Fairlight-CMI

Dear all,

What paint has been used on the music keyboard ? I wish to repair some
scratches.

What would the difference in value be if an unsratched music keyboard is
compared to a sratched one ? (US dollars)

Thanks,
Harald.

This question is rather urgent, as a unit got damaged in transport and the
insurance wants to know how high the damage is.

Cette question est urgente.


So:
My music keyboard has been scratched in transport. I wish to repair it,
but it may be worth less. I would like to know what the difference in
value is between a *mint*, as in *unscratched* music keyboard and a
scratched one for the insurance. Also I would like to know what paint was
used on the music keyboard and where to order any spare if possible.

Thanks,
Harald.

Je vais essayer traduire cette question aussi en francais:

Mon clavier de musique a été rayé dans le transport. Je souhaite le
réparer, mais il peut être en valeur moins. Je voudrais savoir ce qu'est
la différence en valeur entre un clavier de musique en bon état et rayé
pour l'assurance. En outre je voudriais savoir quelle peinture en ont été
utilisés sur le clavier de musique et où commander disponibles si
possible.

Merci, Harald

> Dear all,
>
> What paint has been used on the music keyboard ? I wish to repair some
> scratches.
>
> What would the difference in value be if an unsratched music keyboard is
> compared to a sratched one ? (US dollars)
>
> Thanks,
> Harald.

> What paint has been used on the music keyboard ? I wish to repair 
> some scratches.

Not sure where you are geographically - but in the UK we have a paint
called 'Hammerite' which gives the tempered / hammered finish
(available in both a spray and tin) - when one of my Series II's was
damaged in shipping a very competent fibreglass technician managed to
repair the monitor shroud and repaint it with black Hammerite - it
looks like new now :-)

> What would the difference in value be if an unsratched music 
> keyboard is compared to a sratched one ? (US dollars)

These machines are now more than 20 years old - so they will have a
few 'knocks' each. I think it's unlikely you'd find one that has *no*
marks - that hasn't been restored in the past!

This wasn't helped by the poor quality of construction originally - so
many Fairlight CMI II and III keyboards I've seen have had the corners
broken off where the MDF couldn't take the abuse of being moved.

One joy of the CMI II and III keyboard is that they're easy to repaint
and restore - if you remove the keyboard top (the MDF / wooden part)
which is about 10 minutes work, sand it down completely, then ask a
friendly car paint shop to prime it (being wood it's needs correct
priming first) and paint with the correct colour it shouldn't cost
more than $100 or so - and it's worth the effort - I have two
beautifully restored keyboards and they look stunning.

If only the original (round ended) key *actions* were so easy to
restore! :-)

As to the effect on value - a few small scratches shouldn't matter -
but if the keyboard needs complete restoration (from an aesthetic
point of view) then I'd reckon on $300 less?  If the action needs work
- less still.

I had to purchase a fully restored keyboard from John Hills of
Synhouse, when a Series II got very badly damaged in transit - this
cost me around $1,000 plus shipping and import duty - and they're
getting hard to find in good condition now.

HTH

Best rgds,


Philip

Hi Harald,

I don't know if there's an answer to your question...
First, it depends how you consider the Fairlight you
bought. If it is to your eyes a collector item, the
original paint may be of great value to you and you
will not be able to repair the damage unless you find
another keyboard in perfect condition. So the repair
cost is really hight here...

In an other hand, if the Fairlight you received is just
a music instrument for you and want the scratches to
be fixed then it's another story... I know the music
keyboard cover is wood made. But there's something (I
don't know what) between the wood and the paint which
gives a plastic finition. If this is damaged, it may
be difficult to repair.

Regards.

	Laurent.

> Hi Harald,

Hello Laurent and Philip,

Thank you for your replies.

> I don't know if there's an answer to your question...
> First, it depends how you consider the Fairlight you
> bought. If it is to your eyes a collector item, the

In this particular case, it is a collector's item as it is in *MINT*
condition, it looked as if it just came out of the original box, but I can
confirm it had the original paint.

>Philip:> These machines are now more than 20 years old - so they will have a
> few 'knocks' each. I think it's unlikely you'd find one that has *no*
> marks - that hasn't been restored in the past!

No *prominently visible* marks, original paint.

> many Fairlight CMI II and III keyboards I've seen have had the corners
> broken off where the MDF couldn't take the abuse of being moved.

This one spent its entire life in one studio.

> priming first) and paint with the correct colour it shouldn't cost

Would you know the correct color number and make ?

I have shipped it with a courier (whose services I have used in the past
for this sort of transport).
I was very disappointed to see a professionally packed (ATA flightcases)
unit to have received unneccessary scratches.

>Philip: > Not sure where you are geographically - but in the UK we have a
paint
> called 'Hammerite' which gives the tempered / hammered finish

I am aware of hammerite, but I doubt white will give the original white
paint effect on wood as Hammerite seems to be metal paint.

