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Electroplating and VIAs

Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-19 by Juan EA7FNJ

Hi guys!

I'd like to make the vias of my board and I think the best method is
electroplating. But, I was looking for some information about it, and
I didn't find something that I can understand.

My question:

How can I make a good vias using electroplating? I was reading and I
have some ideas: clean the copper side of my PCB, use an acid bath,...

But I don't know how many volts and amps to make it, concentrations... 

is there any good manual step-by-step?

Thanks.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-19 by J Deringer

There are several methods to choose from, here's a video demonstrating one of them.
Pay close attention to safety instructions. This should give you an idea of what is involved, so you can decide if its something that you want to try, or if it would be better to have it done. 

http://hackaday.com/2008/07/28/how-to-etch-a-single-sided-pcb/

--- On Mon, 1/19/09, Juan EA7FNJ <esp7xx@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Juan EA7FNJ <esp7xx@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Electroplating and VIAs
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 4:00 AM










    
            Hi guys!



I'd like to make the vias of my board and I think the best method is

electroplating. But, I was looking for some information about it, and

I didn't find something that I can understand.



My question:



How can I make a good vias using electroplating? I was reading and I

have some ideas: clean the copper side of my PCB, use an acid bath,...



But I don't know how many volts and amps to make it, concentrations. .. 



is there any good manual step-by-step?



Thanks.




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-19 by Steve

Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet? Not many
links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on through hole
plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links

If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please place them
there.

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Juan EA7FNJ" <esp7xx@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi guys!
> 
> I'd like to make the vias of my board and I think the best method is
> electroplating. But, I was looking for some information about it, and
> I didn't find something that I can understand.
> 
> My question:
> 
> How can I make a good vias using electroplating? I was reading and I
> have some ideas: clean the copper side of my PCB, use an acid bath,...
> 
> But I don't know how many volts and amps to make it, concentrations... 
> 
> is there any good manual step-by-step?
> 
> Thanks.
>

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-19 by Juan EA7FNJ

Hi guys!

Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
manual 'how to use it'?

xD

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet? Not many
> links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on through hole
> plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
> mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
> 
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
> 
> If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please place them
> there.
> 
> Steve Greenfield
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-19 by Markus Zingg

Juan,

How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The chemistry even 
defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the processing 
parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a 
chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the processing 
requierements. Then build your station along them.

HTH

Markus

Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hi guys!
>
> Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
> manual 'how to use it'?
>
> xD
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
> <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
> >
> > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet? Not many
> > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on through hole
> > plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
> > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
> >
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links 
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
> >
> > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please place them
> > there.
> >
> > Steve Greenfield
> >
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-19 by Simão Pedro Cardoso

I have operated a plating pcb line in the past. The people there just 
buy a box of chemicals from a supplier and made the boards. The chemical 
supplier just ripped the manufacturers name from the chemical label and 
placed their own name. This chemical sets are available from many places 
(locally cost 400eur) and are easy to operate, the machine is just some 
plastic tanks with 2 of them heated, one with air pump and a 3-6V 40A 
psu, and a simple agitation moving the board holder from left to right 
and back again.

I never read what was on Markus Zingg's page or others but the chemical 
set seems easy to understand and from a lot of what i am been reading it 
seems easy to make all the chemicals from any local store. From car 
anti-freezer, ammonium, caustic soda, fine table salt, hydrochloric 
acid, tin solder wire, wine pH neutraliser, sulphuric acid, copper parts 
and a fertilizer bag (just the plastic bag clean for filter). I think it 
can be done but still didn't test.

It has a resin desmear bath made with resin etch and solvent to etch fr4 
resin inside the hole in a two components complex of anti-freezer, a 
bath to kill the remaining of the first based on acid salt, a activation 
bath made with tin colloidal, a ph neutraliser and the normal sulphuric 
acid copper plating with phosphorizated copper and anode bags. From what 
i understand of course.
The secret is making the holes electrical conductive before copper plating.
Another thing is the copper anode bags, they act as filters. If not used 
the copper is plated in big chunks and deposits on tank, eating the 
copper anode in less than 50% efficiency.

