Homebrew PCBs

Hi,

I know that there are many cheap and cheerful electronic design 
products out there as well as some very capable and expensive ones, 
but it has often seemed to me that the cheap software is often too 
cheap and not very useable whilst the capable software is often way 
too expensive for many professionals let alone enthusiasts and 
students.

As a result, I have been working on a product for a number of years 
that I hope will bridge the gap between these two extremes. It's 
nearly ready for mainstream release right now, well I believe it is, 
but I would really value input from people that have used these 
products before, such as members of this group.

Already this is a very capable and mature product and it has been 
successfully used to design and layout many single and multi-layer 
boards. You can download the beta from my website www.otl.co.uk 
right now and in return for your valuable input (as well as free use 
during the beta test program) I will offer a substantial discount 
when the software is finally released.

Kind Regards,
Simon Clark

> Already this is a very capable and mature product and it has been
> successfully used to design and layout many single and multi-layer
> boards. You can download the beta from my website www.otl.co.uk
> right now and in return for your valuable input (as well as free use
> during the beta test program) I will offer a substantial discount
> when the software is finally released.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Simon Clark

Hi Simon,

Most likely i will have a look.
But i would also like to know in which price range your product
will finally be.
there is no point in getting used to a software if i then can't have it
because i can never afford it.

ST

Stefan Trethan wrote:
>>Already this is a very capable and mature product and it has been
>>successfully used to design and layout many single and multi-layer
>>boards. You can download the beta from my website www.otl.co.uk
>>right now and in return for your valuable input (as well as free use
>>during the beta test program) I will offer a substantial discount
>>when the software is finally released.
>>
>>Kind Regards,
>>Simon Clark
> 
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> Most likely i will have a look.
> But i would also like to know in which price range your product
> will finally be.
> there is no point in getting used to a software if i then can't have it
> because i can never afford it.

Anything that's not open source is not yours whatever you pay. If the
vendor disappears, you're on borrowed time.

> Anything that's not open source is not yours whatever you pay. If the
> vendor disappears, you're on borrowed time.
>


Any open sorce pcb software out there?

ST

There is some stuff for linux, but I don't remember the name 'pcb' rings a
bell for some reason though.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Trethan [mailto:stefan_trethan@...] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:09 AM
> To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] New electronic design and layout software
> 
> 
> 
> > Anything that's not open source is not yours whatever you 
> pay. If the 
> > vendor disappears, you're on borrowed time.
> >
> 
> 
> Any open sorce pcb software out there?
> 
> ST
> 
> 
> Be sure to visit the group home and check for new Bookmarks 
> and files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
>

Check out the GEDA project.  
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Toft" > There is some 
stuff for linux, but I don't remember the name 'pcb' rings a

> bell for some reason though.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stefan Trethan 
> > Any open sorce pcb software out there?
> > 
> > ST

Here's a link:
http://www-mtl.mit.edu/~mcmahill/PCB/gEDA-PCB.html

It still doesn't look all that far along though...  Enough that some 
have been able to use it, but...
--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "wheedal99" 

> Check out the GEDA project.  
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Toft" 
> There is some 
> stuff for linux, but I don't remember the name 'pcb' rings a
> > bell for some reason though.
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stefan Trethan 
> > > Any open sorce pcb software out there?
> > > 
> > > ST

Stefan,

It will sell for £299+VAT less 33.3% discount to registered beta 
testers.

I hope this answers your question. Please let me know how you get on?

Regards,
Simon

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan 
<stefan_trethan@g...> wrote:
> 
> > Already this is a very capable and mature product and it has been
> > successfully used to design and layout many single and multi-
layer
> > boards. You can download the beta from my website www.otl.co.uk
> > right now and in return for your valuable input (as well as free 
use
> > during the beta test program) I will offer a substantial discount
> > when the software is finally released.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Simon Clark
> 
> Hi Simon,
> 
> Most likely i will have a look.
> But i would also like to know in which price range your product
> will finally be.
> there is no point in getting used to a software if i then can't 
have it

> because i can never afford it.
> 
> ST

On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 22:55:00 -0000, simonclark100 <simonclark@...> 
wrote:

> Stefan,
>
> It will sell for \ufffd299+VAT less 33.3% discount to registered beta
> testers.
>
> I hope this answers your question. Please let me know how you get on?
>
> Regards,
> Simon


Why is there a smiley after every headline on your page?
do you know that this is strange?

To be serious:
I'm downloading it but i really fear it will not be within my price range.
(i still have a student license for orcad,
it is damn old version and they give me no new and i will not
be student forever but it is good software after all)

setup working perfectly on xp pro German..

All in working order as it seems, today it's late,
When i have time i will try to make a board and tell you what i think
of it. I don't want to make you false hopes, this price is clearly out
of range for me, do you have student licenses? (You know, this is good for
promotion and such ;-) )

ST


Thanks also for the suggested free linux software, at the moment i have no 
linux
running but that may change again. It's also worth a try i would say....

Stefan Trethan wrote:
>>Anything that's not open source is not yours whatever you pay. If the
>>vendor disappears, you're on borrowed time.
>>
> Any open sorce pcb software out there?

"pcb" for linux. I haven't used it, because there's no matching
schematic editor i like.

The real issue for me is the availability of libraries though I agree 
that schematic capture/edit is a deal breaker.  I kind of just assume 
that any reasonable system will have a decent one.  I like eagle 
because there are a lot of libraries free for the using and the lib 
editor is reasonably capable (though cumbersome to use).

If I were trying to push a new system, I'd have a gazillion libraries 
out there to make it trivially easy to get going.  Also, I'd have a 
bunch of predefined symbols (packages, schematic symbols) that I 
could use to quickly add a new part.  There is nothing more 
discouraging than to start a design and discover that you need to 
create all sorts of new parts completely from scratch.  A 15 minute 
job becomes hours of tedium in looking up layouts and so on.

