Homebrew PCBs

Hi everyone,

I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year.  The paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner transfer.

The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers which have been highly recomended.  After spending about 50 dollars on various papers, I gave up on that brand.  

Chris

Boy does that question always open up a can of worms! A lot depends on how many boards and what size you do per year. It is the best by far - just floats off the board during soaking for less than a minute with good toner transer.  The stuff seems darn expensive at about $1.70 per 8X10 sheet shipped.  Actual cost is $13.80/pack of 10 sheets from DigiKey, then add a couple or $3 for shipping you'll have close to $1.70/sheet.

That single sheet can be used 4 (or more) times.   I also cut the paper to sise of my board:  3"X4" board, I just a paper just larger.  After the toner transfer and paper floats off, I hang paper up to dry and reuse.  I've used at least 4 times, and once 5 times. 

Used in this manner a $17 shipped back of 10 sheets can last well over a yr - depending on how many boards you make a week or month.

I've got some Staples Presentation paper that does a good job with toner transfer,  but more hassle to remove from copper.  Not bad, but just a bit more. I don't have a number here, but it was purchased 3 or 4 months ago.

have fun ;)

Ken h>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year.  The paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner transfer.
> 
> The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers which have been highly recomended.  After spending about 50 dollars on various papers, I gave up on that brand.  
> 
> Chris
>

Well which paper ? I don't see where you specify.

 

 

 

Best Regards,

Steve Maroney

 

Business Computer Support, LLC

Mobile Phone:504-914-4704

Office Phone: 504-904-0266

Fax: 866-871-7797

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sailingto
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:55 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What are the latest paper recomendations...

 

  


Boy does that question always open up a can of worms! A lot depends on
how many boards and what size you do per year. It is the best by far -
just floats off the board during soaking for less than a minute with
good toner transer. The stuff seems darn expensive at about $1.70 per
8X10 sheet shipped. Actual cost is $13.80/pack of 10 sheets from
DigiKey, then add a couple or $3 for shipping you'll have close to
$1.70/sheet.

That single sheet can be used 4 (or more) times. I also cut the paper to
sise of my board: 3"X4" board, I just a paper just larger. After the
toner transfer and paper floats off, I hang paper up to dry and reuse.
I've used at least 4 times, and once 5 times. 

Used in this manner a $17 shipped back of 10 sheets can last well over a
yr - depending on how many boards you make a week or month.

I've got some Staples Presentation paper that does a good job with toner
transfer, but more hassle to remove from copper. Not bad, but just a bit
more. I don't have a number here, but it was purchased 3 or 4 months
ago.

have fun ;)

Ken h>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <lcdpublishing@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all
realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year. The
paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run
across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner
transfer.
> 
> The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers
which have been highly recomended. After spending about 50 dollars on
various papers, I gave up on that brand. 
> 
> Chris
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't recommend press n peel blue.  I've tried it and am not happy
with the results .  Yes, 99% of the toner transfers, but fixing that 1%
with a touch up marker is a pain in the ass.

 

 

 

 

Best Regards,

Steve Maroney

 

Business Computer Support, LLC

Mobile Phone:504-914-4704

Office Phone: 504-904-0266

Fax: 866-871-7797

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sailingto
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:55 PM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What are the latest paper recomendations...

 

  


Boy does that question always open up a can of worms! A lot depends on
how many boards and what size you do per year. It is the best by far -
just floats off the board during soaking for less than a minute with
good toner transer. The stuff seems darn expensive at about $1.70 per
8X10 sheet shipped. Actual cost is $13.80/pack of 10 sheets from
DigiKey, then add a couple or $3 for shipping you'll have close to
$1.70/sheet.

That single sheet can be used 4 (or more) times. I also cut the paper to
sise of my board: 3"X4" board, I just a paper just larger. After the
toner transfer and paper floats off, I hang paper up to dry and reuse.
I've used at least 4 times, and once 5 times. 

Used in this manner a $17 shipped back of 10 sheets can last well over a
yr - depending on how many boards you make a week or month.

I've got some Staples Presentation paper that does a good job with toner
transfer, but more hassle to remove from copper. Not bad, but just a bit
more. I don't have a number here, but it was purchased 3 or 4 months
ago.

have fun ;)

Ken h>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chris" <lcdpublishing@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all
realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year. The
paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run
across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner
transfer.
> 
> The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers
which have been highly recomended. After spending about 50 dollars on
various papers, I gave up on that brand. 
> 
> Chris
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Maroney" <steve@...> wrote:
>
> Well which paper ? I don't see where you specify.

