Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

>
> I don't know why we are arguing about this.

I wasn't aware that I was arguing.. but it sounds strange that you  
say this and then go on arguing. :o) I didn't even deny OSX is  
slower, I'm just pointing out some misunderstandings.

> I think its common
> knowledge that X is better and more modern but it also is  
> signficiantly
> less efficient in many ways.

That depends on how you define "less efficient"..:

> If you go look on the box for something
> like Native Instruments plugs or Arturias Moog, you will see the
> requirements when running system 9 to be something like 500 mhz and  
> 733
> mhz if you are running X. That means to run the same plug you need
> almost 50% more processor speed to compensate for the lower efficiency
> of X.

Well you can't just devide mhz's like that comparing entirely  
different operating systems. OSX simply does more and for that it  
requires more power. It's not devoting all of that 733 MHz to the  
plugin. Which is why "less efficient" isn't necessarily true. Only  
when you don't want what extra OSX has to offer this is less  
efficient, but then as I said you should stick to the old system. And  
if you say "but new stuff is only for OSX" then remember that OSX  
also makes things easier for developers.

> I have used several computers over the past few years with both 9
> and X, and although 9 is looking more and more dated, it actually
> reacts faster.

I never disagreed with that. All I said in my previous mail is that  
the responsiveness of the graphics has got nothing to do with the  
amount of cpu required for other tasks (even if it is higher, which  
it is!), they're two different factors.

> About graphics being redrawn - they are re-drawn much more often than
> you might imagine.

Being a software architect, I doubt that unless there is something  
severely wrong with my imagination. :o)

> If you have several windows open, any time one
> obscures another, and you click on the back on, its redrawn.

But this redraw could be a simple blit of cached data. But even if  
not, this only happens during user interaction, and still happens  
only a few percent of the processor's time.

> Anytime
> you click on any window I believe causes it to be redrawn (note the
> grayed out title bar change).

Nope. The titlebar is handled completely separate from the rest of  
the window. Redraws are done per area anyway, but the titlebar and  
window widgets are owned by the window manager which is a completely  
separate process.

As for the rest of the redraw story, it seems you're really  
overestimating the amount of power it takes to draw a graphic. The  
original point was that OSX is slower because its graphics are  
fancier. Once we start talking about meters and knobs, this actually  
depends on the application, not the os. Furthermore, as I said, no  
matter how taxing the graphics are, they will not slow down the rest  
of the system since the drawing is only carried out when the CPU has  
nothing else to do (lowest priority). So the speed at which the  
graphics are drawn says nothing (directly) about the speed of the  
rest of the system.

> Ok that might be true. It might be because of the better multi-process
> threading which 9 doesn't have. Actually there are a lot of processes
> going on at any given time in X.

Yes, in X everything is "daemonized" as it is in Unixy systems, which  
makes it slightly slower but much more flexible, which has its effect  
on the power of new applications written for it. So the bottom line  
is, yes you require some more power (and get it by the way) but it  
does raise the level of computing even if you don't notice and -  
unfortunately - even if you don't need it. But well if OSX had to  
take that into account it would turn into an enormously complex (and  
probably unstable) beast - hence; the choice is to stick to the old  
or fully go with the new.

>> Switching off all fancy graphic things (which in fact you can)  
>> doesn't
>>
> have much influence on that.
>
> How do you do that?

Well not all I just noticed ;) but in the dock preferences you can  
switch off the genie effect and the bouncing icon, and in the  
appearance preferences you can switch off font smoothing. Now  
obviously not using the genie effect makes minimizing applications  
faster on a slow system, but apart from that I don't really notice  
any difference in performance (500MHz G3 iBook and 400MHz G3 iMac).

So again, I'm not denying OSX is slower, I'm just saying the root  
causes are different than they might seem.

Maurits.