Homebrew PCBs

Can't say I understand why hot transfer gave u registration probs unless 
you did separate passes for each side.
I hot transfer both sides at once so there are no registration issues.

I still prefer hot transfer since I can do foiled silk screens etc and 
it is faster. Also no fumes to speak of.

Then again I have the single pass Apache AL13P PCB laminator to do a 
transfer in one go so there are less steps to do it.

Print, place on PCB...one pass transfer - including double sided (corner 
pinhole alignment with vias) or toner silk screen on one side ..all in 
one pass.
No volatile chemicals really. Just an isopropyl wipe on the PCB before 
transfer.

Ancel

On 31 Jan 2016 05:46:34 -0800, you wrote:

>Probably due to the unmodified laminator I used.  I had to run the board through 5 or 6 times to get good transfer to the board.  Even with rotating the board between passes, I usually had holes on end shifted over about a half pad or more. I also had to run the board through 3 times to preheat before applying the transfer pattern. Total time involved is about the same as when I used the laminator.  Also I had to use a genuine Brother cartridge, could not get good transfer with generic cartridges.  With the cold method I have not had any problems with either type.

Brother has been known to have higher temperature melting point
toners.  This could be a difficulty.  Cold method bypasses that, of
course.  If you go to the hot method, you might experiment with a
transfer from another kind of laser printer.

Harvey


>DuWayne

Harvey,
Why would you even bother to try hot transfer when you master the cold transfer?

To me, what Duwayne has accomplished is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT. I will not even consider
trying hot transfer ever again.


Just my $0.02,
Jean-Paul
N1JPL

PS: I have been doing PCB for almost 50 years, and Duwayne’s process is by
far the best for DIY.

> On Jan 31, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Harvey White madyn@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> On 31 Jan 2016 05:46:34 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Probably due to the unmodified laminator I used. I had to run the board through 5 or 6 times to get good transfer to the board. Even with rotating the board between passes, I usually had holes on end shifted over about a half pad or more. I also had to run the board through 3 times to preheat before applying the transfer pattern. Total time involved is about the same as when I used the laminator. Also I had to use a genuine Brother cartridge, could not get good transfer with generic cartridges. With the cold method I have not had any problems with either type.
> 
> Brother has been known to have higher temperature melting point
> toners. This could be a difficulty. Cold method bypasses that, of
> course. If you go to the hot method, you might experiment with a
> transfer from another kind of laser printer.
> 
> Harvey
> 
> >DuWayne
> 
> 
>

I guess it's what ever works for you. I can't get the cold method to work at all and I have a headache by the time I'm done trying, these chemicals are not good to breath. For me it's so much easier to print, laminate, peel off the paper and etch. I get a 100% aligned board every time and 100% toner transfer. 

I'm happy the cold method works for you but it's not for everyone, for me the hot method works the best. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 31, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Jean-Paul Louis louijp@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Harvey,
> Why would you even bother to try hot transfer when you master the cold transfer?
> 
> To me, what Duwayne has accomplished is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT. I will not even consider
> trying hot transfer ever again.
> 
> Just my $0.02,
> Jean-Paul
> N1JPL
> 
> PS: I have been doing PCB for almost 50 years, and Duwayne’s process is by
> far the best for DIY.
> 
> > On Jan 31, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Harvey White madyn@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > 
> > On 31 Jan 2016 05:46:34 -0800, you wrote:
> > 
> > >Probably due to the unmodified laminator I used. I had to run the board through 5 or 6 times to get good transfer to the board. Even with rotating the board between passes, I usually had holes on end shifted over about a half pad or more. I also had to run the board through 3 times to preheat before applying the transfer pattern. Total time involved is about the same as when I used the laminator. Also I had to use a genuine Brother cartridge, could not get good transfer with generic cartridges. With the cold method I have not had any problems with either type.
> > 
> > Brother has been known to have higher temperature melting point
> > toners. This could be a difficulty. Cold method bypasses that, of
> > course. If you go to the hot method, you might experiment with a
> > transfer from another kind of laser printer.
> > 
> > Harvey
> > 
> > >DuWayne
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 12:19:13 -0500, you wrote:

>Harvey,
>Why would you even bother to try hot transfer when you master the cold transfer?
>
>To me, what Duwayne has accomplished is a HUGE IMPROVEMENT. I will not even consider
>trying hot transfer ever again.

I may try cold transfer one of these days, but I prefer to minimize my
exposure to the chemicals.  I can do a decent 10/10 with hot transfer.
Registration (since I do each side separately) is not a problem since
I can drill the alignment holes quite precisely.

I split my work between doublesided boards done commercially (because
I've not got the room nor inclination to try plated through holes, and
some boards I do need 6/6) and ones/twos of homemade doublesided
boards.  

Harvey

>
>
>Just my $0.02,
>Jean-Paul
>N1JPL
>
>PS: I have been doing PCB for almost 50 years, and Duwayne\ufffds process is by
>far the best for DIY.
>
>
>
>> On Jan 31, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Harvey White madyn@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 31 Jan 2016 05:46:34 -0800, you wrote:
>> 
>> >Probably due to the unmodified laminator I used. I had to run the board through 5 or 6 times to get good transfer to the board. Even with rotating the board between passes, I usually had holes on end shifted over about a half pad or more. I also had to run the board through 3 times to preheat before applying the transfer pattern. Total time involved is about the same as when I used the laminator. Also I had to use a genuine Brother cartridge, could not get good transfer with generic cartridges. With the cold method I have not had any problems with either type.
>> 
>> Brother has been known to have higher temperature melting point
>> toners. This could be a difficulty. Cold method bypasses that, of
>> course. If you go to the hot method, you might experiment with a
>> transfer from another kind of laser printer.
>> 
>> Harvey
>> 
>> >DuWayne
>> 
>> 
>>

I think the main reason folks want to find an alternative method is that some laser printers, such as Brother, seem to not work well for the laminator method. I have never been able to get the toner to completely transfer from my Brother 1440 HL. Some or most of the toner remains on the transfer paper, and I have tried many types of paper and techniques. It appears the toner melts at a higher temperature or something.
Bob 

    On Sunday, January 31, 2016 2:53 AM, "AncelB mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs]" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

     Can't say I understand why hot transfer gave u registration probs unless 
you did separate passes for each side.
I hot transfer both sides at once so there are no registration issues.

I still prefer hot transfer since I can do foiled silk screens etc and 
it is faster. Also no fumes to speak of.

Then again I have the single pass Apache AL13P PCB laminator to do a 
transfer in one go so there are less steps to do it.

Print, place on PCB...one pass transfer - including double sided (corner 
pinhole alignment with vias) or toner silk screen on one side ..all in 
one pass.
No volatile chemicals really. Just an isopropyl wipe on the PCB before 
transfer.

Ancel

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 13:49:20 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

>I think the main reason folks want to find an alternative method is that some laser printers, such as Brother, seem to not work well for the laminator method. I have never been able to get the toner to completely transfer from my Brother 1440 HL. Some or most of the toner remains on the transfer paper, and I have tried many types of paper and techniques. It appears the toner melts at a higher temperature or something.

Previous postings about Brother Laser printers have indicated that the
toner melts at a higher temperature.  This seems to be more than the
average laminator can do.  From what I've seen so far, only Brother
laser toner has this particular problem.

If you wish to try other toners, you might consider asking the local
copy place, who might have something other than Brother.  

Since the cold method does not care about the melting temperature of
the toner, Brother should be no better and no worse than any other
laser toner.

YMMV, of course.

Harvey



>Bob 
>