Homebrew PCBs

I am trying to make PC boards using the laser printer/laminator  technique. 
 I am using an HP P1102w laser printer, GBC H220 laminator and  Pulsar 
paper.  So far I have used a couple of sheets of paper with nothing  to show for 
it except a dish full of floating traces.  Has anyone else used  this 
method?  I have the printer set at density 5 (max) and heavy paper  (for the 
Pulsar paper).  I have run the boards through the laminator from 2  to 5 times 
with little change in the results.  The paper floats off the  board along 
with most of the traces.  The circuit I'm trying to produce is  an LM317 
voltage regulator with about a dozen components.  Suggestions  would be most 
appreciated.
 
Bill


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On Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:02:46 EDT, you wrote:

>I am trying to make PC boards using the laser printer/laminator  technique. 
> I am using an HP P1102w laser printer, GBC H220 laminator and  Pulsar 
>paper.  So far I have used a couple of sheets of paper with nothing  to show for 
>it except a dish full of floating traces.  Has anyone else used  this 
>method?  I have the printer set at density 5 (max) and heavy paper  (for the 
>Pulsar paper).  I have run the boards through the laminator from 2  to 5 times 
>with little change in the results.  The paper floats off the  board along 
>with most of the traces.  The circuit I'm trying to produce is  an LM317 
>voltage regulator with about a dozen components.  Suggestions  would be most 
>appreciated.

If it floats off, then either insufficient heat or dirty boards.

The printer setups look right, I'll assume the proper toner.

Tip #1:

To avoid wasting expensive paper:  Print a board outline (center all,
1x), details do not matter, but have the dimension on the printout.

Tape a small piece (covers board + 1/2 inch) of pulsar paper to the
paper over the layout.  Extend the board outline (pencil is ok) to
center the board.  Saves lots of paper.

Tip #2: just about the first trip through the laminator (which ought
to be to proper temperature), the paper ought to stick to the board at
least partially.  If it doesn't, then your laminator may not be hot
enough.  If it has adjustable settings, set it to the highest (foil).
I do 8 passes for paper on .030 board.  I also (not needed perhaps),
turn the board over so that the lower roller gets to heat the paper
directly half the time.

Tip #3:  Clean the boards with comet/bonami, sand lightly with 1000 or
1200 grit wet/dry paper.  Wear gloves.  Degrease with acetone (your
choice).  This gets all the debris off.  Handle with gloves only to
avoid oil on the board.

Hope this helps.

Harvey

> 
>Bill
>
>
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I use the same setup that you have been trying, however I don't recall the printer settings. When I fist started out with this setup I also had problems with the toner not sticking to the board. What I found was that after I steelwooled the board it needed to be cleaned with a lint free paper towel using acetone, until you don't see any transfer on the paper towel. 
Hope this works for you - I know I was getting pretty frustrated before I found this, since then I haven't had any problems with toner lifting.
One other thing, make sure you are letting the paper soak in the water long enough. Usually it will float off the board on its own. Or I wait about 5 minutes, just to make sure.
Good luck.

Hey Bill,

I too am just starting with this method. My first board came out pretty good. The second not so good, like yours it sounds. On my third try, I washed the board more thouroughly with green scotchbrite type material (attached to sponge found at 1$ store) and Dawn dish soap. Scrubbed lightly till the soap looked dirty and copper shiny. Rinsed with water and dried with paper towel. Then scrubbed with paper towel soaked with Acetone. I think the Acetone may be key here since it a solvent to the Toner. If there are traces of Acetone vapor when you lay down the pulsar paper you will feel the toner almost instantly start to stick.
Make sure your laminator is at its hottest and run for at least 15-30 minutes (while preping the copper clad). Might seem excessive, but at least you'll know it is up to temp. As soon as you lay the transfer paper down shove that puppy through the laminator. On that 3rd transfer attempt, I only pushed it through the lam 2 times. It all stuck except a small piece of the corner (fixed with a little packing tape) which I believe I just did not get clean enough.


1)Pep: preheat Laminator, set supplies out
2)Wear gloves (rubber, latex, Nitrile)
3)Clean copperclad w/ scotchbrite and dish soap until shiny
4)Rise and dry
5)Rub w/ Acetone
6)Tape printed TTP to board
7)Laminate (preheated minimum 20 min)

Your now ready to etch!