AS I said, "it depends" - is cost a factor?  How many boards per year?

As I said, Pulsar toner transfer paper is a better for toner transfer than anything I've ever used in the past.  read about it here:

http://tinyurl.com/ylcgjku_paper.html

but I'd buy it from DigiKey.

I "think" most everyone has good luck with Pulsar paper - comments from anyone who has problems with Pulsar toner transfer paper?

Ken

HP Color Presentation Paper works like charm for me. Details from the package:

Hp Color presentation Paper, Glossy
8.5x11"
34 lb
95 Brightness
300 sheets
Product: Q2546A

Bought it at Staples and it was cheap as I recall. It does leave a residue on the traces, but I remove this by light wiping with a MrClean Magic Eraser prior to application of TRF Green Film to seal the traces. Green Film doesn't adhere well to the paper residue.

Baxter


--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year.  The paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner transfer.
> 
> The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers which have been highly recomended.  After spending about 50 dollars on various papers, I gave up on that brand.  
> 
> Chris
>

Ken, if you check your previous post, you will see that you left out "Pulsar toner transfer paper" -- you just said "it is better ...." 

Having seen many discussions on this topic, I was pretty sure you were talking about Pulsar paper, but someone new to the board would not have had any way to know that. :)

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Maroney" <steve@> wrote:
> >
> > Well which paper ? I don't see where you specify.
> 
> AS I said, "it depends" - is cost a factor?  How many boards per year?
> 
> As I said, Pulsar toner transfer paper is a better for toner transfer than anything I've ever used in the past.  read about it here:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/ylcgjku_paper.html
> 
> but I'd buy it from DigiKey.
> 
> I "think" most everyone has good luck with Pulsar paper - comments from anyone who has problems with Pulsar toner transfer paper?
> 
> Ken
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Maroney" <steve@...> wrote:
>
> Well which paper ? I don't see where you specify.

OOooops! you are correct - I sure talked about "it" a lot but no names...  Ooops!

Ken

> 
> HP Color Presentation Paper works like charm for me. Details from the package:
> 
> Hp Color presentation Paper, Glossy
> 8.5x11"
> 34 lb
> 95 Brightness
> 300 sheets
> Product: Q2546A
> 

I think that is the same HP Presentation paper I've used - the number looks familair, and the image of the package looks the same. My experience is the same - good toner transfer, but white residue left, but it etches right thru.  I've not had any success with the Pulsar green film - no need for it when the laminator is 310F or so.  Below 300F there have been issues with toner not adhering to copper.  Above 310F - no problems.

Ken H>

Hi,

 

The only trouble I've had, in my limited experience, with Pulsar paper
is when I followed Pulsar's directions. They say to run it through their
laminator once each, forward and backward. That's way too little. The
traces lifted during soaking. It worked to run the board through 10 to
12 times, mixing forward, backward, and upside-down.

 

Jim

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sailingto
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 8:46 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What are the latest paper recomendations...

 

  



--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Maroney" <steve@...>
wrote:
>
> Well which paper ? I don't see where you specify.

AS I said, "it depends" - is cost a factor? How many boards per year?

As I said, Pulsar toner transfer paper is a better for toner transfer
than anything I've ever used in the past. read about it here:

http://tinyurl.com/ylcgjku_paper.html

but I'd buy it from DigiKey.

I "think" most everyone has good luck with Pulsar paper - comments from
anyone who has problems with Pulsar toner transfer paper?

Ken





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year.  The paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner transfer.
> 
> The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers which have been highly recomended.  After spending about 50 dollars on various papers, I gave up on that brand.  
> 
> Chris
>


I still get the best most consistent results using catalogs that come in the mail. I get loads of junkmail printed on that really thin glossy stuff that a lot of magazines are printed on, it practically dissolves in water and floats off, no scrubbing required, even between thin traces. I always found with the photo paper I had to do a lot of scrubbing to clean out small gaps.

Thanks, I will give this stuff a try.  


Regarding the pulsar paper, it has worked okay for me too, but the price is a drawback.  That gets things pretty close to using photo process boards relative to costs and such (still cheaper though).

