Homebrew PCBs

>
> I'm back for a second round. This time I changed tacks - I have turned the $270 CNC paper cutter into a 2.1D mill for mil-etching PCBs - instead of the original drag-knife method. See video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDRN1_i0vJU and some updated info here http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/papercutterpcbs/
> 
> I haven't calibrated the setup yet like ipm, position tolerance and repeatability and minimum isolation track width & repeatability but that will come. The original method I was trying to perfect was to drag a carbide knife through copper cladding to affect electrical isolation but the swarf remaining was a problem.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>I'm back for a second round. This time I changed tacks - I have 
>turned the $270 CNC paper cutter into a 2.1D mill for mil-etching 
>PCBs - instead of the original drag-knife method. See video here 
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDRN1_i0vJU and some updated info 
>here http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/papercutterpcbs/
>
>I haven't calibrated the setup yet like ipm, position tolerance and 
>repeatability and minimum isolation track width & repeatability but 
>that will come. The original method I was trying to perfect was to 
>drag a carbide knife through copper cladding to affect electrical 
>isolation but the swarf remaining was a problem.
>
>Mike
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

>
> Amazing idea using a Dremel.
> 
> btw, does anybody know which is the pictured Dremel model ?
> 
> That will help to understand  works that can be done with it
> 
> Mine is far thicker and heavier to be supported by a small cutter
> 
> 
> Hint or comments about the drilling  part are highly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Samuel
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________
> 
> 
> Re: More on - Produce Quick & Cheap PCBs with a CNC paper cutter
> 
> Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:48 am (PDT) . Posted by:
> "Mark Lerman" mark_from_pomona
> 
> You've inspired me - I just ordered a Sillhoute Cameo! 
> 
> I have a few
> other ideas on how to use it and will post the results!
> 
> Mark
> 
> At 12:39 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote:
> 
> 
> >I'm back for a second round. This time I changed tacks - I have
> >turned the $270 CNC paper cutter into a 2.1D mill for mil-etching
> >PCBs - instead of the original drag-knife method. See video here
> >http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rDRN1_i0vJU and some updated info
> >here http://research. microsoft. com/en-us/ projects/ papercutterpcbs/
> >
> >I haven't calibrated the setup yet like ipm, position tolerance and
> >repeatability and minimum isolation track width & repeatability but
> >that will come. The original method I was trying to perfect was to
> >drag a carbide knife through copper cladding to affect electrical
> >isolation but the swarf remaining was a problem.
> >
> >Mike
> ________________________
>

>I think he's using a flexible shaft extension like this:
>
>http://www.dremel.com/en-us/attachments/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=225-01
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, teknochaman <teknochaman@...> wrote:
> >
> > Amazing idea using a Dremel.
> >
> > btw, does anybody know which is the pictured Dremel model ?
> >
> > That will help to understand  works that can be done with it
> >
> > Mine is far thicker and heavier to be supported by a small cutter
> >
> >
> > Hint or comments about the drilling  part are highly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Samuel
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > Re: More on - Produce Quick & Cheap PCBs with a CNC paper cutter
> >
> > Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:48 am (PDT) . Posted by:
> > "Mark Lerman" mark_from_pomona
> >
> > You've inspired me - I just ordered a Sillhoute Cameo!
> >
> > I have a few
> > other ideas on how to use it and will post the results!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > At 12:39 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I'm back for a second round. This time I changed tacks - I have
> > >turned the $270 CNC paper cutter into a 2.1D mill for mil-etching
> > >PCBs - instead of the original drag-knife method. See video here
> > >http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rDRN1_i0vJU and some updated info
> > >here http://research. microsoft. com/en-us/ projects/ papercutterpcbs/
> > >
> > >I haven't calibrated the setup yet like ipm, position tolerance and
> > >repeatability and minimum isolation track width & repeatability but
> > >that will come. The original method I was trying to perfect was to
> > >drag a carbide knife through copper cladding to affect electrical
> > >isolation but the swarf remaining was a problem.
> > >
> > >Mike
> > ________________________
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

