Homebrew PCBs

Have a look at these machines (coincidentally) named "Circuit" and "Circuit Expression". The Circuit machine has been on sale recently for around $85 USD. They seem to be some sort of automated X-Y paper cutters.

I wonder if these could be hacked to cut solder masks, or better yet hacked to cut exposure masks for photo-sensitive PCB's? Anyone have any experience with this? Link:

www.provocraft.com

Regards, David

How about a link?

We purchased one for our daughter at Christmas to use to cut out paper
and vinyl.
I hadn't thought of it for working with solder masks.

It is a light duty machine. Hacking it to carry a focused LED to
expose photo-sensitive PCBs might be an option.  If you can find one
for $85 it might be worth giving it a shot.

On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 7:33 AM, drmail377 <drmail377@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Have a look at these machines (coincidentally) named "Circuit" and "Circuit Expression". The Circuit machine has been on sale recently for around $85 USD. They seem to be some sort of automated X-Y paper cutters.
>
> I wonder if these could be hacked to cut solder masks, or better yet hacked to cut exposure masks for photo-sensitive PCB's? Anyone have any experience with this? Link:
>
> www.provocraft.com
>
> Regards, David
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

On 28/02/2010 13:33, drmail377 wrote:
> Have a look at these machines (coincidentally) named "Circuit" and "Circuit Expression". The Circuit machine has been on sale recently for around $85 USD. They seem to be some sort of automated X-Y paper cutters.
>
> I wonder if these could be hacked to cut solder masks, or better yet hacked to cut exposure masks for photo-sensitive PCB's? Anyone have any experience with this? Link:
>
> www.provocraft.com

The \ufffd60 HP Deskjet printer I use works very well. I can't see that sort 
of thing giving anywhere near the same results.

Leon
-- 
Leon Heller
G1HSM

ROFLMAO!!!

Actually, it is "Cricut". But I can easily see you reading it as "Circuit". That would be funny if they had called it the "Circuit".

http://www.cricut.com

I don't see why it couldn't be used, I used my old Graphtec vinyl cutter to cut a PCB pattern and used that as direct etch resist.
<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/files/Sign_Cutter_to_make_PCBs/>

I could see someone using a vinyl cutter such as the Cricut to cut rubylith for photo exposure. You'd be able to do finer lines than what I attempted since you would not be moving the pattern from the backing.

I've used my vinyl cutter to cut vinyl which I've then applied on front panels or used as paint masking or sandblast masking.

However, I think the Windows software to run a Cricut is extra.

Steve Greenfield


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "drmail377" <drmail377@...> wrote:

>
> Have a look at these machines (coincidentally) named "Circuit" and "Circuit Expression". The Circuit machine has been on sale recently for around $85 USD. They seem to be some sort of automated X-Y paper cutters.
> 
> I wonder if these could be hacked to cut solder masks, or better yet hacked to cut exposure masks for photo-sensitive PCB's? Anyone have any experience with this? Link:
> 
> www.provocraft.com
> 
> Regards, David
>

Link is in the top-post: www.provocraft.com

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, rocko <sunblaster5@...> wrote:

>
> How about a link?
>

Most importantly, here is the link where it is selling at less than half the list, $85 from JoAnn's:

<http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?CATID=cat2064&PRODID=xprd810738>

Keep in mind you'll need to spend another $68 for the computer software, aka Cricut Design Studio Software:

<http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog/productdetail.jsp?pageName=search&flag=true&PRODID=prd24287>

I suppose a sheet of cling film could work for a solder paste mask. It depends on if the Cricut can cut fine little rectangles that small.

Steve Greenfield

Hi all,

 

I have a Cricut that I occasionally use for cutting solder paste stencils,
and it actually works fairly well.  It can cut patterns for SOIC components
easily. anything smaller might be more difficult, though.  Large patterns
seem to stretched too long or too short, but that might be a problem with
the software. 

 

In order to cut your own patterns, you have to use a program called
"Sure-Cuts-A-Lot" that only accepts vector graphics in the SVG file format.
So to use the Cricut for our purposes, you have to export your Gerbers to
SVG.  my PCB design software can't do this, so I have to convert the file to
an intermediate file format first.