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "bebx2000" <bebx2000@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HP Color Presentation Paper works like charm for me. Details from the package:
> 
> Hp Color presentation Paper, Glossy
> 8.5x11"
> 34 lb
> 95 Brightness
> 300 sheets
> Product: Q2546A
> 
> Bought it at Staples and it was cheap as I recall. It does leave a residue on the traces, but I remove this by light wiping with a MrClean Magic Eraser prior to application of TRF Green Film to seal the traces. Green Film doesn't adhere well to the paper residue.
> 
> Baxter
> 
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <lcdpublishing@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > 
> > I know this question keeps popping up but by now I think we all realize that what product worked last year isn't so good this year.  The paper mfgs. keep changing their products and in all cases I have run across so far, it might be better for printing but it sucks for toner transfer.
> > 
> > The last go around I had was with a variety of "Staples" brand papers which have been highly recomended.  After spending about 50 dollars on various papers, I gave up on that brand.  
> > 
> > Chris
> >
>

On 04/06/2010 12:17 PM, bebx2000 wrote:

> HP Color Presentation Paper works like charm for me. Details from the package:
>
> Hp Color presentation Paper, Glossy
> 8.5x11"
> 34 lb
> 95 Brightness
> 300 sheets
> Product: Q2546A


Unfortunately I cannot say I'm too happy with this paper. It leaves a 
lot of residue and I need to work with my thumb for a good ten minutes 
to clean up a 160x100mm board.

bye
as

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <lcdpublishing@...> wrote:
> Thanks, I will give this stuff a try.  
> 
> Regarding the pulsar paper, it has worked okay for me too, but the price is a drawback.  That gets things pretty close to using photo process boards relative to costs and such (still cheaper though).
> 

Price is why I took so long to try it myself - but once I figured the cost per PCB (3"X4" typical?) was less than 5 cents USD (this is with reusing same paper 4 or 5 times) I decided the cost wasn't so bad for the convenience.  for results - I'm not sure results are much (any?) better than the HP Presentation paper.

Ken H>

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:27:42 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi,
>
> 
>
>The only trouble I've had, in my limited experience, with Pulsar paper
>is when I followed Pulsar's directions. They say to run it through their
>laminator once each, forward and backward. That's way too little. The
>traces lifted during soaking. It worked to run the board through 10 to
>12 times, mixing forward, backward, and upside-down.
>

Possible that the laminator is not hot enough or does not have enough
pressure.  10 times is a bit more than I use, I do 8x.  Make sure that
your laser printer is set to maximum density.

Also make sure that the green film is run through multiple times at
the highest pressure and temperature.  If you remove the film and
*any* green remains in the clear areas, you have not heated the board
enough.  I actually use two laminators, one high temperature, one
higher pressure.  Not ideal, but it seems to work.

Harvey

> 
>
>Jim
>
> 
>
>From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sailingto
>Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 8:46 AM
>To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: What are the latest paper recomendations...
>
> 
>
>  
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
><mailto:Homebrew_PCBs%40yahoogroups.com> , "Steve Maroney" <steve@...>
>wrote:
>>
>> Well which paper ? I don't see where you specify.
>
>AS I said, "it depends" - is cost a factor? How many boards per year?
>
>As I said, Pulsar toner transfer paper is a better for toner transfer
>than anything I've ever used in the past. read about it here:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/ylcgjku_paper.html
>
>but I'd buy it from DigiKey.
>
>I "think" most everyone has good luck with Pulsar paper - comments from
>anyone who has problems with Pulsar toner transfer paper?
>
>Ken
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> 
> I still get the best most consistent results using catalogs that come in the mail. I get loads of junkmail printed on that really thin glossy stuff that a lot of magazines are printed on, it practically dissolves in water and floats off, no scrubbing required, even between thin traces. I always found with the photo paper I had to do a lot of scrubbing to clean out small gaps.
>

I'd sure like to find some of that magazine paper - the mag paper I've used is a slick glossy type and does a good toner transfer, but is a good bit harder to get off requiring a good bit of rubbing.  Perhaps as much if not more than the HP Presentation paper I've used.

The mag paper I've used is not that thin - it will go thru the printer without taping to a carrier sheet. I'll look for some of the thin stuff that requires a carrier to try that. BTW, you mention "thin" paper, do you use a carrier sheet? 

I sure though I'd found a great paper in the parchment baking paper - just peeled off - didn't even have to use water. Darn stuff does not do a good toner transfer.

