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Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB

Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-23 by ed.slatt

Hello,

Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide? 
Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
detectors?  My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago. 
After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
level detector that triggered.  A few days later the new middle level
detector went off.  The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
basement where I etch/tin PCBs.  I've been doing both for ~2 years
with out an alarm.  My house is heated via NG.  Any comments or
suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Ed

Re: Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-23 by Jawa Lunk

Don't play around with that.

A phone call to the NG company and they will be there within an hour. 
And they have highly sensitive equipment that will be able to tell you
if there is a real problem.

My wife smelled NG once in our house, and we called, and it turned out
there was a minute gas "puff" coming out of the furnace each time it
lit.

The NG guy used his equipment and easily traced it.

  Jawa Lunk <http://www.kingofbots.com>
   [Profiles, pics, videos, Buy, Sell & Trade Droid Parts and Props!] 
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--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ed.slatt" <ed.slatt@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide?
> Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
> detectors?  My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago.
> After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
> my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
> level detector that triggered.  A few days later the new middle level
> detector went off.  The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
> that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
> basement where I etch/tin PCBs.  I've been doing both for ~2 years
> with out an alarm.  My house is heated via NG.  Any comments or
> suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ed
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-23 by James Reed

Ed,

Have a Heater-Air professional inspect your furnace.  If there's a crack in the heat exchanger, or a venting problem, CO2 can build in the house.
________________________________
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> From: ed.slatt@...
> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:23:18 +0000
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide?
> Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
> detectors? My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago.
> After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
> my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
> level detector that triggered. A few days later the new middle level
> detector went off. The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
> that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
> basement where I etch/tin PCBs. I've been doing both for ~2 years
> with out an alarm. My house is heated via NG. Any comments or
> suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Ed
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Questio n – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-23 by Stefan Trethan

Hi,

since we don't know your exact process we can't say for sure, but it's
highly unlikely.
As i understand it, to get CO you need to oxidise some fuel containing
carbon halfway.
I can't think of any PCB process doing that.

I don't know how CO detectors work, i suppose it is possible they
might react to alcohol or solvent fumes, like acetone for board
cleaning, which might be used in the production of PCBs.

That said, CO is _very_ dangerous, and the same location tripping
different devices concerns me. I strongly suggest you get professional
help, for example the fire department will be happy to advise.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 23, 2008 10:23 PM, ed.slatt <ed.slatt@...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide?
> Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
> detectors?  My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago.
> After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
> my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
> level detector that triggered.  A few days later the new middle level
> detector went off.  The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
> that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
> basement where I etch/tin PCBs.  I've been doing both for ~2 years
> with out an alarm.  My house is heated via NG.  Any comments or
> suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>
> Ed
>

RE: [Homebrew _PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PC B

2008-01-23 by toftat@cowshed.us

if the furnace is not at fault, try looking for leaks at the garage door,
CO is one of the many nasties produced by your automobile...

It sounds like you have a healthy respect for it, but don't underestimate
the lethality of carbon monoxide, it can and will kill you before you
realize what's going on.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Ed,
>
> Have a Heater-Air professional inspect your furnace.  If there's a crack
> in the heat exchanger, or a venting problem, CO2 can build in the house.
> ________________________________
>> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> From: ed.slatt@...
>> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:23:18 +0000
>> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question \ufffd Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew
>> PCB
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide?
>> Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
>> detectors? My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago.
>> After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
>> my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
>> level detector that triggered. A few days later the new middle level
>> detector went off. The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
>> that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
>> basement where I etch/tin PCBs. I've been doing both for ~2 years
>> with out an alarm. My house is heated via NG. Any comments or
>> suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Climb to the top of the charts!\ufffdPlay the word scramble challenge with star
> power.
> http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-23 by kevinmwolf@aol.com

Ed,

I have experienced some weird situations when using Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch. The first couple of times I etched, EVERYTHING metal in the room that I used oxidized over the next couple of days. So yes, there is a small chance that etching can damage nearby electronics. However, I would call your local FD (non-emergency #) and have them check the house for CO levels.

