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2016-12-20 by mosaicmerc@...
Hi all:
I believe an auto shutdown of the laminator's (Apache/Trulam) heater is of safety value to the user. In such a case if a laminator is left unattended (no mode switching for the mod.) It will auto cool (power off) the heaters after a certain time, leaving the temperature set point unchanged.
I am thinking about 30 minutes of operation should be a reasonable time. Would any other members have thoughts on this?
2016-12-20 by Rob
Sure....... hack an appliance to run hotter than its intended design parameters..... then walk away. I melted one plastic gear at 390 degrees in less than 10 minutes. What would have happened if I left that 390 degree heat continue its dissipation into more parts? It doesn't matter if it shuts off in 30 minutes if your fire starts in 15 minutes. You ARE playing with heaters in a plastic case relying on electronics you hacked. When you burn down your house .... free to explain to your insurance company how this is their bill to pay after voiding the laminator warranty by opening it and adding features to make it run hotter....hot enough to melt plastic... deform structures..that holds AC electricity in heaters. DON't walk away. I went a totally different route. Throw away all the plastic parts. http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/al9.html Remove the metal rollers and heaters completely from the plastic shell and mount them in metal brackets and a metal box. Nothing heavy metal....just construction steel studs thin gauge metal. Pretty much end up with a metal toaster with rollers. I don't have it running yet because I lack metal gears. I'll get to metal gears some day.
On 12/20/2016 12:59 PM, mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > Hi all: > > I believe an auto shutdown of the laminator's (Apache/Trulam) heater > is of safety value to the user. In such a case if a laminator is left > unattended (no mode switching for the mod.) It will auto cool (power > off) the heaters after a certain time, leaving the temperature set > point unchanged. > > > I am thinking about 30 minutes of operation should be a reasonable > time. Would any other members have thoughts on this? > > >
2016-12-20 by Jean-Paul Louis
Rob, By someday, do you mean this century? LOL I know the feeling, I have too many unfinished projects that I will finish someday too. One of them is a temperature controlled toaster oven to reflow SMT. I have the degutted toaster oven laying around, I have the SSR relays also I just need to install the thermocouples and the Microcontroller. Someday, I will finish it too. Meanwhile, I am getting ready to fly to my son’s home for the holidays. Merry Christmas to the whole group. Jean-Paul N1JPL
> On Dec 20, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Sure....... > hack an appliance to run hotter than its intended design parameters..... then walk away. > I melted one plastic gear at 390 degrees in less than 10 minutes. > What would have happened if I left that 390 degree heat continue its dissipation into more parts? > > > It doesn't matter if it shuts off in 30 minutes if your fire starts in 15 minutes. > You ARE playing with heaters in a plastic case relying on electronics you hacked. > When you burn down your house .... free to explain to your insurance company how this is their bill to pay after voiding the laminator warranty by opening it and adding features to make it run hotter....hot enough to melt plastic... deform structures..that holds AC electricity in heaters. > > DON't walk away. > > I went a totally different route. Throw away all the plastic parts. > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/al9.html > > Remove the metal rollers and heaters completely from the plastic shell and mount them > in metal brackets and a metal box. > > Nothing heavy metal....just construction steel studs thin gauge metal. > Pretty much end up with a metal toaster with rollers. > I don't have it running yet because I lack metal gears. > I'll get to metal gears some day. > > > > > On 12/20/2016 12:59 PM, mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: >> >> Hi all: >> >> I believe an auto shutdown of the laminator's (Apache/Trulam) heater is of safety value to the user. In such a case if a laminator is left unattended (no mode switching for the mod.) It will auto cool (power off) the heaters after a certain time, leaving the temperature set point unchanged. >> >> >> >> I am thinking about 30 minutes of operation should be a reasonable time. Would any other members have thoughts on this? >> >> >> > > >
2016-12-20 by Jean-Paul Louis
Rob, By someday, do you mean this century? LOL I know the feeling, I have too many unfinished projects that I will finish someday too. One of them is a temperature controlled toaster oven to reflow SMT. I have the degutted toaster oven laying around, I have the SSR relays also I just need to install the thermocouples and the Microcontroller. Someday, I will finish it too. Meanwhile, I am getting ready to fly to my son’s home for the holidays. Merry Christmas to the whole group. Jean-Paul N1JPL
