Homebrew PCBs

I have been reading with much interest all that I can about the Laser
toner transfer method of making PC boards and after a few attempts
have been absolutely thrilled with the results I have been getting. 
Although I do no think this will work well for SSOP it is still a
wonderful process. (btw I have not had time to work with this for 20
years so you can imagine my elation at where this process is today) I
am using a software package called Diptrace plus's very easy to create
components for your own library, very intuitive to use and does a
pretty fair job of autorouting and best of all it is free if your
projects stay under limited number of connections. I have uploaded a
couple of images of the last board I made. Check John M Board. Used
Diptrace autorouting on it, or a lot of it.  This board was made using
Press n Peel Blue, Hp Laserjet 1012. Both films - top and bottom - 
were aligned with a bright light and taped on three sides. The cleaned
PC board was then slipped into the "pouch". Used the Techniks Press at
275 deg for 3.5 minutes. Etched in the HCL – H2O2 solution  - love it
thanks guys. The board traces are mostly .018 with .018 spacing. The
board overall is 3.5x4.5. Yes it is populated and works great!
If you look at the board you will see that I used a cross hatch pour.
I have found that a lot of the toner adhesion problems are caused by
air bubbles trapped between the film and the board. This air needs
somewhere to go if there is to be adhesion. The crosshatch pattern
gives this trapped air some small pockets to escape to. I have seen
this type of problem on several of the posted boards images. I hope
this idea helps.
I would also suspicion that Press n Peel will have some limited use as
my boards become more complex and I utilize finer traces. The traces
appear wider on the board when transferred than when printed. Also the
finer the traces the more problem the trapped air bubbles will create. 
For what its worth and THANKS to all those in this group who have
taught so much by posting their experiences.

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:34:29 +0100, jam5411 <j@...> wrote:

> Although I do no think this will work well for SSOP it is still a
>
> wonderful process.


it will work for that too.

I did 0.5mm pitch thin flatpack (the ones without real leads) with no  
problems, but you need a 600DPI printer.

ST

JohnM, I have done .5 mm also with no trouble. It amazes me that it 
can work so well - seems so crude but works so well!  I appreciate 
the helpful tips too about the air bubbles. If you look at my most 
recent project at http://kenny.trussell.biz/pcboards/, you will see 
I had problems with coverage and touched up with a Sharpie pen.

I have not done double-sided yet. I do have a question for someone 
about the "pouch". When you slide the board in, how do you assure 
that both sides of the pouch are still equally positioned? If the 
paper curvature is different for one side than the other where edge 
of the board meets the bound side of the pouch, wouldn't you get an 
ofset? (not sure I explained that well) For single sided boards, I 
trim my transparency or paper (whichever I am using) to just the 
outline of the board. Do you keep it a lot larger? Help from all 
appreciated.

I am working on three related board layouts now. At least one could 
be double-sided.

Kenny

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:34:29 +0100, jam5411 <j@mardock.us> wrote:
> 
> > Although I do no think this will work well for SSOP it is still a
> >
> > wonderful process.
> 
> 
> it will work for that too.
> 
> I did 0.5mm pitch thin flatpack (the ones without real leads) with 
no  

> problems, but you need a 600DPI printer.
> 
> ST
>

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:34:50 +0100, kennytrussell  
<kenneth.trussell@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have not done double-sided yet. I do have a question for someone
>
> about the "pouch". When you slide the board in, how do you assure
>
> that both sides of the pouch are still equally positioned? If the
>
> paper curvature is different for one side than the other where edge
>
> of the board meets the bound side of the pouch, wouldn't you get an
>
> ofset? (not sure I explained that well) For single sided boards, I
>
> trim my transparency or paper (whichever I am using) to just the
>
> outline of the board. Do you keep it a lot larger? Help from all
>
> appreciated.


Yes, the curvature causes an error for me. If i put in in a folded-over  
piece of thin cardboard the curve is much more gradual and not a problem.

