. The VFX series are so 
'dumb' that they won't even properly record a bank change (CC#0 or 
CC#32 (or both) depending on the manufacturer), in the sequencer 
(otherwise you could cheat with it)  even if you set XCTL to CC#0 it 
just records '0' on any value, and never transmits it back on playback 
(actually, it does if XCTL is set to CC#32, but it always sends a 0 
after any value in the sequencer, making it somewhat useless). To make 
matters worse, the event insert function in the sequencer 'track edit' 
is broken, and will only really duplicate an event *sigh*.

One thing I haven't tried, that MIGHT work, would be to take a .mid 
file and write it to an ensoniq format disk as a sequence, using the 
gheibler (sp?) tools. But I have a feeling it won't work, the VFX's 
sequences aren't probably even remotely close to MIDI internally.

Now, there MAY be a sneaky workaround using the 'SysEx send' sequence, 
as many Yamaha and Roland devices will change banks via sysex, as well 
as the CC methods. But I don't know the sysex strings offhand for my 
yamaha to test it, and even if it worked, it would be different for 
roland gear...

The best solution is probably to buy a midi footboard that sends 
bank/pgm changes, perhaps the Behringer will.

Another more obscure solution would be a device that could remap PGM 
changes to Bank+PGM, they used to exist (back when most controllers 
didn't support banks, and expanders were just starting to), but I'm not 
sure if any commercial solutions do now, they're fairly simple devices 
and any DIY midi person could knock one together if you ask around the 
'custom midi boxes' people..

> ________________________________________________________________________
>    Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:01:56 -0000
>    From: "gowman9" <gowman9@...>
> 
> Sorry I'm no MIDI expert - can you do more than change program number 
> and volume when you control a sound module from the SD-1? 
> 
> I specifically want to select a patch bank on a JV1010 (it has six 
> banks of 128 patches).

I've been controlling a JV-1080 as an external module for a few years
now, which I belive should be exactly the same from the midi cable
point of view as a JV-1010.  I'm using a VFX or a VFX-SD (I have one
of each), not an SD-1.

More below.

> ________________________________________________________________________
>    Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:40:10 EST
>    From: ffort2@...
> 
> Greetings.  From my limited knowledge of the SD1 I believe it is limited in 
> that it does not have the ability to select banks. That was part of the 
> upgrade to the TS. 
> 
> On programmable modules your best bet is to customize your best
> sounds into the first 60 slots of the user bank.  The SD1 can access
> the first 60 sounds of a midi module easily.  The manual has
> workarounds for higher numbers up to 120, I believe, but I've not
> had personal success learning the commands on that.

The work arounds you're referring to are for controlling the SD-1
through it's MIDI in port -- it has 180 internal sounds, but there are
only 128 program change numbers, and patch bank select did not exist
at the time -- and have little to do with controlling an external
module from the SD-1.  You can send any program change (1-128) from
the VFX to an external module just fine.

However, the recommendation about gathering the sounds you want into
the user bank is a good one; this is the way I operate.  (although
it's much easier when you can copy from one of the ROM banks to the
user bank via the front pannel, which I'm not sure can be done with
the JV-1010).

It is true that without external hardware of some sort, you can't get
a bank change message out of the VFX.

You can get all 128 program change messages out, though, and on any of
the 16 channels.  I've been using the 3-voice "presets" for this sort
of control, because they exist in both the VFX-SD and the Vanilla
VFX.  Presumably, you could do the same thing with a song or sequence,
using it as an "uber preset."  With the added advantage that you can
give it a name on the VFX display, rather than "*EXT MIDI CH 1*" or
whatever it is I see in my display -- which could be important with
the JV-1010, as the sound names aren't listed on the front pannel like
they are on my JV-1080.

Using the presets, I have found that when you select a preset, the
program changes listed in the preset are sent in order from left to
right, regardless of whether the part is "active" or not (I.e. it's
the same whether there's a solid underline, blinking underline, or no
underline).  At least, that's the way I remember it working.  If you
then select one of the 3 sounds, it's program change is sent again.

Some presets I use have program changes for 3 similar or related
sounds, on the same midi channel; the rightmost one is the one that
comes up selected; then I can choose either of the other two sounds by
pressing its soft button.

So, knowing that, return to the JV and what it can do given a program
change.  There are, more or less, two modes that the JV can be in,
patch mode and performance mode.  

Patch mode receives on one channel, and program changes select a sound
within the current bank, and all the effects parameters from the sound
load into the effects.  Loading all your desired patches into the user
bank and using patch mode is one way to go, and the one I use mostly,
because I mostly play live, single sounds or layers, and rarely use
multi-timbral sequences.

Performace mode is multi-timbral, up to 16 parts, one of which (part
10) must be drums.  Each part's receive channel can be set
independently.  You can have each part on its own channel, or you can
have more than one part on a single channel for splits and layers.
Assuming you leave each part on its own channel, you can send program
change messages to a part and it will select a new program -- from the
CURRENT bank for that program.  

If you're catching my drift, you could set up a performance where part
1 is on midi channel 1 and has a patch from the user bank, part 2 on
midi channel 2 has a patch from preset bank A, part 3 on midi 3 has a
patch from preset bank B, and so on; then you can select any patch
from 15 banks of the JV by altering both the midi channel and program
change number you send.

However, like the VFX, the JV's multitimbral mode only has one effects
unit, and you won't usually get the effects stored with the patch.

There are ways to partially get around this also, but I fear I'm
already quite off-topic, and also long winded.  If you understand what
I've said so far, and read up on what the JV can do, you'll probably
figure out the rest (hint: one program change to change the
performance, followed by another to change the patch).  