I will make some tests and give them here, but from
http://nr.stpi.org.tw/ejournal/proceedingA/v23n3/365-368.pdf
You can read was used in the past tin lead colloidal as activation bath, 
so my idea is put pieces of tin/lead solder wire in hydrochloric acid 
let the solder dissolve in bath add water to make 1% acid solution and 
place the drilled and clean board there for 5min. Then try to plate in 
the sulfuric acid copper bath at 30mA per square cm by half hour and see 
if the copper plates inside the holes.

Simao





Juan,

How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The chemistry even
defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the processing
parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a
chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the processing
requierements. Then build your station along them.

HTH

Markus

Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
 >
 > Hi guys!
 >
 > Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
 > manual 'how to use it'?
 >
 > xD
 >
 > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
 > <mailto:Homebrew_

PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 > >
 > > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet? Not many
 > > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on through hole
 > > plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
 > > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
 > >
 > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
 > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
 > >
 > > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please place them
 > > there.
 > >
 > > Steve Greenfield

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-20 by Simao Cardoso

I have just remembered other thing, once i read from some already dated 
IPC documents, a way to activate the holes, beautiful for it simplicity. 
Not much info just named and short explained, and that was still in 
development.

It consists in activate while drilling. The drill bit, make de hole and 
then entered in a metallic bath, when exit the hole will place the 
metallic components in the hole wall, while still rotating.

Because all the dust made while drilling it should be better to drill 
and clean first and then redrill with a tin or silver or other type 
solution, in a soft cloth or so under the board.

It can be an old, forgotten and bad results experiment, i just remember 
to name it here.

Simao

Markus Zingg wrote:
 >
 > Juan,
 >
 > How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The chemistry even
 > defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the processing
 > parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a
 > chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the processing
 > requierements. Then build your station along them.
 >
 > HTH
 >
 > Markus
 >
 > Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
 > >
 > > Hi guys!
 > >
 > > Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
 > > manual 'how to use it'?
 > >
 > > xD
 > >
 > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
 > > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@...> 
wrote:
 > > >
 > > > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet? Not many
 > > > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on through hole
 > > > plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
 > > > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
 > > >
 > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
 > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
 > > >
 > > > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please place 
them
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 > > > there.
 > > >
 > > > Steve Greenfield
 > > >
 > >
 > >
 >

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-20 by Juan EA7FNJ

Hi guys!

Well, my problem is the chemistry: I would like to find a good guide
about electroplating, but I don't find anything.

Do you know about a good guide?

73


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
wrote:
>
> 
> I have just remembered other thing, once i read from some already dated 
> IPC documents, a way to activate the holes, beautiful for it
simplicity. 
> Not much info just named and short explained, and that was still in 
> development.
> 
> It consists in activate while drilling. The drill bit, make de hole and 
> then entered in a metallic bath, when exit the hole will place the 
> metallic components in the hole wall, while still rotating.
> 
> Because all the dust made while drilling it should be better to drill 
> and clean first and then redrill with a tin or silver or other type 
> solution, in a soft cloth or so under the board.
> 
> It can be an old, forgotten and bad results experiment, i just remember 
> to name it here.
> 
> Simao
> 
> Markus Zingg wrote:
>  >
>  > Juan,
>  >
>  > How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The
chemistry even
>  > defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the
processing
>  > parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a
>  > chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the
processing
>  > requierements. Then build your station along them.
>  >
>  > HTH
>  >
>  > Markus
>  >
>  > Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
>  > >
>  > > Hi guys!
>  > >
>  > > Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
>  > > manual 'how to use it'?
>  > >
>  > > xD
>  > >
>  > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@> 
> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet?
Not many
>  > > > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on
through hole
>  > > > plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
>  > > > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
>  > > >
>  > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
>  > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
>  > > >
>  > > > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please
place 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> them
>  > > > there.
>  > > >
>  > > > Steve Greenfield
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-20 by Simao Cardoso

The problem seems there isn't any. Manufactures and resellers make a lot 
of money from this. You will only find the 'users manual'. The most 
'newbie' thing out there is Markus Zingg page that is not found 
googling. (available on links here, thanks!)
My starting point was those manuals and MSDS from megauk, and some other 
manufactures easyly find googling. Then I read what pcb's manufactures 
say about they process in about 250 boardhouse webpages. Then google 
about those process. Found almost nothing, except patents and so. The 
link i give in the last post about pcb hole plating activation history 
is the most valuable thing i found.