ST

I'm not sure I understand where you put the cardboard.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:34:50 +0100, kennytrussell  
> <kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I have not done double-sided yet. I do have a question for 
someone
> >
> > about the "pouch". When you slide the board in, how do you assure
> >
> > that both sides of the pouch are still equally positioned? If the
> >
> > paper curvature is different for one side than the other where 
edge
> >
> > of the board meets the bound side of the pouch, wouldn't you get 
an
> >
> > ofset? (not sure I explained that well) For single sided boards, 
I
> >
> > trim my transparency or paper (whichever I am using) to just the
> >
> > outline of the board. Do you keep it a lot larger? Help from all
> >
> > appreciated.
> 
> 
> Yes, the curvature causes an error for me. If i put in in a folded-
over  
> piece of thin cardboard the curve is much more gradual and not a 
problem.

> 
> ST
>

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:09:15 +0100, kennytrussell  
<kenneth.trussell@...> wrote:

> I'm not sure I understand where you put the cardboard.
>


I fold the cardboard over in the middle, and then put the whole spiel (PCB  
with layout paper on both sides) inside this.
Then i feed it into the fuser folded edge first.

You could also try tacking the paper with a iron first if you have  
problems.

ST

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:34:50 +0100, kennytrussell  
> <kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I have not done double-sided yet. I do have a question for someone
> >
> > about the "pouch". When you slide the board in, how do you assure
> >
> > that both sides of the pouch are still equally positioned? If the
> >
> > paper curvature is different for one side than the other where edge
> >
> > of the board meets the bound side of the pouch, wouldn't you get an
> >
> > ofset? (not sure I explained that well) For single sided boards, I
> >
> > trim my transparency or paper (whichever I am using) to just the
> >
> > outline of the board. Do you keep it a lot larger? Help from all
> >
> > appreciated.
> 
> 
> Yes, the curvature causes an error for me. If i put in in a
folded-over  
> piece of thin cardboard the curve is much more gradual and not a
problem.
> 
> ST
>

Using the Press n Peel I leave roughly 3/8inch overlap from the laser
print out. This is 3/8" larger than the board outline. (Diptrace will
print the board outline which is helpful to check alignment as you
assemble the pouch.) Again this is a rough idea I do it by eye and if
there is more because the board outline does not fit the press n peel
there may be more hanging over. ie press n peel is 8+ wide and I have
a board that is 3" I dont try to save the small amount of press n peel
that would be left over (2*(3+(2*3/8))) - gees John... I let the
rigidty of the pouch kinda self center the PC board Stock. Easier to
do than explain. After it comes out of the heated press and cold
water, the press n peel falls off, the board is dried and inspected.
If OK at that point then I will drill some small holes at the board
outline corner - usually .15. If these line up with the same point on
both sides of the board then the board is assumed to be in alignment.
Etch and enjoy. I have only had one time that this method failed and I
could attribute that to an error I made while  closing the press.
Forgot my paper spacer and tried to open press and insert it... I will
be making some more in the next few days and will upload some pix if
you like

John

John,
This was very helpful. I really appreciate it! I'm not familiar with 
the press you use. I'm still using an iron but I will look into what 
you have.

