Homebrew PCBs

Hi all

I got this laminator for £10 today. I've opened it up and the control of the temp is by 2 thermal switches. These are in parallel so I don't quite get how they work.

They seem to have different ratings. One is stamped B115 the other B145. I have removed the B145 just to test the unit and it works great :D ......... just turn it off before the smoke gets serious!

A 1.6mm PCB with photo paper passes through no problem so all I have to sort is regulating the temp.

I hear that 135-162 Degrees C is the specific range for toner transfer. I have found a 160 Degree C thermal switch which is physically the same. I assume I need a NC type. Is this change quite as simple as I hope?

Any guidance hints etc gratefully received :D

regards

Fenris

"fenris67" <thenephilim10@...> writes:
> I hear that 135-162 Degrees C is the specific range for toner
> transfer.

Close enough.  I run mine a little hotter.

> I have found a 160 Degree C thermal switch which is physically the
> same. I assume I need a NC type. Is this change quite as simple as I
> hope?

Most likely, but you'd have to trace out all the connections to be
sure.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "fenris67" <thenephilim10@...> writes:
> > I hear that 135-162 Degrees C is the specific range for toner
> > transfer.
> 
> Close enough.  I run mine a little hotter.
> 
> > I have found a 160 Degree C thermal switch which is physically the
> > same. I assume I need a NC type. Is this change quite as simple as I
> > hope?
> 
> Most likely, but you'd have to trace out all the connections to be
> sure.
>


Hi there

I'm pretty sure of the connections so in theory just swapping out the thermal switch will be sufficient. I will have a look and see if there is a hotter switch - maybe 170 C. The only other thought I had is fitting a dimmer switch in the motor line to slow it down so more of the heat is transfered. If that isn't feasable then a PWM relay inline to do the same.

regards

Dave

DJ, how hot do you normally do toner transfer? I just got a new HP P1006 printer today - any idea what temperature it should take for toner transfer?  

Comments from anyway?

Thanks for any info,

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>
> 
> "fenris67" <thenephilim10@...> writes:
> > I hear that 135-162 Degrees C is the specific range for toner
> > transfer.
> 
> Close enough.  I run mine a little hotter.
> 
> > I have found a 160 Degree C thermal switch which is physically the
> > same. I assume I need a NC type. Is this change quite as simple as I
> > hope?
> 
> Most likely, but you'd have to trace out all the connections to be
> sure.
>

"sailingto" <sailingto@...> writes:
> DJ, how hot do you normally do toner transfer? I just got a new HP
> P1006 printer today - any idea what temperature it should take for
> toner transfer?

I don't know if I do enough TT with the new heat control to say
"normally" but the old control was for 320 F and was a bit too cold.
350 F seems to work better (HP 2550), but I need to try a few other
temperatures to make sure I'm not getting it so hot it melts and
deforms.  The last board I did had traces so much wider they shorted
in a few places, but that might have been the green TRF getting too
hot also.

The other thing I tried that seems to have helped is I used a
rubber-soled push block to press the paper against the board on a cast
iron table saw; which held the paper firmly in contact while quickly
cooling it.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "sailingto" <sailingto@...> writes:
> > DJ, how hot do you normally do toner transfer? I just got a new HP
> > P1006 printer today - any idea what temperature it should take for
> > toner transfer?
> 
> I don't know if I do enough TT with the new heat control to say
> "normally" but the old control was for 320 F and was a bit too cold.
> 350 F seems to work better (HP 2550), but I need to try a few other
> temperatures to make sure I'm not getting it so hot it melts and
> deforms.  The last board I did had traces so much wider they shorted
> in a few places, but that might have been the green TRF getting too
> hot also.
> 
> The other thing I tried that seems to have helped is I used a
> rubber-soled push block to press the paper against the board on a cast
> iron table saw; which held the paper firmly in contact while quickly
> cooling it.
>

Hi all

Well it seems I have hit on a solution to temperature control that works for me :D I dismantled and old clothes iron. Removed it's bi-metal thermostatic control and fitted it to the laminator. The control was only held in the iron by a bolt so that and 2 wires later I had it fitted. The case needed fettling to allow fixing the unit back into it but it's all working. Set to a little over polyestor, 5 passes to heat the PCB and 10 to toner transfer.

The test PCB is fantastic! Crisp, clean, and no remeadial work needed as everything stuck as it should :D :D.

Please note this is playing with 240VAC!!!! Safety safety safety!!!