So
http://www.megauk.com/datasheets/5050_Data_Sheet_ABC_Panel_Plating_Instructions_(ver.11.08).pdf
http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/copplate.htm
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-e01-electroplat.htm
http://nr.stpi.org.tw/ejournal/proceedingA/v23n3/365-368.pdf

These are the things that more worth the time reading.

The baths are desmear-activation-platting, and have rinse and cleaners 
baths between them. But for few homemade board activation and plating is 
enough.
Activation is the most tricky part but is can be done in chemical bath 
of many compositions i already told a mechanical way that can work... 
and found another way.
Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of salty water. If you could make 
an electrolysis between the two copper layers in a sodium bath of NaOH, 
NaCO3 etc (NaCl shouldn't work) maybe it can leave the sodium inside the 
hole. You need an high impedance power supply for this, limiting current 
should be used. When the board short circuits it should be plated inside 
the holes. (My guess)

Simao

Juan EA7FNJ wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 >
 > Hi guys!
 >
 > Well, my problem is the chemistry: I would like to find a good guide
 > about electroplating, but I don't find anything.
 >
 > Do you know about a good guide?
 >
 > 73
 >
 > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
 > wrote:
 > >
 > >
 > > I have just remembered other thing, once i read from some already dated
 > > IPC documents, a way to activate the holes, beautiful for it
 > simplicity.
 > > Not much info just named and short explained, and that was still in
 > > development.
 > >
 > > It consists in activate while drilling. The drill bit, make de hole and
 > > then entered in a metallic bath, when exit the hole will place the
 > > metallic components in the hole wall, while still rotating.
 > >
 > > Because all the dust made while drilling it should be better to drill
 > > and clean first and then redrill with a tin or silver or other type
 > > solution, in a soft cloth or so under the board.
 > >
 > > It can be an old, forgotten and bad results experiment, i just remember
 > > to name it here.
 > >
 > > Simao
 > >
 > > Markus Zingg wrote:
 > > >
 > > > Juan,
 > > >
 > > > How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The
 > chemistry even
 > > > defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the
 > processing
 > > > parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a
 > > > chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the
 > processing
 > > > requierements. Then build your station along them.
 > > >
 > > > HTH
 > > >
 > > > Markus
 > > >
 > > > Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
 > > > >
 > > > > Hi guys!
 > > > >
 > > > > Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
 > > > > manual 'how to use it'?
 > > > >
 > > > > xD
 > > > >
 > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
 > > > > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@>
 > > wrote:
 > > > > >
 > > > > > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet?
 > Not many
 > > > > > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on
 > through hole
 > > > > > plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
 > > > > > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
 > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
 > > > > >
 > > > > > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please
 > place
 > > them
 > > > > > there.
 > > > > >
 > > > > > Steve Greenfield
 > > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > >
 > >

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-21 by Mark Lerman

I found 
<http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/ThroughHolePlating/proconduct.htm> 
very interesting. They have a paste that is essentially squeegeed 
into the holes, vacuumed out to clear the center of the hole,  then 
baked in an oven to cure. They have a kit,l but the active paste is 
available for $240 for 20 of the 2.5 gm packages. Not cheap, but not 
too bad, especially if you can reuse open packets.

