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Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-07-21 by gnuvvekaavaali

I am looking for suggestions on the choice of 
Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser 
printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.

My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I 
used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
with different types of paper. 
Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still 
had some improper transfers.

The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb printing, and I can get that for cheap.
Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-07-21 by Bob Butcher

I have had a  lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some other printers, but am not sure what the problem is. 
I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old school
 chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would interface to a modern computer.

Bob

--- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM







 



  


    
      
      
      I am looking for suggestions on the choice of 

Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser 

printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.

I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.



My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I 

used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,

with different types of paper. 

Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still 

had some improper transfers.



The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb printing, and I can get that for cheap.

Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.





    
     

    
    


 



  






      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-07-21 by Leslie Newell

Flatbed plotters are available. I have tried this approach and never 
found a good solution. The main problems were that the ink tends to 
creep so you don't get a very sharp line and the pens block very easily. 
About the best result I had was by printing with red ink onto photo 
sensitive board. Then expose and develop as as per normal. This saved 
the hassle of producing a transparency but was hardly worth the effort.

Les
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 21/07/10 10:53, Bob Butcher wrote:
> I have had a  lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some other printers, but am not sure what the problem is.
> I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old school
>   chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would interface to a modern computer.
>
> Bob
>
> -
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-07-21 by P COUNSELL

I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland DXY-880A plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter pen to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine for prototyping.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Butcher 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?


    
  I have had a  lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some other printers, but am not sure what the problem is. 
  I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old school
  chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would interface to a modern computer.

  Bob

  --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:

  From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM

   

  I am looking for suggestions on the choice of 

  Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser 

  printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.

  I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.

  My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I 

  used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,

  with different types of paper. 

  Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still 

  had some improper transfers.

  The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb printing, and I can get that for cheap.

  Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-07-21 by gnuvvekaavaali

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Bob Butcher <bbutcher85@...> wrote:
> I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer >to directly print on the rigid PCB material. 

Thanks to James Newton for collecting all this info -

http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/directinkjetresist.htm
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/pcb/etch/Artisan50.htm

Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-08-02 by borgrailuk

Hi,

Sounds interesting. How did you modify the plotter pen height and which pens/ink did you use?

I have a DXY1200 - not too keen to modify height but am planning on using a slightly thinner pcb, which will fit.

Stephen Freeman

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland DXY-880A plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter pen to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine for prototyping.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Bob Butcher 
>   To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
> 
> 
>     
>   I have had a  lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some other printers, but am not sure what the problem is. 
>   I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old school
>   chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would interface to a modern computer.
> 
>   Bob
> 
>   --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
> 
>   From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
>   Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>   To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>   Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM
> 
>    
> 
>   I am looking for suggestions on the choice of 
> 
>   Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser 
> 
>   printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
> 
>   I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.
> 
>   My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I 
> 
>   used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
> 
>   with different types of paper. 
> 
>   Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still 
> 
>   had some improper transfers.
> 
>   The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb printing, and I can get that for cheap.
> 
>   Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.
> 
>   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-08-02 by P COUNSELL

I modified my DXY880a very easily by using a piece of standard pcb board so that the pen height was perfect for standard thickness pcbs.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: borgrailuk 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:30 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?


    
  Hi,

  Sounds interesting. How did you modify the plotter pen height and which pens/ink did you use?

  I have a DXY1200 - not too keen to modify height but am planning on using a slightly thinner pcb, which will fit.

  Stephen Freeman

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...> wrote:
  >
  > I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland DXY-880A plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter pen to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine for prototyping.
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: Bob Butcher 
  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I have had a lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some other printers, but am not sure what the problem is. 
  > I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old school
  > chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would interface to a modern computer.
  > 
  > Bob
  > 
  > --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
  > 
  > From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
  > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I am looking for suggestions on the choice of 
  > 
  > Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser 
  > 
  > printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
  > 
  > I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.
  > 
  > My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I 
  > 
  > used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
  > 
  > with different types of paper. 
  > 
  > Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still 
  > 
  > had some improper transfers.
  > 
  > The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb printing, and I can get that for cheap.
  > 
  > Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-08-02 by P COUNSELL

Unfortunately athough I have some pens whuch were designed for pcbs they are no longer availabe for rowland plotters. I do not see that as a big problem . I intend to use EDDING 404 PEN TIPS with edding 404 refill ink with a homemade holder. I will first try recharging my existing tips when they run out with EDDING PERMANENT MARKER REFILL INK, I expect this to work fine.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: P COUNSELL 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?


