Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

On Jan 6, 2005, at 10:44 AM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/5/05 9:07:46 AM, dennis@... 
> writes:
> I'm a little confused here. There are two types of copywrite - there 
> is a copywrite for a melody and lyrics, and there is a copywrite for a 
> performance. Usually a sample-stealing case would be a violation of 
> the second type, while I would agree that in the case of the Verve 
> that they broke both copywrites by stealing a (string) melody and a 
> performance. On the other hand, royalties are only paid on the first 
> kind of copyright, are they not? And then licenses are granted and 
> sliding fees for performance copyright usage (I am supposing).

Publishing arrangements are complicated and I am the last one that 
should be explaining them but indeed the money that comes from record 
sales and the money that comes from say airplay and or other bands 
doing copies of the song are separate, I have no idea how that was 
worked out in the case of that song.


>  In the case of a band, they most certainly are not the same thing as 
> the songwriter.

That is true the are not necessarily the same.  The authors are the 
authors, the band is the band.


> One famous case (among many) is Lionel Ritchie who earned much more 
> money than his bandmates in Commodore, and this caused a lot of 
> friction. If a band records a CD and copyrights its performance, they 
> don't get royalties froma that do they, ... i think they just get what 
> their contract says they get.

I am terrible at this stuff but basically there is a set amount that 
the author "has to get" by law and that he cannot negotiate away even 
if he wants to.  That is for writing the song itself, then there is the 
royalty for the performance on the recording and that can be negotiated 
to be about anything that people can agree to.


>  So I am not understanding what happened with the Stones. Did they 
> suck up all songwriting royalties and/or all CD selling proceeds from 
> the Verve?

I do not know.


> > One could argue that writing good jokes takes the same amount of
>  > talent as being a great musician - a different kind of talent, but 
> not
>  > something many people can do.
>
>  Like I keep telling you people publish these things in magazines
>  or books ore whatever or comedians pay for them as original material
>  and if they are really good the general public picks them up and 
> starts
>  retelling them. 
>
>
>
>  If I pay $50 for a Stones Concert ticket, then they got paid for 
> their performance.

Not necessarily.  That is where Joe Average fucks up.  Often bands make 
little to nothing on the big tours and all of the money gets sucked up 
by production and promotion.  Often the band's cut ends up coming out 
of the merchandizing.

> Therefore using your logic, I should be able to make a DAT recording 
> that night, and then send it around,

No that bears not resemblance to my logic at all.  If you called your 
friends sang the tunes to them on the phone that would be about the 
equivalent of what I said.

> the same as making a xerox copy of an article from a magazine and send 
> it around for free.

Do you do that?

It is not legal or encouraged by anyone actually.

Not that most people care much because it is simply not widespread 
enough to do any significant damage.  Paper and copying cost money,

>> That is because like I have said about 5 times now the people who
>>  publish them make their money on the sale of the publication they
>>  appear in.  They do not expect any other compensation and that is
>>  reasonable for the simple reason that policing their usage would be
>>  impossible.
>
>
>
>  What if they did expect compensation.

Then they are naive and unrealistic.  I mean what do you think is going 
happen?  Are the food police going to be sending and army of experts 
who happen to have millions of recipies in their heads out to 
restaurants to taste the food and figure out by virtue of their super 
human taste buds and computer like memories if one of those millions of 
published recipies has been infringed upon?   If one of them decides 
that there is an infringement going on what are they going to do, a 
sting operation in the kitchen with a hidden video camera to see 
exactly how much salt and pepper that cook is shaking onto those sunny 
side ups?

> Wolfgang Puck sells recipe book as does Alton Brown (he has a cool 
> show!), and many others... (incidently Pat Chapman has the best Indian 
> cookbooks!). If they publish something on the web its very similar to 
> a band having a teaser track or .. like on Amazon, you can listen via 
> Real to part of a song. Certainly you wouldn't agree to grab those 
> snippets and distribute them?

As it happens I do not have a cooking fetish.  Nor am I obsessed with 
the notion of distributing recipies.  Although I suppose maybe I should 
get such an obsession so that let anyone in the world who might want to 
invite me to dinner will know how to cook.


>> > Its been a fact for several years, that 'stealing' MP3's is a world
>> > wide phenomenan. Its doubtful that its going to ever be curtailed.
>>
>>  The old "Lots of people steal so therefore stealing is not wrong"
>>  argument?  Your moral compass has been resting on a magnet for too
>>  long.  But really what does that have to do with the Stones letting 
>> the  Vervepipe get away with ripping them off.

> My moral compass is just fine. (I am irritated that I have to pay for 
> CD's that I also bought as LP's years ago - paying twice for the same 
> intellectual property.)

Though my heart bleeds for you, through this veil of tears I should 
point out that the vast bulk of what of what you are paying for is the 
merchandise, packaging, and distribution, the amount of royalty in you 
are paying is actually only a small fraction.

I suppose record companies could enrich themselves and enrage artists 
by offering a trade in policy wherein anyone with a record could trade 
it in on the same CD for the retail price minus the cost of the 
artist's royalty.  That way everyone in the record industry but the 
artists could make a profit on the upgrade.

Lovely!


> I am not saying downloading music is good or bad. I am just saying 
> that its a fact of life. People drive over the speed limit, and don't 
> stop completely at stop signs, and do a lot of things that are 
> technically illegal. The point I keep making is that those who will be 
> successful need to adapt to reality rather than complain that things 
> are no longer the same as they were.

They may need to adapt but none of the ways you have suggested look 
like to me like they are particularly useful adaptations if the 
objective is survival.