Mark


At 02:46 PM 1/20/2009, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>The problem seems there isn't any. Manufactures and resellers make a lot
>of money from this. You will only find the 'users manual'. The most
>'newbie' thing out there is Markus Zingg page that is not found
>googling. (available on links here, thanks!)
>My starting point was those manuals and MSDS from megauk, and some other
>manufactures easyly find googling. Then I read what pcb's manufactures
>say about they process in about 250 boardhouse webpages. Then google
>about those process. Found almost nothing, except patents and so. The
>link i give in the last post about pcb hole plating activation history
>is the most valuable thing i found.
>
>So
>http://www.megauk.com/datasheets/5050_Data_Sheet_ABC_Panel_Plating_Instructions_(ver.11.08).pdf
>http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/copplate.htm
>http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-e01-electroplat.htm
>http://nr.stpi.org.tw/ejournal/proceedingA/v23n3/365-368.pdf
>
>These are the things that more worth the time reading.
>
>The baths are desmear-activation-platting, and have rinse and cleaners
>baths between them. But for few homemade board activation and plating is
>enough.
>Activation is the most tricky part but is can be done in chemical bath
>of many compositions i already told a mechanical way that can work...
>and found another way.
>Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of salty water. If you could make
>an electrolysis between the two copper layers in a sodium bath of NaOH,
>NaCO3 etc (NaCl shouldn't work) maybe it can leave the sodium inside the
>hole. You need an high impedance power supply for this, limiting current
>should be used. When the board short circuits it should be plated inside
>the holes. (My guess)
>
>Simao
>
>Juan EA7FNJ wrote:
>  >
>  > Hi guys!
>  >
>  > Well, my problem is the chemistry: I would like to find a good guide
>  > about electroplating, but I don't find anything.
>  >
>  > Do you know about a good guide?
>  >
>  > 73
>  >
>  > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
>  > wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > I have just remembered other thing, once i read from some already dated
>  > > IPC documents, a way to activate the holes, beautiful for it
>  > simplicity.
>  > > Not much info just named and short explained, and that was still in
>  > > development.
>  > >
>  > > It consists in activate while drilling. The drill bit, make de hole and
>  > > then entered in a metallic bath, when exit the hole will place the
>  > > metallic components in the hole wall, while still rotating.
>  > >
>  > > Because all the dust made while drilling it should be better to drill
>  > > and clean first and then redrill with a tin or silver or other type
>  > > solution, in a soft cloth or so under the board.
>  > >
>  > > It can be an old, forgotten and bad results experiment, i just remember
>  > > to name it here.
>  > >
>  > > Simao
>  > >
>  > > Markus Zingg wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > Juan,
>  > > >
>  > > > How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The
>  > chemistry even
>  > > > defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the
>  > processing
>  > > > parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a
>  > > > chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the
>  > processing
>  > > > requierements. Then build your station along them.
>  > > >
>  > > > HTH
>  > > >
>  > > > Markus
>  > > >
>  > > > Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Hi guys!
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, where is the
>  > > > > manual 'how to use it'?
>  > > > >
>  > > > > xD
>  > > > >
>  > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > > > > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@>
>  > > wrote:
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet?
>  > Not many
>  > > > > > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on
>  > through hole
>  > > > > > plating has been down for a while, but I just found where someone
>  > > > > > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
>  > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please
>  > place
>  > > them
>  > > > > > there.
>  > > > > >
>  > > > > > Steve Greenfield
>  > > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > >
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-21 by trevwhite74

Someone recommended 'circuitworks CW2400 Conductive Epoxy' as an
alternative to this and it is cheaper. I have some but not had chance
to use it yet. 

Trev

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I found 
> <http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/ThroughHolePlating/proconduct.htm> 
> very interesting. They have a paste that is essentially squeegeed 
> into the holes, vacuumed out to clear the center of the hole,  then 
> baked in an oven to cure. They have a kit,l but the active paste is 
> available for $240 for 20 of the 2.5 gm packages. Not cheap, but not 
> too bad, especially if you can reuse open packets.
>

Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-21 by flightofharmony

Out of curiosity, has anybody used the old-fashioned eyelet approach?
Definitely not worthwhile for production, but it would be very handy
for DIY.

Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-21 by Bob_xyz

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "flightofharmony" <flight@...>
wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, has anybody used the old-fashioned eyelet approach?
> Definitely not worthwhile for production, but it would be very handy
> for DIY.
>

As long as you don't have too many of them, I've found that it's
fairly quick and easy to 'stitch' vias using a length of stripped
wire-wrap wire. After running the wire through the vias (going back
and forth from one side of the board to the other), I solder the vias
and then use an Xacto knife to cut the wires at the via pad edges. 

If the length of wire required is difficult to work with, you can
always stop the stitching and start again with a new piece of wire.


Regards, Bob

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-21 by Simao Cardoso

Mark Lerman wrote:
 >
 > I found
 > <http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/ThroughHolePlating/proconduct.htm>
 > very interesting. They have a paste that is essentially squeegeed
 > into the holes, vacuumed out to clear the center of the hole, then
 > baked in an oven to cure. They have a kit,l but the active paste is
 > available for $240 for 20 of the 2.5 gm packages. Not cheap, but not
 > too bad, especially if you can reuse open packets.
 >
 > Mark


There is similar things from thinktink and others, they all seem 
carbon/silver curable inks. They are for make the vias conductive also 
without plating after.
There is also who tried the use of and silver based car motor radiator 
hole repair liquid. The bottle was cheaper but he conclude, because of 
the less quantity of conductive material wasn't that cheap after all.


