Homebrew PCBs

Found more under Water Soluble Paper. I bet it is sitting in some form
in a local store.

http://www.meinketoy.com/catalog2.htm?item=189

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...> wrote:
> 
> Found more under Water Soluble Paper. I bet it is sitting in some form
> in a local store.
> 
> http://www.meinketoy.com/catalog2.htm?item=189

This is probably a "Real Dumb" idea, but has anyone thought of any
other ways of removing paper?  I suppose it wouldn't be too smart to
run "flash" paper through a hot photo copier, would it?  After
transferring the image to the copper board, the paper could be
ignited and quickly reduced to ash.

Dave

I've often thought of putting a board+fused toner+paper in the oven at
around 450F to char the paper.  It ought to come off pretty easy. 
Maybe next time I'll do that.

This probably wont work for the heavily coated papers (like the
staples stuff) as the clay coating needs to be removed.

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <wa4qal@y...> wrote:

> 
> --- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "crankorgan" <john@k...> wrote:
> > 
> > Found more under Water Soluble Paper. I bet it is sitting in some form
> > in a local store.
> > 
> > http://www.meinketoy.com/catalog2.htm?item=189
> 
> This is probably a "Real Dumb" idea, but has anyone thought of any
> other ways of removing paper?  I suppose it wouldn't be too smart to
> run "flash" paper through a hot photo copier, would it?  After
> transferring the image to the copper board, the paper could be
> ignited and quickly reduced to ash.
> 
> Dave

Yet ANOTHER Toner Transfer Paper Suggestion

"Paper" that dissolves in water! (actually I think it is some sort of 
starch based stuff with binding fibers.) This stuff is intended to be 
used for printing Cross-Stitch or Embroidery patterns that get pined 
to fabric and then stitched thru and the pattern gets washed away.
 
But guess what? It goes thru my HP LaserJet 4V AND holds toner 
without any problems and does in fact dissolve in water after being 
run thru a Xerox Laminator. 

(** thanks for the tipoff on the Staples rebate). 

No more fighting to get paper out of component holes when doing TT. 
No more peeling multiple layers of paper & taking traces with it. 
Clean under a light stream or spray of water with a soft tooth brush 
and diluted dishwashing soap, lightly scrubbing in a circular motion 
until the "goo" is gone. 

Information from the Mfg. Site at 
http://www.dritz.com/brands/showcase/details.php?ITEM_NUM=3190

Washaway Foundation Paper by Dritz Quilting™
Use for: Paper foundation piecing for quilting. 

Stabile machine embroidery. Quilting designs. Use with: Ink or bubble 
jet printers. Copy machines. Pens, pencils and rubber stamps. 

Item Number: 3190
Barcode Number: 072879031904

Instructions:
Set sewing machine at 12 stitches per inch. If feed dogs tear paper, 
reduce the pressure on the presser foot. Press with dry iron on wool 
setting. Quilting Instructions-Remove paper from seams before 
layering and quilting. For lightly quilted projects, paper may be 
left on during quilting. It will disappear when completed project is 
washed. For heavily quilted projects, remove paper before quilting. 
Store Wash-Away Paper in plastic bag to keep it clean and wrinkle 
free. 

Use the "Where to Buy" button (set the "Brand" box to "Dritz 
Quilting") to find a supplier in your neighborhood 

or buy from JOANN (Fabrics, Arts & Crafts stores) on line at 

<"http://www.joann.com/catalog.jhtml;$sessionid$KBZCSHYAAATFWP4SY5NBJA
R50LD3OEPO?CATID=82283&PRODID=74030&source=search">

( If that link is botched up search by brand "Dritz" at the bottom 
left hand corner of www.joann.com and then search on keywords 
"water soluable" )

Other suppliers of the (supposedly) same type of paper I have found 
but have not tried them out . . .

( Google / Froogle search term "Water Soluble Paper" or 
"Dissolve Away Foundation Paper" )

Stable Magic For Foundation Paper Piecing
Made by: Gadget Girl on the Go 

and / or

Wrights EZ Quilting Dissolve Away Foundation Paper #882142

Have you tried it?

Try it and let us know. First, that paper is not cheap and second it 
transfers 100% of image... all of it. White and black. Means nothing 
is there to etch.  Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
>
> Have you tried it?
> Try it and let us know. First, that paper is not cheap and second 
it 
> transfers 100% of image... all of it. White and black. Means 
nothing 
> is there to etch.  Mike
>

I have not etched with it but Toner out of my HP 4 on Staples Photo 
Paper is the same as Toner out of the same printer on this stuff 
(Toner is Toner) I ran one test thru a Xerox Laminator (2 passes to 
preheat board and another 2~3 passes fusing)and All toner transfered 
wonderfully even thin component outlines and labels.

At around 80 to 90 cents (US) per sheet this is more expensive than 
Picture paper at ~ 30 cents a sheet but much less work to get ALL 
the "paper" off the board and it is cheaper than Pulsar Paper or the
"Press N Peel" stuff

Sorry but I really don't understand the rest of your message

>  "White and black. Means nothing is there to etch"

?????????????

The simplest way to understand it is to buy that paper and test it. 
Then let us know. The paper is cheap, you said, right?  Mike

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> 
wrote:
>
> The simplest way to understand it is to buy that paper and test 
it. 
> Then let us know. The paper is cheap, you said, right?  Mike
>


I am not at all convinced one paper is better than another.  During 
the last few months I have been using up some glossy HP Inkjet 
paper. It's pretty heavy stock, but it's been working most of the 
time.

The first two variables that sort of monkey wrenched the paper thing 
is this...

With one brand of PCB material, the transfer was easy and perfect. 
The same day and within minutes of doing one with "Board A", I 
couldn't get anything to work with "Board B".  Both were single 
sided, 1 Oz, 1/16 thick stock but by different companies.

Then I tried pre-etching the boards (Brand B) and that took care of 
the transfer problems.

This particular paper would take forever to soak off (it is thick) 
and would leave a film.  Then, using the same paper a couple of days 
ago, I transferd the image to a board, tossed it in some water and 
the paper came right off - no white residue - same paper as I was 
using.  I think there might have been two differences...

1) When I would have trouble getting the paper off- I was letting 
the board cool before putting in water.  The humidity was higher.

2) When the paper came off and didn't leave any residue, I didn't 
let the board cool before putting in water and the humidity was much 
lower (very cold outside).

I don't think it is iron temp - I set it and check it with a digital 
thermometer.  I don't think it is presure, I press the same way 
every time. I don't think it is pressing time - I watch the second 
hand of the clock and count off my 20 seconds for each pressing.

So, I have a hunch there is much more going on that just a 
particular brand of paper.  I think there is much to do with 
enviroment and even technique.  

In my last battle with bad transfers (with board brand B), I tried 
magazine pages and frankly found that to perform as good as anything 
i have tried so far.  I just have to remember to use that, rather 
than reaching for "printer paper".  

It sure is interesting though seeing all the goods, the bads, and 
the downright uglies when going through this process!

Chris

--- In Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com, "scratch_6057" <dml.empsrch@c...> 
wrote:
>
> Yet ANOTHER Toner Transfer Paper Suggestion
> 
> "Paper" that dissolves in water! 

See previous postings under this subject for more information.

UPDATE : Picture (200 dpi scan) posted of board using this water
soluble paper. 20 mil and 40 mil traces. 

Photo Albums 
  -- > TT n Water Soluble Paper 
       -- > TT + Water Soluble Paper