> Hi all
> 
> Well it seems I have hit on a solution to temperature control that works for me :D I dismantled and old clothes iron. Removed it's bi-metal thermostatic control and fitted it to the laminator. The control was only held in the iron by a bolt so that and 2 wires later I had it fitted. The case needed fettling to allow fixing the unit back into it but it's all working. Set to a little over polyestor, 5 passes to heat the PCB and 10 to toner transfer.
> 
> The test PCB is fantastic! Crisp, clean, and no remeadial work needed as everything stuck as it should :D :D.
> 
> Please note this is playing with 240VAC!!!! Safety safety safety!!!
>

Hey, I LIKE that idea - there should be an old iron lying around here somewhere - think I've got one on the boat. I WILL take that for a control. Do you have a temperature indicator?  I took a short peice of type J thermocouple wire and screwed tight again the metal where the thermal switch went and connected to a 50mV meter - just read the mV signal to determine temperature.  I checked the mV meter with a pot of boiling water - indicated 5.23mV with a good rolling boil - or 212F here at sea level.  Pretty close.

Only 120VAC here in the USA - but that still tingles (speaking from LOTS of experience)

Thanks for the idea.

Ken H>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingto@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> > 
> > Well it seems I have hit on a solution to temperature control that works for me :D I dismantled and old clothes iron. Removed it's bi-metal thermostatic control and fitted it to the laminator. The control was only held in the iron by a bolt so that and 2 wires later I had it fitted. The case needed fettling to allow fixing the unit back into it but it's all working. Set to a little over polyestor, 5 passes to heat the PCB and 10 to toner transfer.
> > 
> > The test PCB is fantastic! Crisp, clean, and no remeadial work needed as everything stuck as it should :D :D.
> > 
> > Please note this is playing with 240VAC!!!! Safety safety safety!!!
> >
> 
> Hey, I LIKE that idea - there should be an old iron lying around here somewhere - think I've got one on the boat. I WILL take that for a control. Do you have a temperature indicator?  I took a short peice of type J thermocouple wire and screwed tight again the metal where the thermal switch went and connected to a 50mV meter - just read the mV signal to determine temperature.  I checked the mV meter with a pot of boiling water - indicated 5.23mV with a good rolling boil - or 212F here at sea level.  Pretty close.
> 
> Only 120VAC here in the USA - but that still tingles (speaking from LOTS of experience)
> 
> Thanks for the idea.
> 
> Ken H>
>


Hi Ken

I have no temp indication. I'm relying on the thermostat dial to be 'true' :D

regards

Fenris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "fenris67" <thenephilim10@...> wrote:
>
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingto@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all
> > > 
> > > Well it seems I have hit on a solution to temperature control that works for me :D I dismantled and old clothes iron. Removed it's bi-metal thermostatic control and fitted it to the laminator. The control was only held in the iron by a bolt so that and 2 wires later I had it fitted. The case needed fettling to allow fixing the unit back into it but it's all working. Set to a little over polyestor, 5 passes to heat the PCB and 10 to toner transfer.
> > > 
> > > The test PCB is fantastic! Crisp, clean, and no remeadial work needed as everything stuck as it should :D :D.
> > > 
> > > Please note this is playing with 240VAC!!!! Safety safety safety!!!
> > >
> > 
> > Hey, I LIKE that idea - there should be an old iron lying around here somewhere - think I've got one on the boat. I WILL take that for a control. Do you have a temperature indicator?  I took a short peice of type J thermocouple wire and screwed tight again the metal where the thermal switch went and connected to a 50mV meter - just read the mV signal to determine temperature.  I checked the mV meter with a pot of boiling water - indicated 5.23mV with a good rolling boil - or 212F here at sea level.  Pretty close.
> > 
> > Only 120VAC here in the USA - but that still tingles (speaking from LOTS of experience)
> > 
> > Thanks for the idea.
> > 
> > Ken H>
> >
> 
> 
> Hi Ken
> 
> I have no temp indication. I'm relying on the thermostat dial to be 'true' :D
> 
> regards
> 
> Fenris
>

Today I have had another go using my modded laminator. This time, with the temp at just over polyester, I did 6 runs to heat the PCB and 8 to transfer the pattern. I did 2 PCB's both 3" x 4 3/4" 1.6mm thick. My traces consist of 1.02mm (the majority), .75mm and 3.25mm. There is a small amount of text which is about size 6 as selected in the design software. Everything is perfect on both and 100 % stick down.

Having rubbed the thickest pieces of backing paper off I used a washing up sponge, the rough side, to clean off the remainder. No pattern was removed though I think that's down to not going mad :D . The 8 passes seems to have improved the definition of the holes in the component pads as well I noticed.

I am really pleased with this improvement to my PCB making to say the least. Now........how to automate the drilling of 200 holes 8/

I haveposted some pictures under Texet but they are awaiting approval.

regards

Fenris