 > >So
 > 
 >http://www.megauk.com/datasheets/5050_Data_Sheet_ABC_Panel_Plating_Instructions_(ver.11.08).pdf
 > >http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/copplate.htm
 > >http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-e01-electroplat.htm
 > >http://nr.stpi.org.tw/ejournal/proceedingA/v23n3/365-368.pdf
 > >
and also
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3751/is_200501/ai_n9521082
http://www.ecitechnology.com/articles/Detection_of_Accelerator_Breakdown_Products_in_Copper_Plating_Baths.pdf
about adictives

 > >Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of salty water. If you could make
 > >an electrolysis between the two copper layers in a sodium bath of NaOH,
 > >NaCO3 etc (NaCl shouldn't work) maybe it can leave the sodium inside the
 > >hole. You need an high impedance power supply for this, limiting current
 > >should be used. When the board short circuits it should be plated inside
 > >the holes. (My guess)
 > >

Sodium and water :D It could be simpler but NO CAN DO.
Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of melted NaCl.
I just wrote that to see if someone was reading it :$  ;)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 > >Simao
 > >
 > >Juan EA7FNJ wrote:
 > > >
 > > > Hi guys!
 > > >
 > > > Well, my problem is the chemistry: I would like to find a good guide
 > > > about electroplating, but I don't find anything.
 > > >
 > > > Do you know about a good guide?
 > > >
 > > > 73
 > > >

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-21 by Stefan Trethan

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...> wrote:

> Sodium and water :D It could be simpler but NO CAN DO.
> Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of melted NaCl.
> I just wrote that to see if someone was reading it :$  ;)

Actually i started a reply, observing that it couldn't work because
when the first hole is connected plating would stop, and all the holes
are parallel. But then i noticed there are so many problems with this
idea it was pointless to reply.

ST

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-21 by Harvey White

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:31:47 -0000, you wrote:

>Out of curiosity, has anybody used the old-fashioned eyelet approach?
>Definitely not worthwhile for production, but it would be very handy
>for DIY.

Yes.

I find it useful for vias, but I don't use the eyelets (too big, need
about 0.051 hole) for parts leads, although I could for RL07 size (1/4
watt) parts.  

I take care to solder and make sure that the solder covers the entire
top (flared) part of the eyelet as well as bridges to the pad, and the
lower (swaged) part of the eyelet is also soldered as well.  So far, I
have not had problems with thermal stress and breaking of bonds.

I have tried pins, and find them less satisfactory.

Harvey

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-21 by JanRwl@AOL.COM

In a message dated 1/21/2009 1:32:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
flight@... writes:

Out of  curiosity, has anybody used the old-fashioned eyelet approach?   
Definitely not worthwhile for production, but it would be very handy for  DIY.<<
I do that where the holes are "under" IC-sockets, etc., and MUST be almost  
PTH.  For others, "out in the open" I use bits of wire, soldered on both  sides.
 
Use NEW, brightly-tinned eyelets, and sweat-solder them to the TOP pad  
before populating board!

 
**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay 
up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-21 by Juan EA7FNJ

Hi guys!

I've just found this video: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=djr1KmtAYKg

To activate the holes: why don't use copper dust with some disolte
varnish?