> On Dec 20, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote: > > Sure....... > hack an appliance to run hotter than its intended design parameters..... then walk away. > I melted one plastic gear at 390 degrees in less than 10 minutes. > What would have happened if I left that 390 degree heat continue its dissipation into more parts? > > > It doesn't matter if it shuts off in 30 minutes if your fire starts in 15 minutes. > You ARE playing with heaters in a plastic case relying on electronics you hacked. > When you burn down your house .... free to explain to your insurance company how this is their bill to pay after voiding the laminator warranty by opening it and adding features to make it run hotter....hot enough to melt plastic... deform structures..that holds AC electricity in heaters. > > DON't walk away. > > I went a totally different route. Throw away all the plastic parts. > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/al9.html > > Remove the metal rollers and heaters completely from the plastic shell and mount them > in metal brackets and a metal box. > > Nothing heavy metal....just construction steel studs thin gauge metal. > Pretty much end up with a metal toaster with rollers. > I don't have it running yet because I lack metal gears. > I'll get to metal gears some day. > > > > > On 12/20/2016 12:59 PM, mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: >> >> Hi all: >> >> I believe an auto shutdown of the laminator's (Apache/Trulam) heater is of safety value to the user. In such a case if a laminator is left unattended (no mode switching for the mod.) It will auto cool (power off) the heaters after a certain time, leaving the temperature set point unchanged. >> >> >> >> I am thinking about 30 minutes of operation should be a reasonable time. Would any other members have thoughts on this? >> >> >> > > >
2016-12-21 by Harvey Altstadter
Rob, Since the recent posts on gears, I have been nosing around ebay looking for metal gears. I found two sellers that have gears that fit a wide variety of shaft sizes, and have a variety of tooth counts: 1- speed_mart http://stores.ebay.com/speed-mart?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 2- fivefive.co.ltd http://stores.ebay.com/fivefive-co-ltd?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 There are other sellers, but they don't seem to have a wide variety of gears, and, for the most part, duplicate the ones carried by these two sources. I found them by searching for metal gears. IF you know your shaft size(s), you can search for metal gears xxmm. That will narrow the results to just those that you could use. I am investigating a set of gears that look to be a fit for the Harbor Freight laminator. That laminator has flatted shafts. These gears are for round shafts, but have collars with set screws. I will report back when I have determined whether these gears look good for that application. Harvey
On 12/20/2016 12:08 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > Sure....... > hack an appliance to run hotter than its intended design > parameters..... then walk away. > I melted one plastic gear at 390 degrees in less than 10 minutes. > What would have happened if I left that 390 degree heat continue its > dissipation into more parts? > > > It doesn't matter if it shuts off in 30 minutes if your fire starts in > 15 minutes. > You ARE playing with heaters in a plastic case relying on electronics > you hacked. > When you burn down your house .... free to explain to your insurance > company how this is their bill to pay after voiding the laminator > warranty by opening it and adding features to make it run > hotter....hot enough to melt plastic... deform structures..that holds > AC electricity in heaters. > > DON't walk away. > > I went a totally different route. Throw away all the plastic parts. > http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/al9.html > > Remove the metal rollers and heaters completely from the plastic shell > and mount them > in metal brackets and a metal box. > > Nothing heavy metal....just construction steel studs thin gauge metal. > Pretty much end up with a metal toaster with rollers. > I don't have it running yet because I lack metal gears. > I'll get to metal gears some day. > > > > On 12/20/2016 12:59 PM, mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: >> >> Hi all: >> >> I believe an auto shutdown of the laminator's (Apache/Trulam) heater >> is of safety value to the user. In such a case if a laminator is left >> unattended (no mode switching for the mod.) It will auto cool (power >> off) the heaters after a certain time, leaving the temperature set >> point unchanged. >> >> >> I am thinking about 30 minutes of operation should be a reasonable >> time. Would any other members have thoughts on this? >> >> > >
2016-12-21 by mosaicmerc@...
2016-12-21 by Rob
TrulamTL320B run stock to 390F Well thats good to know... thank you... I did not know that. I guess you get what you pay for..... AMAZON $100 http://www.laminationdepot.com/Shop/Photo-Pouch-Laminators/ for $150 Either way...metal...silicone rollers..... stock 390F....... the second you open one up you void the warranty and the HACK being discussed is about roller speed so it doesn't make much difference to me..... don't walk away from any heat appliance you hack.
On 12/20/2016 09:42 PM, mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > Rob, the Apache AL13P & TrulamTL320B don't run on hacked heaters. > They run stock to 390F and are all metal with silicone rollers. > > I don't hack laminators' to run over temp...that's a dangerous practice. > >
2016-12-21 by Rob
DOES TrulamTL320B run stock to 390F ..... tag says 360F http://www.laminationdepot.com/TruLam-Pouch-Laminator-LED-Screen.jpg
On 12/20/2016 10:14 PM, Rob roomberg@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > TrulamTL320B run stock to 390F > Well thats good to know... thank you... I did not know that. > I guess you get what you pay for..... > AMAZON $100 > http://www.laminationdepot.com/Shop/Photo-Pouch-Laminators/ > for $150 > > Either way...metal...silicone rollers..... stock 390F....... > the second you open one up you void the warranty and the HACK being > discussed is about roller speed > so it doesn't make much difference to me..... don't walk away from any > heat appliance you hack. > > > > > > On 12/20/2016 09:42 PM, mosaicmerc@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: >> >> Rob, the Apache AL13P & TrulamTL320B don't run on hacked heaters. >> They run stock to 390F and are all metal with silicone rollers. >> >> I don't hack laminators' to run over temp...that's a dangerous practice. >> > >
2016-12-21 by mosaicmerc@...