Ken H>

The thing that's always held me back is the presence of all that existing print on mag/catalog paper. I just think it would ... affect toner adhesion, and smear everywhere. I guess I should try it ..

PG

On 07/04/2010, at 10:24 PM, sailingto wrote:

> > 
> > I still get the best most consistent results using catalogs that come in the mail. I get loads of junkmail printed on that really thin glossy stuff that a lot of magazines are printed on, it practically dissolves in water and floats off, no scrubbing required, even between thin traces. I always found with the photo paper I had to do a lot of scrubbing to clean out small gaps.
> >
> 
> I'd sure like to find some of that magazine paper - the mag paper I've used is a slick glossy type and does a good toner transfer, but is a good bit harder to get off requiring a good bit of rubbing. Perhaps as much if not more than the HP Presentation paper I've used.
> 
> The mag paper I've used is not that thin - it will go thru the printer without taping to a carrier sheet. I'll look for some of the thin stuff that requires a carrier to try that. BTW, you mention "thin" paper, do you use a carrier sheet? 
> 
> I sure though I'd found a great paper in the parchment baking paper - just peeled off - didn't even have to use water. Darn stuff does not do a good toner transfer.
> 
> Ken H>
> 
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Piers Goodhew <piers@...> wrote:
>
> The thing that's always held me back is the presence of all that existing print on mag/catalog paper. I just think it would ... affect toner adhesion, and smear everywhere. I guess I should try it ..

The print on the paper doesn't seem to affect much - it transfers to the copper, but is on top of the toner, not between toner and copper so doesn't affect that. The print does not seem to protect the copper so will etch right thru.  That has been my experience anyway when using mag paper.

Ken H>

If it is the same paper that I am currently using -- it sounds the same, but I don't have the part number in front of me -- then I have found that it is extremely difficult to soak the paper off. OTOH, I have had very good results if I peel the paper off immediately after the last pass through the laminator while everything is still very hot. It peels off, leaving the toner behind.* It also leaves a white residue on top of the toner, but this does not interfere with etching at all.

*I often get one or two small "specks" per board that stay with the paper rather than on the board -- especially on larger traces/pads/ground planes -- but it is easy to see exactly where I need to do a little touch up with a pen by looking at the paper. I tended to get similar specks/defects using other paper and soaking off, but I couldn't always tell easily where the problem would be.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Alessio Sangalli <alesan@...> wrote:

>
> On 04/06/2010 12:17 PM, bebx2000 wrote:
> 
> > HP Color Presentation Paper works like charm for me. Details from the package:
> >
> > Hp Color presentation Paper, Glossy
> > 8.5x11"
> > 34 lb
> > 95 Brightness
> > 300 sheets
> > Product: Q2546A
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I cannot say I'm too happy with this paper. It leaves a 
> lot of residue and I need to work with my thumb for a good ten minutes 
> to clean up a 160x100mm board.
> 
> bye
> as
>

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "sailingto" <sailingtoo@...> wrote:
>
> > 
> > I still get the best most consistent results using catalogs that come in the mail. I get loads of junkmail printed on that really thin glossy stuff that a lot of magazines are printed on, it practically dissolves in water and floats off, no scrubbing required, even between thin traces. I always found with the photo paper I had to do a lot of scrubbing to clean out small gaps.
> >
> 
> I'd sure like to find some of that magazine paper - the mag paper I've used is a slick glossy type and does a good toner transfer, but is a good bit harder to get off requiring a good bit of rubbing.  Perhaps as much if not more than the HP Presentation paper I've used.
> 
> The mag paper I've used is not that thin - it will go thru the printer without taping to a carrier sheet. I'll look for some of the thin stuff that requires a carrier to try that. BTW, you mention "thin" paper, do you use a carrier sheet? 
> 
> I sure though I'd found a great paper in the parchment baking paper - just peeled off - didn't even have to use water. Darn stuff does not do a good toner transfer.
> 
> Ken H>
>


I've used catalogs from Action Lighting with great results, Crutchfield worked well too. The last couple of boards I made were with pages from a Women's Health magazine that showed up. I don't use a carrier sheet, I just feed the thin stuff through my laser printer using the manual feed tray on the side. Sometimes I have to poke it in by hand to get it to feed but with a little practice I can get a good print at least 90% of the time. It's gotta be the thin paper, thicker stuff takes too long to dissolve and leaves too much crud.