I think there is some 'poor man' solution, cheap and low cost hi hi


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
wrote:
>
> Mark Lerman wrote:
>  >
>  > I found
>  > <http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/ThroughHolePlating/proconduct.htm>
>  > very interesting. They have a paste that is essentially squeegeed
>  > into the holes, vacuumed out to clear the center of the hole, then
>  > baked in an oven to cure. They have a kit,l but the active paste is
>  > available for $240 for 20 of the 2.5 gm packages. Not cheap, but not
>  > too bad, especially if you can reuse open packets.
>  >
>  > Mark
> 
> 
> There is similar things from thinktink and others, they all seem 
> carbon/silver curable inks. They are for make the vias conductive also 
> without plating after.
> There is also who tried the use of and silver based car motor radiator 
> hole repair liquid. The bottle was cheaper but he conclude, because of 
> the less quantity of conductive material wasn't that cheap after all.
> 
> 
>  > >So
>  > 
> 
>http://www.megauk.com/datasheets/5050_Data_Sheet_ABC_Panel_Plating_Instructions_(ver.11.08).pdf
>  > >http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/copplate.htm
>  > >http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-e01-electroplat.htm
>  > >http://nr.stpi.org.tw/ejournal/proceedingA/v23n3/365-368.pdf
>  > >
> and also
> http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3751/is_200501/ai_n9521082
>
http://www.ecitechnology.com/articles/Detection_of_Accelerator_Breakdown_Products_in_Copper_Plating_Baths.pdf
> about adictives
> 
>  > >Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of salty water. If you
could make
>  > >an electrolysis between the two copper layers in a sodium bath
of NaOH,
>  > >NaCO3 etc (NaCl shouldn't work) maybe it can leave the sodium
inside the
>  > >hole. You need an high impedance power supply for this, limiting
current
>  > >should be used. When the board short circuits it should be
plated inside
>  > >the holes. (My guess)
>  > >
> 
> Sodium and water :D It could be simpler but NO CAN DO.
> Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of melted NaCl.
> I just wrote that to see if someone was reading it :$  ;)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  > >Simao
>  > >
>  > >Juan EA7FNJ wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > Hi guys!
>  > > >
>  > > > Well, my problem is the chemistry: I would like to find a
good guide
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  > > > about electroplating, but I don't find anything.
>  > > >
>  > > > Do you know about a good guide?
>  > > >
>  > > > 73
>  > > >
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-22 by Mark Lerman

Is anyone interested in buying some of the LPKF ProConduct to try? If 
enough of us are, I would be willing to purchase the 20 packets and 
resell them individually at cost. Let me know off list -
Mark


At 09:53 AM 1/21/2009, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I found
><http://www.lpkfusa.com/RapidPCB/ThroughHolePlating/proconduct.htm>
>very interesting. They have a paste that is essentially squeegeed
>into the holes, vacuumed out to clear the center of the hole,  then
>baked in an oven to cure. They have a kit,l but the active paste is
>available for $240 for 20 of the 2.5 gm packages. Not cheap, but not
>too bad, especially if you can reuse open packets.
>
>Mark
>
>
>At 02:46 PM 1/20/2009, you wrote:
>
> >The problem seems there isn't any. Manufactures and resellers make a lot
> >of money from this. You will only find the 'users manual'. The most
> >'newbie' thing out there is Markus Zingg page that is not found
> >googling. (available on links here, thanks!)
> >My starting point was those manuals and MSDS from megauk, and some other
> >manufactures easyly find googling. Then I read what pcb's manufactures
> >say about they process in about 250 boardhouse webpages. Then google
> >about those process. Found almost nothing, except patents and so. The
> >link i give in the last post about pcb hole plating activation history
> >is the most valuable thing i found.
> >
> >So
> >http://www.megauk.com/datasheets/5050_Data_Sheet_ABC_Panel_Plating_ 
> Instructions_(ver.11.08).pdf
> >http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/copplate.htm
> >http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encycl/art-e01-electroplat.htm
> >http://nr.stpi.org.tw/ejournal/proceedingA/v23n3/365-368.pdf
> >
> >These are the things that more worth the time reading.
> >
> >The baths are desmear-activation-platting, and have rinse and cleaners
> >baths between them. But for few homemade board activation and plating is
> >enough.
> >Activation is the most tricky part but is can be done in chemical bath
> >of many compositions i already told a mechanical way that can work...
> >and found another way.
> >Sodium metal is made from electrolysis of salty water. If you could make
> >an electrolysis between the two copper layers in a sodium bath of NaOH,
> >NaCO3 etc (NaCl shouldn't work) maybe it can leave the sodium inside the
> >hole. You need an high impedance power supply for this, limiting current
> >should be used. When the board short circuits it should be plated inside
> >the holes. (My guess)
> >
> >Simao
> >
> >Juan EA7FNJ wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Hi guys!
> >  >
> >  > Well, my problem is the chemistry: I would like to find a good guide
> >  > about electroplating, but I don't find anything.
> >  >
> >  > Do you know about a good guide?
> >  >
> >  > 73
> >  >
> >  > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Simao Cardoso <simaocardoso@...>
> >  > wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > I have just remembered other thing, once i read from some 
> already dated
> >  > > IPC documents, a way to activate the holes, beautiful for it
> >  > simplicity.
> >  > > Not much info just named and short explained, and that was still in
> >  > > development.
> >  > >
> >  > > It consists in activate while drilling. The drill bit, make 
> de hole and
> >  > > then entered in a metallic bath, when exit the hole will place the
> >  > > metallic components in the hole wall, while still rotating.
> >  > >
> >  > > Because all the dust made while drilling it should be better to drill
> >  > > and clean first and then redrill with a tin or silver or other type
> >  > > solution, in a soft cloth or so under the board.
> >  > >
> >  > > It can be an old, forgotten and bad results experiment, i 
> just remember
> >  > > to name it here.
> >  > >
> >  > > Simao
> >  > >
> >  > > Markus Zingg wrote:
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Juan,
> >  > > >
> >  > > > How to use it greatly depends on the chemistry used. The
> >  > chemistry even
> >  > > > defines howmany tanks you need, wether they are heated, the
> >  > processing
> >  > > > parameters etc. etc. My best advice to you is to first organize a
> >  > > > chemistry, cause it's supplier will be able to tell you the
> >  > processing
> >  > > > requierements. Then build your station along them.
> >  > > >
> >  > > > HTH
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Markus
> >  > > >
> >  > > > Juan EA7FNJ schrieb:
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > Hi guys!
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > Ok, great machine! but, I can see how to make one but, 
> where is the
> >  > > > > manual 'how to use it'?
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > xD
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> >  > > > > <mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com>, "Steve" <alienrelics@>
> >  > > wrote:
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > > Have you checked the Links under "Plated Through Holes" yet?
> >  > Not many
> >  > > > > > links there, but it is something. Markus Zingg's page on
> >  > through hole
> >  > > > > > plating has been down for a while, but I just found 
> where someone
> >  > > > > > mirrored it and put that link in place of the missing site.
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links
> >  > > > > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/links>
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > > If you find any other links on through-hole plating, please
> >  > place
> >  > > them
> >  > > > > > there.
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > > > Steve Greenfield
> >  > > > > >
> >  > > > >
> >  > > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-22 by trevwhite74