> repair the monitor shroud and repaint it with black Hammerite - it
> looks like new now :-)

Lucky you :)

> keyboard cover is wood made. But there's something (I
> don't know what) between the wood and the paint which
> gives a plastic finition. If this is damaged, it may
> be difficult to repair.

The scratch seems to run to the wood, it is a brownish color on the top
cover of the music keyboard.

> cost me around $1,000 plus shipping and import duty - and they're
> getting hard to find in good condition now.

Arrgg.. :)

> Regards.
> 	Laurent.

> Best rgds,
> Philip


Best regards,
Harald.

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, feldmann@x wrote:
> >Philip:> These machines are now more than 20 years old - so they
> > will have a few 'knocks' each. I think it's unlikely you'd find 
> > one that has *no* marks - that hasn't been restored in the past!
> 
> No *prominently visible* marks, original paint.

What a shame - you have my commiserations - BUT - if the rest of the
system is minty fresh then scratches to the keyboard shouldn't drag
down the value apart from the cost of repairing the keyboard. The fact
that the paint won't be 'original' shouldn't matter as long as it
colour and texture matches.

Items of MUCH greater importance are things like:

1) documentation - this is quite hard to find in it's original form
2) lightpen - if damaged they're virtually irreplaceable I'm told
3) monitor condition - does the image waver? Lightpen pick up ok?
4) drive condition - these are $250 to recondition - each!
5) sound library - this makes the machine more desirable.

What I'm trying to say is - scratches to the keyboard won't affect the
value of a system anywhere as much as things like the above - if it's
a minty fresh, well cared for machine in perfect working order with a
comprehensive sound library then I wouldn't worry too much about
scratches on the keyboard that can be repaired - after all - it's the
easiest bit to sort out!

> > priming first) and paint with the correct colour it shouldn't cost
> 
> Would you know the correct color number and make ?

No - but having looked at several Series II's it appears the colour
hue changed very slightly over the years.

Most car / auto body finishers will have a 'paint mix scheme' -
Glasurit, PPG, Max Meyer ICI for example all provide swatches of paint
colours (thousands of them!) which the body shop can then use to mix
up on site and get a precise match - BUT - you need the 'crinkle'
finish... there is a technique for this but I can't remember the name
for it - if you ever look at the bottom of the sill plates on say a
Porsche 911 they have a textured 'stone chipping' surface that's the
same finish. Any good bodyshop should be able to mix the colour to
match and 'blow in' the finish to suit.


> >Philip: > Not sure where you are geographically - but in the UK we 
> > have a paint called 'Hammerite' which gives the tempered / 
> > hammered finish
>
> I am aware of hammerite, but I doubt white will give the original
> white paint effect on wood as Hammerite seems to be metal paint.

It can be used on any surface with the appropriate primer - the
'brown' colour your seeing underneath the white exterior paint is the
Fairlight original primer they appear to have used (when the original
keyboard with one of my II's got smashed, I was able to see *exactly*
how they'd been made!).

With a primer on the wood hammerite can be applied.

> > repair the monitor shroud and repaint it with black Hammerite - it
> > looks like new now :-)
> 
> Lucky you :)

I was severely upset when the courier delivered mine damaged so I can
sympathise - but you should be able to get this sorted out.


> The scratch seems to run to the wood, it is a brownish color on the 
> top cover of the music keyboard.

This brownish colour is the primer - the wood is actually cheap MDF /
chipboard :-)  Well, $80,000 when new kind of cheap!

Good luck




Philip

Philip wrote: >

>> No *prominently visible* marks, original paint.
>
> What a shame - you have my commiserations

Thank you :)

I think I had not mentioned it, but it is a series III.

> 1) documentation - this is quite hard to find in it's original form
Original docs and the preliminary 5.04 manual (heavy).
Original reference cards.

> 2) lightpen - if damaged they're virtually irreplaceable I'm told
It has the stylus in mint condition so it seems.

> 3) monitor condition - does the image waver? Lightpen pick up ok?
The original series III monitor.

> 4) drive condition - these are $250 to recondition - each!
Untested.

> 5) sound library - this makes the machine more desirable.
It came with several libraries.

> What I'm trying to say is - scratches to the keyboard won't affect the
> value of a system anywhere as much as things like the above - if it's
> a minty fresh, well cared for machine in perfect working order with a
> comprehensive sound library then I wouldn't worry too much about
> scratches on the keyboard that can be repaired - after all - it's the
> easiest bit to sort out!

Allright. So you'd reckon the 'value' damage would be US$ 500 or less ?

>> Would you know the correct color number and make ?
>
> No - but having looked at several Series II's it appears the colour
> hue changed very slightly over the years.

Did the color change with series III as well ?

