Homebrew PCBs

I'm curious about this flexible PCB. You say you've run it thru a
laser printer. Were you able to make a circuit? 

Is it possible to buy the stuff in hobbiest quantities?

Thanks much,
Royce


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Myc Holmes" <mycroft2152y@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
> 
> The flex pcb stock is 6" x 9", contact me off list with your address
if you
> would like some.
> 
> I have fed it directly through the R220 and laser printer as well as
taping
> it to a regular page carrier sheet.
> 
> Myc
> 
> On 7/25/06, Andrew <andrewm1973@...> wrote:
> >
> >   I have a design jet 5000 here - the 42" 6
> > colour (CcYMmK) version. I can print on
> > small single sheets of paper - however
> > loading them is a pain - so I always just
> > leave the A0 (36") rolls installed.
> >
> > With ours at least I don't think the inks
> > are UV cured. They smell like they have a
> > solvent in them rather than just water
> > based though. We did not get any special
> > options with it for printing on anything
> > but paper/vinyl - so the UV curing must be
> > special.
> >
> > The carts for this one are a box about 1-2
> > liters in volume. Don't think they are
> > all ink inside though as they dont weight
> > 2 kilograms. The light Cyan cart is 95%
> > empty so I will investigate further when
> > I swap it in the next few weeks.
> >
> > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "lcdpublishing"
> >
> > <lcdpublishing@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This printer is the DesignJet 500. I think the ink tanks are around
> > > $30.00 or so. That's the funny part about this printer. It doesn't
> > > get much use at all. I only print about 30 line drawings on about 5
> > > times a year. So, most of the ink it's used has leaked out or is
> > > sitting in that ink well :-(
> > >
> > > The ink tanks are big, much bigger than the ones we use on desktop
> > > printers. So, it it isn't leaking, they last a long time - I can't
> > > remember the last time I bought some.
> > >
> > > Seeing as this printer is 24" wide, and I don't know the minimum
> > > size it can print on (I am always printing from a 24" roll), I don't
> > > know if I can feed a small sheet through it. How big of a sheet of
> > > that PCB material do you have?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Myc Holmes"
> > > <mycroft2152y@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I think almost any UV source would work, probably not LEDs.
> > > Exposure time
> > > > will be dependant on the source and the thickness of the ink. Put
> > > it out on
> > > > a sunny day. :)
> > > >
> > > > What is the model # and how much are the cartridges. What do you
> > > use to
> > > > clean up the mes? Just curious.
> > > >
> > > > If you really get annoyed one day, I can send you some paper thin
> > > pcb
> > > > material. It feeds through an regular inkjet and laser printer
> > > just fine.
> > > >
> > > > Myc
> > > >
> > > > On 7/25/06, lcdpublishing <lcdpublishing@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mycroft,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not certain of the INK, my only exposure with it is when I
> > > have
> > > > > problems with that printer and usually it's a messy
problem!!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > That printer has a problem that i have yet to figure out. When
> > > > > printing some drawings, it seems as though it is pissing out ink
> > > > > like a race horse. I end up with drops of black ink everywhere.
> > > > > The ink-well where I think the head goes for cleaning is now so
> > > full
> > > > > it is leaking onto the floor - just noticed that this morning.
> > > > >
> > > > > HP says it has a leaking hose - hogwash I say. I think something
> > > > > else is wrong based on my observations. HP also wants
$170.00 for
> > > > > the stupid hoses so that I can replace them to "See if that
> > > corrects
> > > > > the problem".
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, what I am getting to is this. Usually the mess I find is
> > > > > large drops of ink. Just guessing, I would say it is thicker
than
> > > > > Epson ink - just a hunch though. Furthermore, the spilled ink
> > > never
> > > > > seems to dry - it's just a big ole mess.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the printer acts up on a day when I am in a really bad mood
> > > (like
> > > > > what has been happening lately alot), I may end up running a PCB
> > > > > through that damn thing just to see if it will work for our
> > > process.
> > > > >
> > > > > I really don't know much more about that printer. It's big, it's
> > > > > expensive, it makes big messes, it annoys the heck out of me,
> > > but I
> > > > > need it for business.
> > > > >
> > > > > The next time it "Leaks ink from the hose", I will try to scoop