Did you watch the videos on how to apply this stuff? You need some
film/foil to cover the holes and then drill them out before applying
the paste. Then it seems it needs to be cured as well afterwards. Have
you got a plan of attack on how to do this? 

As said the circuitworks CW2400 stuff appears to be very similar and
is a lot cheaper as you can buy it for something like $30. You will
still need to go through the same application process as the LPKF
ProConduct. 


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Is anyone interested in buying some of the LPKF ProConduct to try? If 
> enough of us are, I would be willing to purchase the 20 packets and 
> resell them individually at cost. Let me know off list -
> Mark
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-22 by Mark Lerman

I have several thoughts on this. I mill my boards, so the simplest 
thing would probably for me to do it the same as the video. I'm 
pretty sure I can find something to coat the board, perhaps 
laminating plastic (?), then drill the holes, squeegee on the paste. 
I would then probably blow out the holes rather than vacuum them out. 
To save on the paste, I might put it in a syringe and pack each hole 
individually, then refrigerate the remaining paste. Obviously there 
is some experimentation to be done.

Since LPKF is selling the stuff, I assume it actually works and they 
list the conductivity. I'm a bit nervous about the CW2400 because I 
haven't found anyone who actually has used it and demonstrated that 
it actually works and has low conductivity.

Mark

At 08:31 AM 1/22/2009, you wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Did you watch the videos on how to apply this stuff? You need some
>film/foil to cover the holes and then drill them out before applying
>the paste. Then it seems it needs to be cured as well afterwards. Have
>you got a plan of attack on how to do this?
>
>As said the circuitworks CW2400 stuff appears to be very similar and
>is a lot cheaper as you can buy it for something like $30. You will
>still need to go through the same application process as the LPKF
>ProConduct.
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Mark Lerman <mlerman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Is anyone interested in buying some of the LPKF ProConduct to try? If
> > enough of us are, I would be willing to purchase the 20 packets and
> > resell them individually at cost. Let me know off list -
> > Mark
> >
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-22 by trevwhite74

> Since LPKF is selling the stuff, I assume it actually works and they 
> list the conductivity. I'm a bit nervous about the CW2400 because I 
> haven't found anyone who actually has used it and demonstrated that 
> it actually works and has low conductivity.
> 

Yeah, agree with your thinking. CW2400 was recommended by a chap in
America who has an LPKF milling machine and has used it. I do not know
quite how reliable,etc his results are but he did sound to really like
it. He said he was going to send me some pictures of his work but I
have not heard off him yet.