 

I use regular overhead transparencies as the material, with the feed rate
set to slow/medium and the pressure set to high.

 

Let me know if you have any specific questions about the process!

 

 

 

Paul Symansky

 

w: www.paulsymansky.com 

w: www.symtechlabs.com

 

"Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum."

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Paul,

So this thing has a computer interface? I didn't pick up on that. My mind just started mentally taking the thing apart and digging into stepper motors (I'm like that). If so, where do you get the sure-cuts-a-lot software you mentioned?

From your explanation, it seems small cut-outs are dimensioned OK, but the larger the cut-outs the more they're stretched in one direction?

Does this device have stepper motors in it? If so, when the matte and knife move rapidly, they would likely "sing".

Regards, David

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Symansky" <symansky@...> wrote:

>
> Hi all,
> 
>  
> 
> I have a Cricut that I occasionally use for cutting solder paste stencils,
> and it actually works fairly well.  It can cut patterns for SOIC components
> easily. anything smaller might be more difficult, though.  Large patterns
> seem to stretched too long or too short, but that might be a problem with
> the software. 
> 
>  
> 
> In order to cut your own patterns, you have to use a program called
> "Sure-Cuts-A-Lot" that only accepts vector graphics in the SVG file format.
> So to use the Cricut for our purposes, you have to export your Gerbers to
> SVG.  my PCB design software can't do this, so I have to convert the file to
> an intermediate file format first.
> 
>  
> 
> I use regular overhead transparencies as the material, with the feed rate
> set to slow/medium and the pressure set to high.
> 
>  
> 
> Let me know if you have any specific questions about the process!
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Symansky
> 
>  
> 
> w: www.paulsymansky.com 
> 
> w: www.symtechlabs.com
> 
>  
> 
> "Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum."
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi David,

 

Yes, it has a computer interface.  Provo Craft distributes certain software
to connect to the machine, modify certain patterns and upgrade the firmware.
Their software cannot, however, be used to cut custom patterns - they prefer
that you buy their $60 cartridges and use only the patterns on them.  

 

Sure-Cuts-a-Lot is made by Craft Edge and can be found here:

 

http://www.craftedge.com/index.html

 

They must have found some vulnerability in the Cricut firmware, because SCAL
only works with certain firmware versions.  

 

Larger patterns do tend to get skewed in one dimension.  Like I said,
though, it could very well be an artifact of changing file types so much.
It could also be a bug in SCAL or the Cricut firmware.

 

I'm fairly certain Cricuts use stepper motors.  They do exhibit the
characteristic hum of stepper motors, and servos motors would undoubtedly
raise the cost significantly.  Nonetheless, the device can cut fairly
complex patterns quickly (< 15 minutes for the most complex patterns I've
cut).    

 

I've got to mention that I'm not the one to discover the technique of using
a Cricut to cut solder past stencils.  I found this Instructable which
prompted me to begin my own experimentation:

 

http://www.instructables.com/id/Create_Solder_Paste_Stencils_with_Cricut/

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Paul Symansky

 

w: www.paulsymansky.com 

w: www.symtechlabs.com

 

"Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum."

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Symansky" <symansky@...> wrote:
>
> I'm fairly certain Cricuts use stepper motors.  They do exhibit the
> characteristic hum of stepper motors, and servos motors would undoubtedly
> raise the cost significantly.  Nonetheless, the device can cut fairly
> complex patterns quickly (< 15 minutes for the most complex patterns I've
> cut).    

Many desktop printers use DC servo motors -because- they are cheap. Epson and HP have optical encoder strips, because the X direction is controlled by a DC servo motor.

Steve Greenfield

Re:  Re: Cheap Automated Cutting Machine - Mod for PCB Masks? 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50166503@N00/sets/72157600156419851/

The circuit seems really simple. Unfortunatly in the EU the machine
is not so cheap. I really want to get one and to update it with
DVD red laser and eventually better (microstepping) drivers.
The device seem to be created for making solderpaste printing stencils
out of mylar foils, when updated with the laser from broken dvd writer,
but at the end it\ufffds nothing more then a printer, return back to the printer.