> > > some
> > > > > up and put it on a PCB to test. However, how would I cure the
> > > ink?
> > > > > What would I use for a UV light source for something like that?
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com<Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com><Homebrew_PCBs%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > "Myc Holmes"
> > > > >
> > > > > <mycroft2152y@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would think a UV cure system would be they way to go. You
> > > could
> > > > > even
> > > > > > 'cure' the board outside the printer. Unless your are very
> > > > > careful, light
> > > > > > 'spillage" in the printer will cure the ink on the head or
glue
> > > > > the head to
> > > > > > excess ink pad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The high solids UV cure systems are used to reduce VOC
> > > (Volatile
> > > > > Organic
> > > > > > compounds) emissions in industry to meet air quality
standards.
> > > > > These still
> > > > > > do have minor amounts of solvents and tend to be very viscous
> > > > > (thick).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris, have you ever looked at the ink used in the HP? how
> > > does it
> > > > > compare
> > > > > > to the MIS or Epson ink as far as viscosity (flow
> > > > > characteristics)? Is the
> > > > > > inkjet head heated? What kind of cleaning cycle does it use?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So what is needed? Starting with an Epson piezo print
head, you
> > > > > need a
> > > > > > fluid that has the same flow and drying characteristics as the
> > > > > pigment ink.
> > > > > > That means, water based, small particle size, and 'slow'
> > > drying.
> > > > > Also it has
> > > > > > to have the proper wetting out characteristics and adhesion to
> > > the
> > > > > prepared
> > > > > > copper pcb, both before and after the cure step. Of course it
> > > has
> > > > > to be
> > > > > > applied in a layer thick enough and durable to survive the
> > > etching
> > > > > bath.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Finally, it has to be KISS simple, inexpensive and easily
> > > > > available.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I've been thinking about this for quite a while, and the only
> > > > > possibility
> > > > > > that I have been able to come up with, short of specially
> > > > > compounding, is
> > > > > > the spray-on photo sensitizing liquid for pcbs. It has the
> > > proper
> > > > > after
> > > > > > printer characteristics. the question is what needs to be done
> > > to
> > > > > get it
> > > > > > through the EPSON print head successfully.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Up until just recently, I have not had an Epson printer to
> > > > > experiment with,
> > > > > > only the Lexmarks's that use the vaporized droplet method.
> > > Since
> > > > > there are 6
> > > > > > separate heads on the R220, I think a few could be sacrificed
> > > to
> > > > > try this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Myc
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 7/25/06, Leon Heller <leon.heller@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "lcdpublishing" <lcdpublishing@ <lcdpublishing%
> > > > > 40yahoo.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To:
<Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com<Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com><Homebrew_PCBs%
> > > 40yahoogroups.com><Homebrew_PCBs%
> > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>>
> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 1:12 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Epson R220 PCB printing Report
> > > #1
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I would suspect that you would be better off finding/using
> > > a UV
> > > > > > > > cured Ink. My large HP Printer (24" wide) uses UV cured
> > > ink but
> > > > > > > > being a big and expensive printer, I have not yet had the
> > > > > courage to
> > > > > > > > try and run a PCB through it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With that system, if I understand it correctly, the print
> > > head
> > > > > puts
> > > > > > > > the ink on the paper, and next to the print head is a UV
> > > light
> > > > > > > > source that cures it instantly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Some day I would like get the guts up to run a PCB through
> > > it,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > > that won't happen anytime soon I am afraid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's how industrial ink jet printers work, for printing on
> > > all
> > > > > sorts of
> > > > > > > materials, including PCBs.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Leon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>