    
  I modified my DXY880a very easily by using a piece of standard pcb board so that the pen height was perfect for standard thickness pcbs.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: borgrailuk 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:30 PM
  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

  Hi,

  Sounds interesting. How did you modify the plotter pen height and which pens/ink did you use?

  I have a DXY1200 - not too keen to modify height but am planning on using a slightly thinner pcb, which will fit.

  Stephen Freeman

  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...> wrote:
  >
  > I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland DXY-880A plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter pen to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine for prototyping.
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: Bob Butcher 
  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I have had a lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some other printers, but am not sure what the problem is. 
  > I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old school
  > chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would interface to a modern computer.
  > 
  > Bob
  > 
  > --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
  > 
  > From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
  > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I am looking for suggestions on the choice of 
  > 
  > Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser 
  > 
  > printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
  > 
  > I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.
  > 
  > My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I 
  > 
  > used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
  > 
  > with different types of paper. 
  > 
  > Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still 
  > 
  > had some improper transfers.
  > 
  > The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb printing, and I can get that for cheap.
  > 
  > Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-08-02 by VK3YV

Hi, on seeing you are using a Roland Plotter for pcb drawing I have a query, 
I have a Roland DXY 800 for which I have no information i.e.. dip switch 
settings etc. that I would also like to use for PCB work. I have no 
information at all about it , I don't even know what language it talks. Can 
any one help, I have searched for hours but cant find anything regarding 
setup or language/ emulation .
Regards,
Don VK3YV.....
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?


> Unfortunately athough I have some pens whuch were designed for pcbs they 
> are no longer availabe for rowland plotters. I do not see that as a big 
> problem . I intend to use EDDING 404 PEN TIPS with edding 404 refill ink 
> with a homemade holder. I will first try recharging my existing tips when 
> they run out with EDDING PERMANENT MARKER REFILL INK, I expect this to 
> work fine.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: P COUNSELL
>  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:41 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>
>
>
>  I modified my DXY880a very easily by using a piece of standard pcb board 
> so that the pen height was perfect for standard thickness pcbs.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: borgrailuk
>  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:30 PM
>  Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>
>  Hi,
>
>  Sounds interesting. How did you modify the plotter pen height and which 
> pens/ink did you use?
>
>  I have a DXY1200 - not too keen to modify height but am planning on using 
> a slightly thinner pcb, which will fit.
>
>  Stephen Freeman
>
>  --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland DXY-880A 
> plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter pen 
> to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do 
> tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on 
> printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine 
> for prototyping.
>  > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  > From: Bob Butcher
>  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
>  > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I have had a lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 
> 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have 
> found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some 
> other printers, but am not sure what the problem is.
>  > I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to 
> directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most 
> of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will 
> dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers 
> that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen 
> are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy 
> inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if 
> you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on 
> old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but 
> the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a 
> roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, 
> so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed 
> printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old 
> school
>  > chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would 
> interface to a modern computer.
>  >
>  > Bob
>  >
>  > --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
>  > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I am looking for suggestions on the choice of
>  >
>  > Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser
>  >
>  > printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
>  >
>  > I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.
>  >
>  > My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I
>  >
>  > used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
>  >
>  > with different types of paper.
>  >
>  > Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still
>  >
>  > had some improper transfers.
>  >
>  > The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb 
> printing, and I can get that for cheap.
>  >
>  > Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-08-02 by casy_ch@tbwil.ch

Hi Don

In the past I have had a DXY800 and later a DXY1150.

All use HPGL (Hewlett Packard Graphic Language). Your programm should have a HPGL driver and will generate a <xx.PLT> file.

If you go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPGL
you will find the language it is using.

