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Thread

Making negatives

Making negatives

2009-08-16 by pr0pert

I am new here and have been following the posts for a while.
My first boards were done back in the 60s using a spray on 
photoresist made by Dynachem. I have had not great results with
toner transfer. want to try the resist film and will soon. Making good
negatives seems to be a problem. Saw this website 
http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/Electronics/Photoplotter/Photoplotter.htm 
and got to thinking. Would it be possible to modify a inkjet printer 
to perform as an imagesetter/ photoplotter. ( Could call it a LIGHTJET )
 has anyone 
tried something like this?

Seems to be a lot of talent here that might be able to make it work.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making negatives

2009-08-17 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "pr0pert" <propert@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 10:53 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making negatives


>I am new here and have been following the posts for a while.
> My first boards were done back in the 60s using a spray on
> photoresist made by Dynachem. I have had not great results with
> toner transfer. want to try the resist film and will soon. Making good
> negatives seems to be a problem. Saw this website
> http://www.franksworkshop.com.au/Electronics/Photoplotter/Photoplotter.htm
> and got to thinking. Would it be possible to modify a inkjet printer
> to perform as an imagesetter/ photoplotter. ( Could call it a LIGHTJET )
> has anyone
> tried something like this?

I print directly onto transparency material (Mega Electronics JetStar).

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Making negatives

2009-08-17 by DJ Delorie

"leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
> I print directly onto transparency material (Mega Electronics JetStar).

Me too, or Silkjet.  Both seem to work well for me, although I had to
write my own printer driver to get enough ink onto the page.

Re: Making negatives

2009-08-17 by pr0pert

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
> > I print directly onto transparency material (Mega Electronics JetStar).
> 
> Me too, or Silkjet.  Both seem to work well for me, although I had to
> write my own printer driver to get enough ink onto the page.
>
Thanks for this information. Looks like a great way to go.
Any preference of dye or pigment? which works best? Also any printer
to suggest or stay away from? Yeh I know lots of questions. A fter 
a quick google Silkjet seems to be available in the USA Jetstar doesn't.

Same Leon Heller that shows up on the AVR Freaks?

Thanks for your help.
Roger Lewis

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-17 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "pr0pert" <propert@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives


> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
>> > I print directly onto transparency material (Mega Electronics JetStar).
>>
>> Me too, or Silkjet.  Both seem to work well for me, although I had to
>> write my own printer driver to get enough ink onto the page.
>>
> Thanks for this information. Looks like a great way to go.
> Any preference of dye or pigment? which works best? Also any printer
> to suggest or stay away from? Yeh I know lots of questions. A fter
> a quick google Silkjet seems to be available in the USA Jetstar doesn't.
>
> Same Leon Heller that shows up on the AVR Freaks?

Yes, it is. 8-)

Leon

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-17 by leon Heller

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "pr0pert" <propert@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives


> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
>> > I print directly onto transparency material (Mega Electronics JetStar).
>>
>> Me too, or Silkjet.  Both seem to work well for me, although I had to
>> write my own printer driver to get enough ink onto the page.
>>
> Thanks for this information. Looks like a great way to go.
> Any preference of dye or pigment? which works best? Also any printer
> to suggest or stay away from? Yeh I know lots of questions. A fter
> a quick google Silkjet seems to be available in the USA Jetstar doesn't.

DJD reckons they are about the same. I have to use the more expensive 
JetStar Premium with my HP 5940, the ordinary stuff was OK with the Epson 
printer I used to use. I don't know if Silkjet makes a premium version. You 
can buy JetStar from Farnell/Newark in the USA.

The HP 5940 is a very cheap printer but works very well, I can get down to 5 
mil tracks, although I normally use 10 mil or more.

Leon

Leon

[Homebrew_PCBs] Printing directly on the cobberplates

2009-08-17 by Keld Sørensen

I heard someone did do that – is there a description somewhere or some
pictures of the changes to the printer ?