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-22 by Juan EA7FNJ

Hi guys!

Conductive glue: http://www.inklesspress.com/conductive_glue.htm

Can it work to 'activate' the holes and electroplate the vias?

any idea?

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "trevwhite74"
<trevor.white100@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> 
> > Since LPKF is selling the stuff, I assume it actually works and they 
> > list the conductivity. I'm a bit nervous about the CW2400 because I 
> > haven't found anyone who actually has used it and demonstrated that 
> > it actually works and has low conductivity.
> > 
> 
> Yeah, agree with your thinking. CW2400 was recommended by a chap in
> America who has an LPKF milling machine and has used it. I do not know
> quite how reliable,etc his results are but he did sound to really like
> it. He said he was going to send me some pictures of his work but I
> have not heard off him yet.
>

Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by roycepipkins

Wow! What a simple and easy idea. I've been fussing with individual
lengths of wire for each via. I feel like a dolt now!

Anyway, thanks for the post I will definitely give stitching a try. 

Regards,
Royce



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Bob_xyz" <bob_barr@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "flightofharmony" <flight@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Out of curiosity, has anybody used the old-fashioned eyelet approach?
> > Definitely not worthwhile for production, but it would be very handy
> > for DIY.
> >
> 
> As long as you don't have too many of them, I've found that it's
> fairly quick and easy to 'stitch' vias using a length of stripped
> wire-wrap wire. After running the wire through the vias (going back
> and forth from one side of the board to the other), I solder the vias
> and then use an Xacto knife to cut the wires at the via pad edges. 
> 
> If the length of wire required is difficult to work with, you can
> always stop the stitching and start again with a new piece of wire.
> 
> 
> Regards, Bob
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by Stefan Trethan

Never mind, you are in good company of other dolts.
My first thought was the same as yours when i read about the method.

My second thought was that'll waste a lot of wire. OK absolutely
worthless wire i can just grab out of the trash, but still ;-)

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:16 PM, roycepipkins <royce.pipkins@...> wrote:
> Wow! What a simple and easy idea. I've been fussing with individual
> lengths of wire for each via. I feel like a dolt now!
>
> Anyway, thanks for the post I will definitely give stitching a try.
>
> Regards,
> Royce
>

Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by trevwhite74

Got to admit I am actually feeling a bit dumb too. The stitching
aproach really makes so much sense and speeds things up so much. I can
not believe I used to do each via seperately. Doh.

Trev

Re: Electroplating and VIAs

2009-01-22 by Lee Studley

Goto ThinkAndTinker
http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/condink.htm
Been doing similar for years.

-Lee

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by DJ Delorie

Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> writes:
> My second thought was that'll waste a lot of wire.

I thought that too.  Then I realized that speaker wire, stripped and
strands separated, yields a lifetime supply of cheap via wires...

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by leon Heller

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "DJ Delorie" <dj@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)


>
> Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> writes:
>> My second thought was that'll waste a lot of wire.
>
> I thought that too.  Then I realized that speaker wire, stripped and
> strands separated, yields a lifetime supply of cheap via wires...

I bought a reel of 28 swg tinned copper wire a few years ago. I use it for 
links on the top of the board as well as for vias. It'll see me out, and 
then some!

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by Stefan Trethan

I always find it hard to separate stranded wire because it is twisted
together. It knots up after only a short length.

However i think i have rescued a couple reels of just the right stuff,
and stashed it safely. That must be a few kilometers, enough for the
immediate future ;-)

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:13 PM, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> writes:
>> My second thought was that'll waste a lot of wire.
>
> I thought that too.  Then I realized that speaker wire, stripped and
> strands separated, yields a lifetime supply of cheap via wires...
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Eyelets? (WAS: Re: Electroplating and VIAs)

2009-01-22 by DJ Delorie

Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> writes:
> I always find it hard to separate stranded wire because it is twisted
> together. It knots up after only a short length.

What I did was strip the insulation off the last 5 inches of the wire,
then cut off the exposed strands.  That lasts a while, then strip and
cut more, etc...

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