Best of luck,
-Kevin Wolf
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: James Reed <jsreed@...>
To: homebrew_pcbs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 4:37 pm
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB











Ed,

Have a Heater-Air professional inspect your furnace.  If there's a crack in the 
heat exchanger, or a venting problem, CO2 can build in the house.
________________________________
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> From: ed.slatt@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:23:18 +0000
> Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide?
> Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
> detectors? My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago.
> After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
> my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
> level detector that triggered. A few days later the new middle level
> detector went off. The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
> that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
> basement where I etch/tin PCBs. I've been doing both for ~2 years
> with out an alarm. My house is heated via NG. Any comments or
> suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Ed
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star 
power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan

Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
Yahoo! Groups Links






 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Questio n – Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-23 by Stefan Trethan

This happens when you use way too high concentrations of HCl or both.
If the CuCl etchant is maintained at normal levels, and covered when
not in use, there is no corrosion on steel nearby.

It's well worth mentioning, so that others may avoid the tedious work
of removing rust, but i doubt it would do damage to a CO detector
which likely isn't even in the same room.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 23, 2008 11:03 PM,  <kevinmwolf@...> wrote:
>
>  Ed,
>
> I have experienced some weird situations when using Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch. The first couple of times I etched, EVERYTHING metal in the room that I used oxidized over the next couple of days. So yes, there is a small chance that etching can damage nearby electronics. However, I would call your local FD (non-emergency #) and have them check the house for CO levels.
>
> Best of luck,
> -Kevin Wolf
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question – Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-24 by Herbert E. Plett

No part of a PCB manufacturing contains carbon, so it's
unlikely that CO can be produced other than by burning
something.
The only burning you mention are the furnace and the car.
Check them. A remote chance is that some hidden electrical
conductor might be 'almost' burning it's duct... fire
hazard! although I believe it would produce more Cl than
CO.



--- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:

> This happens when you use way too high concentrations of
> HCl or both.
> If the CuCl etchant is maintained at normal levels, and
> covered when
> not in use, there is no corrosion on steel nearby.
> 
> It's well worth mentioning, so that others may avoid the
> tedious work
> of removing rust, but i doubt it would do damage to a CO
> detector
> which likely isn't even in the same room.
> 
> ST
> 
> On Jan 23, 2008 11:03 PM,  <kevinmwolf@...> wrote:
> >
> >  Ed,
> >
> > I have experienced some weird situations when using
> Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch. The first
> couple of times I etched, EVERYTHING metal in the room
> that I used oxidized over the next couple of days. So
> yes, there is a small chance that etching can damage
> nearby electronics. However, I would call your local FD
> (non-emergency #) and have them check the house for CO
> levels.
> >
> > Best of luck,
> > -Kevin Wolf
> >



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question X Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-24 by Marko Pavlin

It's not neccessary a carbon (monoxide), which can trigger the CO 
sensor. They are cross-sensitive to hydrogen, which is intensively 
produced by chemical reactions with etching. The CO sensor has filters, 
which increase the selectivity, but they may get aged which makes whole 
sensor more sensitive to e.g. hydrogen.

Marko

Herbert E. Plett pravi:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> No part of a PCB manufacturing contains carbon, so it's
> unlikely that CO can be produced other than by burning
> something.
> The only burning you mention are the furnace and the car.
> Check them. A remote chance is that some hidden electrical
> conductor might be 'almost' burning it's duct... fire
> hazard! although I believe it would produce more Cl than
> CO.
>
> --- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@... 
> <mailto:stefan_trethan%40gmx.at>> wrote:
>
> > This happens when you use way too high concentrations of
> > HCl or both.
> > If the CuCl etchant is maintained at normal levels, and
> > covered when
> > not in use, there is no corrosion on steel nearby.
> >
> > It's well worth mentioning, so that others may avoid the
> > tedious work
> > of removing rust, but i doubt it would do damage to a CO
> > detector
> > which likely isn't even in the same room.
> >
> > ST
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2008 11:03 PM, <kevinmwolf@... 
> <mailto:kevinmwolf%40aol.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ed,
> > >
> > > I have experienced some weird situations when using
> > Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch. The first
> > couple of times I etched, EVERYTHING metal in the room
> > that I used oxidized over the next couple of days. So
> > yes, there is a small chance that etching can damage
> > nearby electronics. However, I would call your local FD
> > (non-emergency #) and have them check the house for CO
> > levels.
> > >
> > > Best of luck,
> > > -Kevin Wolf
> > >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping 
> <http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping>
>
> 
>
> __________ NOD32 2819 (20080124) Informacija __________
>
> To sporo\ufffdilo je preveril protivirusni sistem NOD32.
> http://www.nod32.com

Re: Safety Question – Carbon Monoxide & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-24 by ed.slatt

Thanks for all of the feedback - I now have a plan..