 

Best regards

Ksor, Denmark

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-17 by DJ Delorie

"pr0pert" <propert@...> writes:
> Any preference of dye or pigment? which works best? Also any printer
> to suggest or stay away from?

I use an Epson R280 (claria inks) but I don't know if it's any better
or worse than anything else.  I know that with my printing software, I
get 8 stops (on a 21-step stouffer gauge) with the black ink, which is
plenty for me.  The black ink seems to like the special films better
than the yellow, which also gives 8 stops but bleeds on the film.

> After a quick google Silkjet seems to be available in the USA
> Jetstar doesn't.

Both are available from info@... (that's where I got mine).

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-17 by DJ Delorie

"leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
> DJ reckons they are about the same. I have to use the more expensive
> JetStar Premium with my HP 5940, the ordinary stuff was OK with the
> Epson printer I used to use.

IIRC the difference is that premium supports both ink and pigment, the
other only supports one.  My printer happens to be the type that they
both support, so I see no difference.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Printing directly on the cobberplates

2009-08-17 by Felipe Uderman

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm

[]�s,

- Uderman
http://www.temadigital.com.br/



On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Keld S�rensen <keld.soerensen@...>wrote:

>
>
> I heard someone did do that � is there a description somewhere or some
> pictures of the changes to the printer ?
>
> Best regards
>
> Ksor, Denmark
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Printing directly on the cobberplates

2009-08-17 by Stefan Trethan

You beat me to it ;-)

But then I was delayed by the new video on the page...

Perhaps some day I will get my modified printer from the attic and
resume my experiments.

ST
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Felipe Uderman<felipe.uderman@...> wrote:
> http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
>
> []´s,
>
> - Uderman
> http://www.temadigital.com.br/
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Keld Sørensen <keld.soerensen@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I heard someone did do that – is there a description somewhere or some
>> pictures of the changes to the printer ?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Ksor, Denmark
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-20 by fana cute

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, leon Heller <leon355@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: leon Heller <leon355@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 7:59 AM






 




    
                  ----- Original Message ----- 

From: "pr0pert" <propert@qwest. net>

To: <Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com>

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 3:39 PM

Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives



> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>>

>>

>> "leon Heller" <leon355@... > writes:

>> > I print directly onto transparency material (Mega Electronics JetStar).

>>

>> Me too, or Silkjet.  Both seem to work well for me, although I had to

>> write my own printer driver to get enough ink onto the page.

>>

> Thanks for this information. Looks like a great way to go.

> Any preference of dye or pigment? which works best? Also any printer

> to suggest or stay away from? Yeh I know lots of questions. A fter

> a quick google Silkjet seems to be available in the USA Jetstar doesn't.



DJD reckons they are about the same. I have to use the more expensive 

JetStar Premium with my HP 5940, the ordinary stuff was OK with the Epson 

printer I used to use. I don't know if Silkjet makes a premium version. You 

can buy JetStar from Farnell/Newark in the USA.



The HP 5940 is a very cheap printer but works very well, I can get down to 5 

mil tracks, although I normally use 10 mil or more.



Leon



Leon 

Anybody  has tried with HP laserjet 1010 and HP deskjet 2566 with plastic trasnparency OHP ?
thanks 


_Naste


  

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-20 by DJ Delorie

fana cute <fan_nastelroy@...> writes:
> Anybody  has tried with HP laserjet 1010 and HP deskjet 2566 with
> plastic trasnparency OHP ?

I've tried laser transparencies, but (1) the resolution is poor and
(2) toner doesn't block as much UV as you'd need.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-20 by fana cute

yes, it same with my result.
I have try it too at 'paper oil', it have better resolution, but it not finished my problem, its very difficult to developing the board.   
finally i go to photo store for $1.5 to create my negative...best result
--- On Wed, 8/19/09, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DJ Delorie <dj@...>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 7:32 PM






 




    
                  

fana cute <fan_nastelroy@ yahoo.com> writes:

> Anybody  has tried with HP laserjet 1010 and HP deskjet 2566 with

> plastic trasnparency OHP ?