Have fun

Rick H.
PS. An alternate to dishsoap and water may be household copper cleaner found at hardware or grocery stores. I just bought some so will have to report back later if it works any better or not.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mellow_dog" <mellow_dog@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Bill,
> 
> I too am just starting with this method. My first board came out pretty good. The second not so good, like yours it sounds. On my third try, I washed the board more thouroughly with green scotchbrite type material (attached to sponge found at 1$ store) and Dawn dish soap. Scrubbed lightly till the soap looked dirty and copper shiny. Rinsed with water and dried with paper towel. Then scrubbed with paper towel soaked with Acetone. I think the Acetone may be key here since it a solvent to the Toner. If there are traces of Acetone vapor when you lay down the pulsar paper you will feel the toner almost instantly start to stick.
> Make sure your laminator is at its hottest and run for at least 15-30 minutes (while preping the copper clad). Might seem excessive, but at least you'll know it is up to temp. As soon as you lay the transfer paper down shove that puppy through the laminator. On that 3rd transfer attempt, I only pushed it through the lam 2 times. It all stuck except a small piece of the corner (fixed with a little packing tape) which I believe I just did not get clean enough.
> 
> 
> 1)Pep: preheat Laminator, set supplies out
> 2)Wear gloves (rubber, latex, Nitrile)
> 3)Clean copperclad w/ scotchbrite and dish soap until shiny
> 4)Rise and dry
> 5)Rub w/ Acetone
> 6)Tape printed TTP to board
> 7)Laminate (preheated minimum 20 min)
> 
> Your now ready to etch!
> 
> Have fun
> 
> Rick H.
> PS. An alternate to dishsoap and water may be household copper cleaner found at hardware or grocery stores. I just bought some so will have to report back later if it works any better or not.
>

Forgot to mention, I started with an HP P1006 Laserjet. But it is not fine enough @ true 600x600 dpi. So I bought a used Dell 1710n that does much finer lines and curves. I am considering trying to convert it to run the copper clad (1/32") straight through. If this works, then no more TTP, and no more laminator (except for the green TRF).

Wish me luck...

Rick H.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my "PCB Troubles".  I found that  the 
laminator I am using needs to be modified by swapping the drive and roller  
gears.  Also I believe I need to clean the boards better.  I had not  been 
using acetone as a final cleaning prior to laminating.  Long ago when  I was 
using the photo negative method I didn't notice the boards needing to be  so 
clean.  Again thanks to everyone for their valuable  suggestions.
 
Bill  



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I use this method extensively and have had very good luck even to printing lines and spacings less than 10 mils.  The secret is clean clean clean the board..   If you didnt get it the first time let me reitterate it.. clean the board.

The way to do this is ..

1st - use a very fine scotch brite with dish soap and scour the board until it is bright and shiny.  
2nd- rinse the board with water and wipe with with MEK 
3rd- use the scotch brite again and scrub the board a second time.
4th- rinse the board with water again then submerge in the board good ol' isopropal alcohol.  

Do not touch the board with your fingers use gloves (make sure the latex gloves have been washed with water and dried before you touch the board remember some gloves have powder on them) 

I use the laminator that I bought from PULSAR.  It works great.. ohhh before I forget it.. dump the HP1000 series printer and get a later printer.. the older printers dont work correctly.

J

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, william474@... wrote:

>
> I am trying to make PC boards using the laser printer/laminator  technique. 
>  I am using an HP P1102w laser printer, GBC H220 laminator and  Pulsar 
> paper.  So far I have used a couple of sheets of paper with nothing  to show for 
> it except a dish full of floating traces.  Has anyone else used  this 
> method?  I have the printer set at density 5 (max) and heavy paper  (for the 
> Pulsar paper).  I have run the boards through the laminator from 2  to 5 times 
> with little change in the results.  The paper floats off the  board along 
> with most of the traces.  The circuit I'm trying to produce is  an LM317 
> voltage regulator with about a dozen components.  Suggestions  would be most 
> appreciated.
>  
> Bill
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>