>Yes, I did use a Dremel extension but the one that Dremel supplies 
>in some kits and you can buy separately is too stiff and is a fairly 
>significant load on the machine by itself though the handpiece 
>bearings may be better for low runout. Please see my website I 
>posted above. There's a list of parts I'm using. My Dremel tool is 
>Model 4000 but many of the others should work (but probably not the 
>battery operated one). With the extension attached, I get about 30K rpm.
>
>Yes, dust could be a problem The flexible hand-piece holder coupler 
>I had to make has a plastic "nose" that rides against and 
>pneumatically seals to the copperclad. I am experimenting with 
>evacuating this coupler with a flexible hose for removing the dust.
>
>The weight of the Dremel tool itself isn't relevant here as the 
>flexible extension minimizes this. I also use a spring to neutralize 
>the extra weight of the hand-piece. See the video. I will also 
>update my website soon.  I am working on 
>acceptable_degrees_of_success  (my call) for
>
>
>1.      Making of the hand-piece coupler a relatively easy to 
>accomplish task. (I had to use a lathe for the 1st version :()
>
>2.      Registering the top and bottom images for double sided PCBs 
>(almost there)
>
>3.      Being able to cut out the PCB and large routing outlines. 
>(not started)
>
>4.      Labeling the parts on the PCB (almost there)
>
>5.      Dust collection (in process)
>
>6.      Document minimum repeatable trace & line widths. (not started)
>
>7.      Work out a few small "kinks" in the Silhouette Cameo 
>software with the GREAT support team there.
>
>8.      Converting the Excellon drill file to a Silhouette readable 
>code. (not started).
>
>9.      Use the normal drag-knife in the cutter to produce stencils 
>for solder paste, NAMES, solder mask, etc. (not started)
>
>Note - the Silhouette Cameo does not read G-code so a Drill file to 
>G-code to ? may be a difficult route. The Pro version of Silhouette 
>Studio does accept .svg vector files. Using the Silhouette's 
>software, you cannot specify with in-line code, the spindle speed, 
>rapid speed, feed (speed) or vector order. You can globally specify 
>feed rate and rapid rate. Given these constraints, I've still 
>managed to produce some very usable PCBs using my fairly quick and easy method.
>
>Just to understand, my overall goal was to produce a list of parts 
>that require no modifications (or VERY little), free software (today 
>it's EagleCAD and what comes with the Silhouette), no programming 
>knowledge and an easy to follow recipe to produce a usable PCB.
>
>Thanks for your interest.
>
>Mike
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

>I think he's using a flexible shaft extension like this:
>
>http://www.dremel. com/en-us/ attachments/ Pages/ProductDet ail.aspx? pid=225-01
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, teknochaman <teknochaman@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Amazing idea using a Dremel.
> >
> > btw, does anybody know which is the pictured Dremel model ?
> >
> > That will help to understand  works that can be done with it
> >
> > Mine is far thicker and heavier to be supported by a small cutter
> >
> >
> > Hint or comments about the drilling  part are highly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Samuel
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________
> >
> >
> > Re: More on - Produce Quick & Cheap PCBs with a CNC paper cutter
> >
> > Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:48 am (PDT) . Posted by:
> > "Mark Lerman" mark_from_pomona
> >
> > You've inspired me - I just ordered a Sillhoute Cameo!
> >
> > I have a few
> > other ideas on how to use it and will post the results!
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > At 12:39 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > >I'm back for a second round. This time I changed tacks - I have
> > >turned the $270 CNC paper cutter into a 2.1D mill for mil-etching
> > >PCBs - instead of the original drag-knife method. See video here
> > >http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rDRN1_i0vJU and some updated info
> > >here http://research. microsoft. com/en-us/ projects/ papercutterpcbs/
> > >
> > >I haven't calibrated the setup yet like ipm, position tolerance and
> > >repeatability and minimum isolation track width & repeatability but
> > >that will come. The original method I was trying to perfect was to
> > >drag a carbide knife through copper cladding to affect electrical
> > >isolation but the swarf remaining was a problem.
> > >
> > >Mike
> > ____________ _________ ___
> >
>

> Make-the-Cut is an easy-to-use and full featured vector cutter control
> program that works with Silhouette and many other brands, but no longer
> with Cricut due to lawsuits by Provocraft.

>I never understood this sort of behaviour.
>
>Surely the more software the product is supported by or can work 
>with, the more likely people will buy it because they know they can 
>use it with that software.
>
>Blocking 3rd party vendors out says to me "Don't buy our product, as 
>we won't let you do anything with it"
>
>
>
>--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, David Mitchell <gossiphog@...> wrote:
>
> > Make-the-Cut is an easy-to-use and full featured vector cutter control
> > program that works with Silhouette and many other brands, but no longer
> > with Cricut due to lawsuits by Provocraft.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