I've tried laser transparencies, but (1) the resolution is poor and

(2) toner doesn't block as much UV as you'd need.


 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Making negatives

2009-08-20 by pr0pert

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> "leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
> > DJ reckons they are about the same. I have to use the more expensive
> > JetStar Premium with my HP 5940, the ordinary stuff was OK with the
> > Epson printer I used to use.
> 
> IIRC the difference is that premium supports both ink and pigment, the
> other only supports one.  My printer happens to be the type that they
> both support, so I see no difference.
>
OK I've ordered some Silkjet media and I'm ready to try this, but I
may have gotten ahead of myself. It seems all the PCB editors 
output positive prints. How are you getting a negative print to be
able to use a negative process resist? Is there a way of doing this 
with a gerber file? Hidden options for printing? turning the printer 
upside down ;)?

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-20 by DJ Delorie

"pr0pert" <propert@...> writes:
> OK I've ordered some Silkjet media and I'm ready to try this, but I
> may have gotten ahead of myself. It seems all the PCB editors output
> positive prints. How are you getting a negative print to be able to
> use a negative process resist? Is there a way of doing this with a
> gerber file? Hidden options for printing? turning the printer upside
> down ;)?

Search the archives for answers.  Mine is to use a custom print driver
that knows how to do inverse and mirror images, as well as put down
more ink than usual.  I put the sources to my driver at
http://www.delorie.com/pcb/pbm2escp2.zip but it will only be useful if
you have a 2880 DPI Epson (or ESC2 compatible) printer, and a way of
generating PBM files and printing raw data.  I.e. "works best on
Linux" ;-)

And not all PCB editors output positives; gEDA's PCB has options
specificially for toner transfer and ink negatives :-)

Another option is to print to a graphic file with an appropriate
resolution (to match your printer), and invert/mirror it in a graphics
editing program.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-21 by fana cute

you may try kicad, it have option to mirror and ploting negative..

--- On Thu, 8/20/09, pr0pert <propert@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: pr0pert <propert@qwest.net>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 2:06 PM






 




    
                  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:

>

> 

> "leon Heller" <leon355@... > writes:

> > DJ reckons they are about the same. I have to use the more expensive

> > JetStar Premium with my HP 5940, the ordinary stuff was OK with the

> > Epson printer I used to use.

> 

> IIRC the difference is that premium supports both ink and pigment, the

> other only supports one.  My printer happens to be the type that they

> both support, so I see no difference.

>

OK I've ordered some Silkjet media and I'm ready to try this, but I

may have gotten ahead of myself. It seems all the PCB editors 

output positive prints. How are you getting a negative print to be

able to use a negative process resist? Is there a way of doing this 

with a gerber file? Hidden options for printing? turning the printer 

upside down ;)?




 

      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives

2009-08-21 by leon Heller

http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "pr0pert" <propert@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Making negatives


> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, DJ Delorie <dj@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "leon Heller" <leon355@...> writes:
>> > DJ reckons they are about the same. I have to use the more expensive
>> > JetStar Premium with my HP 5940, the ordinary stuff was OK with the
>> > Epson printer I used to use.
>>
>> IIRC the difference is that premium supports both ink and pigment, the
>> other only supports one.  My printer happens to be the type that they
>> both support, so I see no difference.
>>
> OK I've ordered some Silkjet media and I'm ready to try this, but I
> may have gotten ahead of myself. It seems all the PCB editors
> output positive prints. How are you getting a negative print to be
> able to use a negative process resist? Is there a way of doing this
> with a gerber file? Hidden options for printing? turning the printer
> upside down ;)?

I use positive resist. The Pulsonix software I use can create negative 
output, though.

Leon

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.