> Most car / auto body finishers will have a 'paint mix scheme' -
> Glasurit, PPG, Max Meyer ICI for example all provide swatches of paint
> colours (thousands of them!) which the body shop can then use to mix
> up on site and get a precise match - BUT - you need the 'crinkle'
> finish... there is a technique for this but I can't remember the name
> for it - if you ever look at the bottom of the sill plates on say a
> Porsche 911 they have a textured 'stone chipping' surface that's the
> same finish.

I understand what you mean.
Nice comparison :)

> Any good bodyshop should be able to mix the colour to
> match and 'blow in' the finish to suit.

Which would come at a price, has anyone reading this actually done this ?
What was the cost for this ?

>> >Philip: > Not sure where you are geographically - but in the UK we

I'm sorry I had not answered this, in the Netherlands.

>> I am aware of hammerite, but I doubt white will give the original
>> white paint effect on wood as Hammerite seems to be metal paint.
>
> It can be used on any surface with the appropriate primer - the
> 'brown' colour your seeing underneath the white exterior paint is the
> Fairlight original primer they appear to have used (when the original
> keyboard with one of my II's got smashed, I was able to see *exactly*
> how they'd been made!).

Fascinating...

> With a primer on
>  the wood hammerite can be applied.

I'll check with a paintstore.

>> Lucky you :)
>
> I was severely upset when the courier delivered mine damaged so I can
> sympathise - but you should be able to get this sorted out.

Did you file for damages with the courier ?

> This brownish colour is the primer - the wood is actually cheap MDF /
> chipboard :-)  Well, $80,000 when new kind of cheap!

:)

> Good luck

Thanks !

Harald.

--- In Fairlight-CMI@yahoogroups.com, feldmann@x wrote:
> I think I had not mentioned it, but it is a series III.

Aha - ok this is a little different - the Series III keyboard is
basically the same unit (internally) but a slightly lighter shade of
colour - they're roughly the same physical size though - so
restoration of the paint finish would cost broadly the same.
 
> Allright. So you'd reckon the 'value' damage would be US$ 500 or 
> less ?

It's hard to say without seeing it - but if the damage is only to the
paint finish of the wooden top cover then this shouldn't cost much
more than £150 or $300 to repair - if the wooden structure is damaged
(mine was completely smashed) then obviously this would cost much more.  

BTW - I recently bought a Series III keyboard for my MFX 2 from Peter
Wielk and paid around £1,000 for it - so they are still generally
available, unlike Series II keyboards which I understand are becoming
hard to find.

> > > Would you know the correct color number and make ?
> >
> > No - but having looked at several Series II's it appears the 
> > colour hue changed very slightly over the years.
> 
> Did the color change with series III as well ?

Yes - it's a much lighter shade - almost a 'dirty' white versus a
beige / cream of the Series II

> > Any good bodyshop should be able to mix the colour to
> > match and 'blow in' the finish to suit.
> 
> Which would come at a price, has anyone reading this actually done 
> this ? What was the cost for this ?

No - this is not at all expensive - I own a classic car restoration
company with bodyshop - trust me - it's not expensive at all - a few
pounds / dollars at most to mix up the colour for the amount of paint
needed for a Series II / Series III keyboard :-) Put it this way - to
repaint an entire car with the highest quality paint, the materials
cost no more than £300!  To paint an area the size of a Fairlight
keyboard, the paint should cost no more than £20 or $40 at the very most.

> > I was severely upset when the courier delivered mine damaged so I 
> > can sympathise - but you should be able to get this sorted out.
> 
> Did you file for damages with the courier ?

I use a freight forwarding agent for all my shipping - and they always
comprehensively cover my equipment in transit - so yes, I was covered
and we claimed for full recovery of the costs - including importing
the replacement keyboard - I have to say, that in all the shipments
they've handled (well over 100), this was the only problem we've ever had.


Philip

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:54:29 -0000, "pmjtaysom" <philip@taysom.co.uk>
wrote:

>It's hard to say without seeing it - but if the damage is only to the
>paint finish of the wooden top cover then this shouldn't cost much
>more than ?150 or $300 to repair - 

I checked more thoroughly, the wood is undamaged. It is the upper
layer.

>BTW - I recently bought a Series III keyboard for my MFX 2 from Peter
>Wielk and paid around ?1,000 for it - so they are still generally
>available, unlike Series II keyboards which I understand are becoming
>hard to find.

Good that they still are available.

>No - this is not at all expensive - 
>... the paint should cost no more than ?20 or $40 at the very most.

<sigh of relief :)>

>I use a freight forwarding agent for all my shipping - and they always
>comprehensively cover my equipment in transit - so yes, I was covered
>and we claimed for full recovery of the costs - including importing
>the replacement keyboard - I have to say, that in all the shipments
>they've handled (well over 100), this was the only problem we've ever had.

>Philip

Glad to hear that you had good experiences generally.
Which company is it, if I may ask ?

Regards,
Harald.