-- 
GMX DSL: Internet, Telefon und Entertainment f\ufffdr nur 19,99 EUR/mtl.!
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02

Steve,

 

It's interesting that you say that.  Out of the 25+ Epson and HP printers
I've torn down for parts, the vast majority use stepper motors over DC
servos.  The ones that did use DC motors, but not necessarily servo motors,
used them for gross movement in the Y direction after being significantly
geared down.  

 

In general, stepper motors are far cheaper than true DC servo motors.  DC
motors with separate optical encoders are a different story.

 

Regards,

 

   

 

Paul Symansky

 

w: www.paulsymansky.com 

w: www.symtechlabs.com

 

"Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum."

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting. Maybe I'm remembering some of the incorrectly, but I do recall encoder strips for DC motors moving the heads left and right.

Hm.... I guess not the Epsons. I was remembering that incorrectly. You've got me there.

HPs and Lexmarks, however, most definitely use encoder strips. Note that they still use steppers to move the paper. The DC motor is used to move the printhead.

If it is being used as a servomotor, does it matter where the position sensor is?

Steve Greenfield

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@...m, "Paul Symansky" <symansky@...> wrote:

>
> Steve,
> 
>  
> 
> It's interesting that you say that.  Out of the 25+ Epson and HP printers
> I've torn down for parts, the vast majority use stepper motors over DC
> servos.  The ones that did use DC motors, but not necessarily servo motors,
> used them for gross movement in the Y direction after being significantly
> geared down.  
> 
>  
> 
> In general, stepper motors are far cheaper than true DC servo motors.  DC
> motors with separate optical encoders are a different story.
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
>  
> 
>    
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Symansky
> 
>  
> 
> w: www.paulsymansky.com 
> 
> w: www.symtechlabs.com
> 
>  
> 
> "Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum."
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Steve,

Your memory serves you well.  I have pulled encoder strips and the read head from several epson printers.  They are 720 CPI which matches the 720 DPI resolution of the printer.  I used those on my last CNC machine before using US Digital encoders (linear strips).

There was a DC motor attached to the axis that moves the print head and the encoder strip was just above the print head behind the belts. 

So, to me the DC motor, coupled with the linear encoder is a servo motor.

Chris



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "alienrelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:

>
> Interesting. Maybe I'm remembering some of the incorrectly, but I do recall encoder strips for DC motors moving the heads left and right.
> 
> Hm.... I guess not the Epsons. I was remembering that incorrectly. You've got me there.
> 
> HPs and Lexmarks, however, most definitely use encoder strips. Note that they still use steppers to move the paper. The DC motor is used to move the printhead.
> 
> If it is being used as a servomotor, does it matter where the position sensor is?
> 
> Steve Greenfield
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Symansky" <symansky@> wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > It's interesting that you say that.  Out of the 25+ Epson and HP printers
> > I've torn down for parts, the vast majority use stepper motors over DC
> > servos.  The ones that did use DC motors, but not necessarily servo motors,
> > used them for gross movement in the Y direction after being significantly
> > geared down.  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > In general, stepper motors are far cheaper than true DC servo motors.  DC
> > motors with separate optical encoders are a different story.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >    
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Paul Symansky
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > w: www.paulsymansky.com 
> > 
> > w: www.symtechlabs.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > "Solum potestis prohibere ignes silvarum."
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "alienrelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting. Maybe I'm remembering some of the incorrectly, but I do recall encoder strips for DC motors moving the heads left and right.
> 
>


Servo motors are not too difficult to drive. Google Elm Chan, talented guy, he's got a simple AVR based servo driver that ought to be capable of running the printer servos with external encoders. Not sure if they output a standard quadrature signal but the code could be tweaked to deal with whatever they do put out.

> >  
> > 
> > In order to cut your own patterns, you have to use a program called
> > "Sure-Cuts-A-Lot" that only accepts vector graphics in the SVG file format.
> > So to use the Cricut for our purposes, you have to export your Gerbers to
> > SVG.  my PCB design software can't do this, so I have to convert the file to
> > an intermediate file format first.
> > 
> >  
>


I've toyed with picking one of these up on sale in order to hack. Seems somebody must have explored this already though. The software interface they offer is far too limited for my liking, I want full control over the hardware with a standard interface.