2016-12-21 by Cristian
At 04:33 AM 21-12-16, you wrote: > > >Rob, > >Since the recent posts on gears, I have been nosing around ebay >looking for metal gears. Why not isolate the plastic gear in a tin box and ventilate it with a small fan? Cristian
2016-12-21 by kbyrne10@...
2016-12-21 by KeepIt SimpleStupid
Hopefully your looking at this as an "inactivity timer" and not a timer from power-on?
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 10:27 AM, "kbyrne10@yahoo.com [Homebrew_PCBs]" <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I have a TL902 Thermal laminator with a brand name Scotch and a question along the line of thought if I may. What is the proper way to determine the temps it runs at as all the manual says is two temps one 3mil thin stock,second 5mil thicker stock? I have a MASIONE Infrared Thermometer (58 degrees to 716 degrees F). Will that be accurate when dot is ob board as soon as it can be seen coming out of lam? I am trying to figure out toner transfer and green trf transfer temps out for size before I buy a Apache ect. #yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601 -- #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp #yiv1331578601hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp #yiv1331578601ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp .yiv1331578601ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp .yiv1331578601ad p {margin:0;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-mkp .yiv1331578601ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-sponsor #yiv1331578601ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv1331578601 #yiv1331578601ygrp-sponsor #yiv1331578601ygrp-lc #yiv1331578601hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv1331578601 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Cristian,
The gears are the same shaft as the roller that is being heated
by the heater. The gears are heated by both radiation and
conduction. Providing a heat shield would cut down on radiated
heat, but the main source is conduction. I suppose that the
mechanics could be changed to extend the shafts with thermally
insulating material. That would place the motor/gear mechanism
outside the case. I am not sure I could identify a thermally
insulating material that would be stiff enough at that temperature
to give the required operation. Metal gears would be much simpler.
Harvey
\ufffdAt 04:33 AM 21-12-16, you wrote:
>
>
>Rob,
>
>Since the recent posts on gears, I have been nosing around ebay
>looking for metal gears.
Why not isolate the plastic gear in a tin box and ventilate it with a
small fan?
Cristian
2016-12-21 by Harvey Altstadter
When I was doing my gear melting experiments, I used a small bead type thermocouple in contact with one of the rollers. I placed it near the end of the roller so that it wouldn't mar the contact areas. I wedged it in so that it's own springiness would hold it in place against the roller. This was good enough for my experiments, but for permanence, I would have had to find a better way. It gave reasonably repeatable readings. BTW- My thermal controller worked great at 200C. Cannot say the same for the gears:-) Harvey
On 12/21/2016 8:26 AM, kbyrne10@... [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote: > > I have a TL902 Thermal laminator with a brand name Scotch and a > question along the line of thought if I may. What is the proper way to > determine the temps it runs at as all the manual says is two temps one > 3mil thin stock,second 5mil thicker stock? I have a MASIONE Infrared > Thermometer (58 degrees to 716 degrees F). Will that be accurate when > dot is ob board as soon as it can be seen coming out of lam? I am > trying to figure out toner transfer and green trf transfer temps out > for size before I buy a Apache ect. > >
2016-12-22 by AncelB
I've been thinking about the inactivity approach which can permit a tighter time control on the heaters = power savings & safety enhancement. Some testing showed that when running a cool PCB thru the laminator the sensor temperature dips by a few degrees before the temp. control recovers as the PCB comes up to temp. The current iteration of the mod, does monitor the temp sensor from a good/bad POV based on its outputs. I can reflash my mod. PIC to track this and do the following: 1) Once the temperature has achieved steady state, issue a single chirp every 30 seconds or so to alert the user. 2) If the steady state is unchanged for more than 15 minutes it indicates no activity and enables the heater shutdown/cooldown 3) If the temperature exceeds the max. setpoint of the laminator....also execute a heater shutdown.
2016-12-22 by AncelB
Once I get in the teflon flats I should be able to generate simple, hi temp, spur gears once I have the gear & shaft diameter and teeth counts required. If the shaft is not D shaped and requires a set screw it gets more complicated. In such a case I'd propose a drill/tap set screw on the shaft and notching the gear to slot onto that. What might be useful is I could re engineer the gear ratios to slow down the laminator to better suit the purpose.
2016-12-25 by mosaicmerc@...
2016-12-26 by arvidj@...
2016-12-27 by mosaicmerc@...