One last note:  It's my guess that the velocity curve that Roland
keyboards send doesn't match the VFX or SD-1 very well.  I find that I
often want to edit the velocity curve of the Roland patches;
therefore, they end up in the User patch bank anyway.  (The User bank
on the Roland is like the RAM bank on the Ensoniq -- the only place
you can store your own changes).

--> Steve

Thanks a lot Steve, that's very helpful advice!

Cheers

James

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:29:45 -0600, "Steve Wahl" <steve@...> said:
> This message only has an HTML part -- this is a text generated
> representation
> 
> 
>    >
>    ______________________________________________________________________
>    __
>    >    Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 21:01:56 -0000
>    >    From: "gowman9" <gowman9@...>
>    >
>    >  Sorry  I'm  no  MIDI  expert  - can you do more than change program
>    number
>    > and volume when you control a sound module from the SD-1?
>    >
>    > I specifically want to select a patch bank on a JV1010 (it has six
>    > banks of 128 patches).
>    I've been controlling a JV-1080 as an external module for a few years
>    now, which I belive should be exactly the same from the midi cable
>    point of view as a JV-1010.  I'm using a VFX or a VFX-SD (I have one
>    of each), not an SD-1.
>    More below.
>    >
>    ______________________________________________________________________
>    __
>    >    Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 16:40:10 EST
>    >    From: ffort2@...
>    >
>    >  Greetings.   From  my  limited knowledge of the SD1 I believe it is
>    limited in
>    >  that it does not have the ability to select banks. That was part of
>    the
>    > upgrade to the TS.
>    >
>    > On programmable modules your best bet is to customize your best
>    > sounds into the first 60 slots of the user bank.  The SD1 can access
>    > the first 60 sounds of a midi module easily.  The manual has
>    > workarounds for higher numbers up to 120, I believe, but I've not
>    > had personal success learning the commands on that.
>    The work arounds you're referring to are for controlling the SD-1
>    through it's MIDI in port -- it has 180 internal sounds, but there are
>    only 128 program change numbers, and patch bank select did not exist
>    at the time -- and have little to do with controlling an external
>    module from the SD-1.  You can send any program change (1-128) from
>    the VFX to an external module just fine.
>    However, the recommendation about gathering the sounds you want into
>    the user bank is a good one; this is the way I operate.  (although
>    it's much easier when you can copy from one of the ROM banks to the
>    user bank via the front pannel, which I'm not sure can be done with
>    the JV-1010).
>    It is true that without external hardware of some sort, you can't get
>    a bank change message out of the VFX.
>    You can get all 128 program change messages out, though, and on any of
>    the 16 channels.  I've been using the 3-voice "presets" for this sort
>    of control, because they exist in both the VFX-SD and the Vanilla
>    VFX.  Presumably, you could do the same thing with a song or sequence,
>    using it as an "uber preset."  With the added advantage that you can
>    give it a name on the VFX display, rather than "*EXT MIDI CH 1*" or
>    whatever it is I see in my display -- which could be important with
>    the JV-1010, as the sound names aren't listed on the front pannel like
>    they are on my JV-1080.
>    Using the presets, I have found that when you select a preset, the
>    program changes listed in the preset are sent in order from left to
>    right, regardless of whether the part is "active" or not (I.e. it's
>    the same whether there's a solid underline, blinking underline, or no
>    underline).  At least, that's the way I remember it working.  If you
>    then select one of the 3 sounds, it's program change is sent again.
>    Some presets I use have program changes for 3 similar or related
>    sounds, on the same midi channel; the rightmost one is the one that
>    comes up selected; then I can choose either of the other two sounds by
>    pressing its soft button.
>    So, knowing that, return to the JV and what it can do given a program
>    change.  There are, more or less, two modes that the JV can be in,
>    patch mode and performance mode.
>    Patch mode receives on one channel, and program changes select a sound
>    within the current bank, and all the effects parameters from the sound
>    load into the effects.  Loading all your desired patches into the user
>    bank and using patch mode is one way to go, and the one I use mostly,
>    because I mostly play live, single sounds or layers, and rarely use
>    multi-timbral sequences.
>    Performace mode is multi-timbral, up to 16 parts, one of which (part
>    10) must be drums.  Each part's receive channel can be set
>    independently.  You can have each part on its own channel, or you can
>    have more than one part on a single channel for splits and layers.
>    Assuming you leave each part on its own channel, you can send program
>    change messages to a part and it will select a new program -- from the
>    CURRENT bank for that program.
>    If you're catching my drift, you could set up a performance where part
>    1 is on midi channel 1 and has a patch from the user bank, part 2 on
>    midi channel 2 has a patch from preset bank A, part 3 on midi 3 has a
>    patch from preset bank B, and so on; then you can select any patch
>    from 15 banks of the JV by altering both the midi channel and program
>    change number you send.
>    However, like the VFX, the JV's multitimbral mode only has one effects
>    unit, and you won't usually get the effects stored with the patch.
>    There are ways to partially get around this also, but I fear I'm
>    already quite off-topic, and also long winded.  If you understand what
>    I've said so far, and read up on what the JV can do, you'll probably
>    figure out the rest (hint: one program change to change the
>    performance, followed by another to change the patch).
>    One last note:  It's my guess that the velocity curve that Roland
>    keyboards send doesn't match the VFX or SD-1 very well.  I find that I
>    often want to edit the velocity curve of the Roland patches;
>    therefore, they end up in the User patch bank anyway.  (The User bank
>    on the Roland is like the RAM bank on the Ensoniq -- the only place
>    you can store your own changes).
>    --> Steve
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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