Actually, if it were me, I'd figure out to import other systems 
libraries.  heh heh....

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@n...> 
wrote:
> Stefan Trethan wrote:
> >>Anything that's not open source is not yours whatever you pay. If 
the

> >>vendor disappears, you're on borrowed time.
> >>
> > Any open sorce pcb software out there?
> 
> "pcb" for linux. I haven't used it, because there's no matching
> schematic editor i like.

I only partially agree.

Orcad comes with " a gazillion" of libraries.
i agree that the librarys defining the parts for schematic are
goot to have but the PCB footprints are nearly useless.

On the one hand there are so many you simply loose track, on the other
hand the padstacks and the outlines are often no good for homebrew pcbs.

I had to make a footprint for each part i use, and store it in my own libs.

Again, the component librarys are very important for schematic and well 
filled in orcad.
(Also the Pspice libs which come with it are very ok)

A good library editor for the footprints, and maybe a possibility to change
the pads "all of a kind" at once may be nice.

ST

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:39:07 -0000, Phil <phil1960us@...> wrote:

> The real issue for me is the availability of libraries though I agree
> that schematic capture/edit is a deal breaker.  I kind of just assume
> that any reasonable system will have a decent one.  I like eagle
> because there are a lot of libraries free for the using and the lib
> editor is reasonably capable (though cumbersome to use).
>
> If I were trying to push a new system, I'd have a gazillion libraries
> out there to make it trivially easy to get going.  Also, I'd have a
> bunch of predefined symbols (packages, schematic symbols) that I
> could use to quickly add a new part.  There is nothing more
> discouraging than to start a design and discover that you need to
> create all sorts of new parts completely from scratch.  A 15 minute
> job becomes hours of tedium in looking up layouts and so on.
>
> Actually, if it were me, I'd figure out to import other systems
> libraries.  heh heh....

A good solution is to go in and reverse engineer the libraries for the 
different existing programs.
Then write a program that converts between library types.
That does two things:
  1) Lets you convert all the public domain libraries you can find and 
ship them with your programs
  2) Lets you sell an add-on to companies that have proprietary 
libraries they use or sell.
  By the way, make your converter two way.  That way it is a real stand 
alone product that does not
require you to grow market share of a mature market with lots of 
preexisting, big name competitors
to make money.  You have two possible revenue streams that are not hard 
tied to each other.
RM

>Orcad comes with " a gazillion" of libraries.
>i agree that the librarys defining the parts for schematic are
>goot to have but the PCB footprints are nearly useless.
>
>  
>

Phil wrote:
> The real issue for me is the availability of libraries though I agree 
> that schematic capture/edit is a deal breaker.  I kind of just assume 
> that any reasonable system will have a decent one.  I like eagle 
> because there are a lot of libraries free for the using and the lib 
> editor is reasonably capable (though cumbersome to use).
> 
> If I were trying to push a new system, I'd have a gazillion libraries 
> out there to make it trivially easy to get going.  Also, I'd have a 
> bunch of predefined symbols (packages, schematic symbols) that I 
> could use to quickly add a new part.  There is nothing more 
> discouraging than to start a design and discover that you need to 
> create all sorts of new parts completely from scratch.  A 15 minute 
> job becomes hours of tedium in looking up layouts and so on.

Of high importance is the ease of creating new libraries and parts.
You should have your own library and only import a part into it
after checking and fixing it.

> Actually, if it were me, I'd figure out to import other systems 
> libraries.  heh heh....
> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, Russell Shaw <rjshaw@n...> 
> wrote:
> 
>>Stefan Trethan wrote:
>>
>>>>Anything that's not open source is not yours whatever you pay. If 
>>>>the vendor disappears, you're on borrowed time.
>>>>
>>>Any open sorce pcb software out there?
>>
>>"pcb" for linux. I haven't used it, because there's no matching
>>schematic editor i like.
>

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Phil" <phil1960us@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 5:39 PM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: New electronic design and layout software


> The real issue for me is the availability of libraries though I agree
> that schematic capture/edit is a deal breaker.  I kind of just assume
> that any reasonable system will have a decent one.  I like eagle
> because there are a lot of libraries free for the using and the lib
> editor is reasonably capable (though cumbersome to use).
>
> If I were trying to push a new system, I'd have a gazillion libraries
> out there to make it trivially easy to get going.  Also, I'd have a
> bunch of predefined symbols (packages, schematic symbols) that I
> could use to quickly add a new part.  There is nothing more
> discouraging than to start a design and discover that you need to
> create all sorts of new parts completely from scratch.  A 15 minute
> job becomes hours of tedium in looking up layouts and so on.
>
> Actually, if it were me, I'd figure out to import other systems
> libraries.  heh heh....

It can be quite risky using the supplied libraries without checking them
very thoroughly. Many PCB designers create their own parts to make sure they
are OK.

Leon

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Richard Mustakos" <rmustakos@...>
To: <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 1:35 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: New electronic design and layout software


> A good solution is to go in and reverse engineer the libraries for the
> different existing programs.
> Then write a program that converts between library types.
> That does two things:
>   1) Lets you convert all the public domain libraries you can find and
> ship them with your programs
>   2) Lets you sell an add-on to companies that have proprietary
> libraries they use or sell.
>   By the way, make your converter two way.  That way it is a real stand
> alone product that does not
> require you to grow market share of a mature market with lots of
> preexisting, big name competitors
> to make money.  You have two possible revenue streams that are not hard
> tied to each other.
> RM

The new version of the Pulsonix software I use will import Eagle libraries,
apparently. I haven't tried it, though.

Leon