73 de Jean-Claude, Switzerland
HE9EZX
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: VK3YV 
  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 3:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?


    
  Hi, on seeing you are using a Roland Plotter for pcb drawing I have a query, 
  I have a Roland DXY 800 for which I have no information i.e.. dip switch 
  settings etc. that I would also like to use for PCB work. I have no 
  information at all about it , I don't even know what language it talks. Can 
  any one help, I have searched for hours but cant find anything regarding 
  setup or language/ emulation .
  Regards,
  Don VK3YV.....

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...>
  To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

  > Unfortunately athough I have some pens whuch were designed for pcbs they 
  > are no longer availabe for rowland plotters. I do not see that as a big 
  > problem . I intend to use EDDING 404 PEN TIPS with edding 404 refill ink 
  > with a homemade holder. I will first try recharging my existing tips when 
  > they run out with EDDING PERMANENT MARKER REFILL INK, I expect this to 
  > work fine.
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: P COUNSELL
  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:41 PM
  > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  >
  >
  >
  > I modified my DXY880a very easily by using a piece of standard pcb board 
  > so that the pen height was perfect for standard thickness pcbs.
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: borgrailuk
  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:30 PM
  > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  >
  > Hi,
  >
  > Sounds interesting. How did you modify the plotter pen height and which 
  > pens/ink did you use?
  >
  > I have a DXY1200 - not too keen to modify height but am planning on using 
  > a slightly thinner pcb, which will fit.
  >
  > Stephen Freeman
  >
  > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland DXY-880A 
  > plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter pen 
  > to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do 
  > tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on 
  > printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine 
  > for prototyping.
  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > From: Bob Butcher
  > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  > > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
  > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > I have had a lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother 
  > 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I have 
  > found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than some 
  > other printers, but am not sure what the problem is.
  > > I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to 
  > directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, most 
  > of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will 
  > dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet printers 
  > that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have seen 
  > are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can buy 
  > inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful if 
  > you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have on 
  > old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, but 
  > the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by a 
  > roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the rollers, 
  > so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat bed 
  > printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an old 
  > school
  > > chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that would 
  > interface to a modern computer.
  > >
  > > Bob
  > >
  > > --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
  > >
  > > From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
  > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
  > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
  > > Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > I am looking for suggestions on the choice of
  > >
  > > Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser
  > >
  > > printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
  > >
  > > I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.
  > >
  > > My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I
  > >
  > > used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
  > >
  > > with different types of paper.
  > >
  > > Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still
  > >
  > > had some improper transfers.
  > >
  > > The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb 
  > printing, and I can get that for cheap.
  > >
  > > Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  > ------------------------------------
  >
  > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
  > Photos:
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
  >
  >
  >

  ----------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3044 - Release Date: 08/02/10 
  04:40:00



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?

2010-08-02 by VK3YV

Hi Jean-Claude, that is a big help, now I need to know the DIP switch 
settings, I will be using the parallel port, and hopefully be able to use it 
with win xp, do you still have the dip switch settings?
Many thanks,
Don VK3YV........
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <casy_ch@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?