>AFAIK  gcode is programming code for CAD/CAM software to routing 
>holes in the drilling process
>
>Wondered if  bundle software come with  X/Y axis easy design , this 
>is vector-graphics enabled
>rather than "bitmapped" (points instead of lines)
>
>At first glance it would be an asset if an average user shouldn't be 
>involved with learning gcode
>programming  if the cutter comes with a visual oriented interface
>
>So design can be transparent to the
>user even without knowing the intricacies  of CAD/CAM software.
>
>Comments about Silhouette Studio software are welcome specially from 
>those already using it.
>
>btw, I have seen only the so called CriCut that seems having similar 
>concept to  Silhouette Cameo.
>
>How they can be compared ?
>
>Are these paper cutters suitable for an average electronic 
>hobbyist/diyer trying to do their own PCBs  at home with only a 
>cutter with X/Y blades and a Dremel flexible shaft ?
>
>
>TIA
>
>Samuel
>
>
>Re: More on - Produce Quick & Cheap PCBs with a CNC paper cutter
>Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:46 am        (PDT)        . Posted by:
>
>"Mark Lerman"         mark_from_pomona
>
>I would guess that there's a lot of runout on this, which does limit
>the minimum trace width. One thing I might try when my Sillhoute
>comes in is to use a laser to remove paint resist. You should also
>use some sort of vacuum system to suck up the fiberglass dust.
>
>If the machine is mechanically adequate for pcb milling,
>
>the next  step would be to convert it to use gcode like a standard cnc.
>
>
>This  should be relatively easy for someone "skilled in the art".
>
>Mark
>
>At 06:11 AM 9/12/2012, you wrote:
> >I think he's using a flexible shaft extension like this:
> >
> >http://www.dremel. com/en-us/ attachments/ Pages/ProductDet 
> ail.aspx? pid=225-01
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In Homebrew_PCBs@ yahoogroups. com, teknochaman <teknochaman@ 
> ...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Amazing idea using a Dremel.
> > >
> > > btw, does anybody know which is the pictured Dremel model ?
> > >
> > > That will help to understand  works that can be done with it
> > >
> > > Mine is far thicker and heavier to be supported by a small cutter
> > >
> > >
> > > Hint or comments about the drilling  part are highly appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Samuel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ________
> > >
> > >
> > > Re: More on - Produce Quick & Cheap PCBs with a CNC paper cutter
> > >
> > > Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:48 am (PDT) . Posted by:
> > > "Mark Lerman" mark_from_pomona
> > >
> > > You've inspired me - I just ordered a Sillhoute Cameo!
> > >
> > > I have a few
> > > other ideas on how to use it and will post the results!
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > At 12:39 PM 9/8/2012, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >I'm back for a second round. This time I changed tacks - I have
> > > >turned the $270 CNC paper cutter into a 2.1D mill for mil-etching
> > > >PCBs - instead of the original drag-knife method. See video here
> > > >http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=rDRN1_i0vJU and some updated info
> > > >here http://research. microsoft. com/en-us/ projects/ papercutterpcbs/
> > > >
> > > >I haven't calibrated the setup yet like ipm, position tolerance and
> > > >repeatability and minimum isolation track width & repeatability but
> > > >that will come. The original method I was trying to perfect was to
> > > >drag a carbide knife through copper cladding to affect electrical
> > > >isolation but the swarf remaining was a problem.
> > > >
> > > >Mike
> > > ____________ _________ ___
> > >
> >
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Links, Files, and Photos:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBsYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

From: sinclair@...
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 06:21:40 +0000
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: More on - Produce Quick & Cheap PCBs with a CNC paper cutter
















 



  


    
      
      
      Great comments everyone!



Good idea using 0-ohm chip resistors as bridges.



I believe this method can produce 10mill trace or spaces reliably. Now it's up to me to prove it :-)



Cutting copper foil w adhesive is also a good idea. I now that al lot of folks at the MIT MEDIA Lab use this method. You're limited In how a trace/space you can make and how well the copper sticks (or doesn't).



Cricut is  much cruder in how it moves though smilar. I have SureCutsALot, another hacked software that ProvoCraft went after. It does similar functionality thru the USB port and lets you cut sgv files. It has no drag-blade compensation though not many of the good vestor tools the Silhouette has.



A little more on the operation of the Silhouette:

It can't accept G-Code nor be controlled like a CNC machine can in real-time. Once you have the vector file produced or loaded, it cuts on its own. I import a high resolution .bmp image of the Top and Bottom traces, vias and pads. It has an excellent tracing program that produces near-perfect vector objects. I let the machine move the 30Krpm spinning carbide etching tip on its own rather than try to control it intimately from the USB port as a G-Code CNC controlled mill would do. It keeps the tangential speed constant and also the rapids.



The holes are drilled with a hack. The Z-xis is ust  solenoid with a spring return. I needed to fool the machine to keep it's "blade" down long enough to drill through the PCB. I generated a multiturn spiral vector image reduced  to .001"x.001" that I place at each desired hole location. The XY stepper motors don't respond to this small movement...but takes time to try so it works fine. I also discovered a way of aligning the top and bottom for 2-sided PCBs.



I'm still close to my altruistic goal - to make this a low effort project for the user......so good....so far :-) Keep the great comments coming.



Mike



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






    
     

    
    






  






 		 	   		  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]