This is a great group!

Ed


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "ed.slatt" <ed.slatt@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello,
> 
> Do any of the basic homebrew PCB processes put off Carbon Monoxide? 
> Do any of the processes put of any chemical that can trick/damage CO
> detectors?  My middle level CO detector went off a few days ago. 
> After talking myself back into the house I changed batteries in all of
> my fire/CO detectors and swapped the upstairs detector for the middle
> level detector that triggered.  A few days later the new middle level
> detector went off.  The offending location is on a hallway ceiling
> that is half way between the garage where I park my car and the
> basement where I etch/tin PCBs.  I've been doing both for ~2 years
> with out an alarm.  My house is heated via NG.  Any comments or
> suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Ed
>

Re: Safety Question X Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-24 by jurod81

Although I agree that nothing in the PCB manufacturing should give off CO, other things 
such as soldering with rosin flux can give off CO and many other volatile chemicals. Still, 
having a CO detector going off is not normal and should definitely be checked out professionally. 

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Marko Pavlin <mp@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It's not neccessary a carbon (monoxide), which can trigger the CO 
> sensor. They are cross-sensitive to hydrogen, which is intensively 
> produced by chemical reactions with etching. The CO sensor has filters, 
> which increase the selectivity, but they may get aged which makes whole 
> sensor more sensitive to e.g. hydrogen.
> 
> Marko
> 
> Herbert E. Plett pravi:
> >
> > No part of a PCB manufacturing contains carbon, so it's
> > unlikely that CO can be produced other than by burning
> > something.
> > The only burning you mention are the furnace and the car.
> > Check them. A remote chance is that some hidden electrical
> > conductor might be 'almost' burning it's duct... fire
> > hazard! although I believe it would produce more Cl than
> > CO.
> >
> > --- Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@... 
> > <mailto:stefan_trethan%40gmx.at>> wrote:
> >
> > > This happens when you use way too high concentrations of
> > > HCl or both.
> > > If the CuCl etchant is maintained at normal levels, and
> > > covered when
> > > not in use, there is no corrosion on steel nearby.
> > >
> > > It's well worth mentioning, so that others may avoid the
> > > tedious work
> > > of removing rust, but i doubt it would do damage to a CO
> > > detector
> > > which likely isn't even in the same room.
> > >
> > > ST
> > >
> > > On Jan 23, 2008 11:03 PM, <kevinmwolf@... 
> > <mailto:kevinmwolf%40aol.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ed,
> > > >
> > > > I have experienced some weird situations when using
> > > Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch. The first
> > > couple of times I etched, EVERYTHING metal in the room
> > > that I used oxidized over the next couple of days. So
> > > yes, there is a small chance that etching can damage
> > > nearby electronics. However, I would call your local FD
> > > (non-emergency #) and have them check the house for CO
> > > levels.
> > > >
> > > > Best of luck,
> > > > -Kevin Wolf
> > > >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
> > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping 
> > <http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping>
> >
> > 
> >
> > __________ NOD32 2819 (20080124) Informacija __________
> >
> > To sporoèilo je preveril protivirusni sistem NOD32.
> > http://www.nod32.com
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question X Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew PCB

2008-01-24 by Leon

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "Marko Pavlin" <mp@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Safety Question X Carbon Monoxid e & Homebrew 
PCB


> It's not neccessary a carbon (monoxide), which can trigger the CO
> sensor. They are cross-sensitive to hydrogen, which is intensively
> produced by chemical reactions with etching. The CO sensor has filters,
> which increase the selectivity, but they may get aged which makes whole
> sensor more sensitive to e.g. hydrogen.

No hydrogen is released during etching.

Leon

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