> Hi Don
>
> In the past I have had a DXY800 and later a DXY1150.
>
> All use HPGL (Hewlett Packard Graphic Language). Your programm should have 
> a HPGL driver and will generate a <xx.PLT> file.
>
> If you go to:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPGL
> you will find the language it is using.
>
> 73 de Jean-Claude, Switzerland
> HE9EZX
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: VK3YV
>  To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 3:02 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>
>
>
>  Hi, on seeing you are using a Roland Plotter for pcb drawing I have a 
> query,
>  I have a Roland DXY 800 for which I have no information i.e.. dip switch
>  settings etc. that I would also like to use for PCB work. I have no
>  information at all about it , I don't even know what language it talks. 
> Can
>  any one help, I have searched for hours but cant find anything regarding
>  setup or language/ emulation .
>  Regards,
>  Don VK3YV.....
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...>
>  To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
>  Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:54 PM
>  Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>
>  > Unfortunately athough I have some pens whuch were designed for pcbs 
> they
>  > are no longer availabe for rowland plotters. I do not see that as a big
>  > problem . I intend to use EDDING 404 PEN TIPS with edding 404 refill 
> ink
>  > with a homemade holder. I will first try recharging my existing tips 
> when
>  > they run out with EDDING PERMANENT MARKER REFILL INK, I expect this to
>  > work fine.
>  > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  > From: P COUNSELL
>  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:41 PM
>  > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I modified my DXY880a very easily by using a piece of standard pcb 
> board
>  > so that the pen height was perfect for standard thickness pcbs.
>  > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  > From: borgrailuk
>  > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 9:30 PM
>  > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>  >
>  > Hi,
>  >
>  > Sounds interesting. How did you modify the plotter pen height and which
>  > pens/ink did you use?
>  >
>  > I have a DXY1200 - not too keen to modify height but am planning on 
> using
>  > a slightly thinner pcb, which will fit.
>  >
>  > Stephen Freeman
>  >
>  > --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "P COUNSELL" <pcounsell@...> 
> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > I have a very good dos program CADPAK and I use an old rowland 
> DXY-880A
>  > plotter. Results are fantastic . I modified the height of the plotter 
> pen
>  > to accomodate standard thickness PCB board. Only problem is it wont do
>  > tracks fine enough for intertrack knecking , itis also very slow on
>  > printing directly onto the copperlaminate but I have a cup of tea. Fine
>  > for prototyping.
>  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
>  > > From: Bob Butcher
>  > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:53 PM
>  > > Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > I have had a lot of trouble with toner transfer as well. My Brother
>  > 1440 laser printer toner will not release reliably from any paper I 
> have
>  > found. I have heard the toner has a higher melting temperature than 
> some
>  > other printers, but am not sure what the problem is.
>  > > I am not sure how you plan to modify the Artisan 50 inkjet printer to
>  > directly print on the rigid PCB material. Another thing to consider, 
> most
>  > of the ink jet ink I have seen is water soluble, so the etchant will
>  > dissolve the ink before it has a chance. I know there are ink jet 
> printers
>  > that are capable of using solvent based inks, but all the ones I have 
> seen
>  > are very expensive, in the several thousands of dollar range. You can 
> buy
>  > inexpensive "paint pens" from art and craft stores that might be useful 
> if
>  > you could find a flat bed printer that could be adapted to pens. I have 
> on
>  > old large format HP printer designed for CAD drafting that uses pens, 
> but
>  > the pen only moves on one axis, and the paper is fed back and forth by 
> a
>  > roller system for the other axis. The paper is wrapped around the 
> rollers,
>  > so it cannot be easily adapted to a rigid PCB. If someone had a flat 
> bed
>  > printer with a moving pen on two axes, that might work. Sounds like an 
> old
>  > school
>  > > chart recorder might work, if you could find a working model that 
> would
>  > interface to a modern computer.
>  > >
>  > > Bob
>  > >
>  > > --- On Wed, 7/21/10, gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > From: gnuvvekaavaali <gnuvvekaavaali@...>
>  > > Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Inkjet or Laser for PCB work?
>  > > To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>  > > Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:22 AM
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > I am looking for suggestions on the choice of
>  > >
>  > > Inkjet (for direct inkjet printing) or laser
>  > >
>  > > printer (toner transfer) for the occasional single sided PCB.
>  > >
>  > > I don't see I will be needing very thin or dense tracks.
>  > >
>  > > My experience with toner transfer have not been too good. I
>  > >
>  > > used a Samsung Laser printer, and a hot clothes iron,
>  > >
>  > > with different types of paper.
>  > >
>  > > Best results have been with glossy magazine paper, but still
>  > >
>  > > had some improper transfers.
>  > >
>  > > The Epson Artisan 50 inkjet seems to be moddable for direct pcb
>  > printing, and I can get that for cheap.
>  > >
>  > > Wondering if this is a easier and reliable way than toner transfer.
>  > >
>  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  > >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > ------------------------------------
>  >
>  > Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and
>  > Photos:
>  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>  No virus found in this incoming message.
>  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>  Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3044 - Release Date: 08/02/10
>  04:40:00
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and 
> Photos:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3044 - Release Date: 08/02/10 
04:40:00

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