Please do upload the pictures!
Kenny

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "jam5411" <j@m...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:34:50 +0100, kennytrussell  
> > <kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > I have not done double-sided yet. I do have a question for 
someone
> > >
> > > about the "pouch". When you slide the board in, how do you 
assure
> > >
> > > that both sides of the pouch are still equally positioned? If 
the
> > >
> > > paper curvature is different for one side than the other where 
edge
> > >
> > > of the board meets the bound side of the pouch, wouldn't you 
get an
> > >
> > > ofset? (not sure I explained that well) For single sided 
boards, I
> > >
> > > trim my transparency or paper (whichever I am using) to just 
the
> > >
> > > outline of the board. Do you keep it a lot larger? Help from 
all
> > >
> > > appreciated.
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, the curvature causes an error for me. If i put in in a
> folded-over  
> > piece of thin cardboard the curve is much more gradual and not a
> problem.
> > 
> > ST
> >
> 
> Using the Press n Peel I leave roughly 3/8inch overlap from the 
laser
> print out. This is 3/8" larger than the board outline. (Diptrace 
will
> print the board outline which is helpful to check alignment as you
> assemble the pouch.) Again this is a rough idea I do it by eye and 
if
> there is more because the board outline does not fit the press n 
peel
> there may be more hanging over. ie press n peel is 8+ wide and I 
have
> a board that is 3" I dont try to save the small amount of press n 
peel
> that would be left over (2*(3+(2*3/8))) - gees John... I let the
> rigidty of the pouch kinda self center the PC board Stock. Easier 
to
> do than explain. After it comes out of the heated press and cold
> water, the press n peel falls off, the board is dried and 
inspected.
> If OK at that point then I will drill some small holes at the board
> outline corner - usually .15. If these line up with the same point 
on
> both sides of the board then the board is assumed to be in 
alignment.
> Etch and enjoy. I have only had one time that this method failed 
and I
> could attribute that to an error I made while  closing the press.
> Forgot my paper spacer and tried to open press and insert it... I 
will
> be making some more in the next few days and will upload some pix 
if

> you like
> 
> John
>

I see now. Thanks.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan" 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:09:15 +0100, kennytrussell  
> <kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
> 
> > I'm not sure I understand where you put the cardboard.
> >
> 
> 
> I fold the cardboard over in the middle, and then put the whole 
spiel (PCB  
> with layout paper on both sides) inside this.
> Then i feed it into the fuser folded edge first.
> 
> You could also try tacking the paper with a iron first if you 
have  

> problems.
> 
> ST
>

Hello, everyone... I am rather new to this board, and I have had some real
good luck with Toner Transfer, but it hasn't quite made me happy with traces
that are going between DIP pads, or connectors. I noticed that this "Press
and Peel Blue" stuff. What is it, and how do you use it, and where can I get
it? I would like to start making my own decoders for my trains, but the
quality isn't up to the standards I think I need. Can you guys help me?

Thanks in advance!!

Kim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kennytrussell" <kenneth.trussell@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: First Boards


> I see now. Thanks.
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
> <stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 21:09:15 +0100, kennytrussell
> > <kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not sure I understand where you put the cardboard.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I fold the cardboard over in the middle, and then put the whole
> spiel (PCB
> > with layout paper on both sides) inside this.
> > Then i feed it into the fuser folded edge first.
> >
> > You could also try tacking the paper with a iron first if you
> have
> > problems.
> >
> > ST
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
Photos:

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
>
> If Files or Photos are running short of space, post them here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs_Archives/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.10/218 - Release Date: 1/2/2006
>
>

For doing double sided boards using transparencies I made up a jig
from the same thickness PCB material in the shape of an 'L'.
The top and bottom transparencies are glued with paper adhesive to
either side of the jig, and the board to be exposed was sandwiched in
between and butted up against the inside edges of the 'L'. There are
no curvature effects. Maybe this approach could be used with PnP.

Cheers
Stewart

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Trethan"
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
>
> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:34:50 +0100, kennytrussell  
> <kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I have not done double-sided yet. I do have a question for someone
> >
> > about the "pouch". When you slide the board in, how do you assure
> >
> > that both sides of the pouch are still equally positioned? If the
> >
> > paper curvature is different for one side than the other where edge
> >
> > of the board meets the bound side of the pouch, wouldn't you get an
> >
> > ofset? (not sure I explained that well) For single sided boards, I
> >
> > trim my transparency or paper (whichever I am using) to just the
> >
> > outline of the board. Do you keep it a lot larger? Help from all
> >
> > appreciated.
> 
> 
> Yes, the curvature causes an error for me. If i put in in a
folded-over  
> piece of thin cardboard the curve is much more gradual and not a
problem.

> 
> ST
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "kennytrussell"
<kenneth.trussell@t...> wrote:
>
> John,
> This was very helpful. I really appreciate it! I'm not familiar with 
> the press you use. I'm still using an iron but I will look into what 
> you have.

Yeah, John.   I was wondering what kind of press you use too.   If you
already mentioned this, I must have missed it.

Alan