Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

Hi everyone and happy christmas!

Just wondering if there's a better way...

Currently, I'm mixing down by doing a bounce on the Master fader in 
Logic.  this requires recording any Midi tracks I'm using from external 
devices as well as capturing external effects.

As I demand more and more from the machine, was wondering if I should 
return to mixing down through the analog Mackie mixer to some sort of 
mixdown deck.  I used to use Mini disc and then to a sampler but is 
there something better that I can be using?  Perhaps I would then buy a 
hardware mastering box like the finalizer or something.

Thoughts?

best
andrew ingkavet


Andrew Ingkavet
Executive Producer / Composer
300 MONKS - VISIONARY MUSIC
web:  http://300monks.com
email:  info@...
telephone:  917-449-7805

"---Deep in the forests of Brooklyn, 300 monks live,
work and pray creating exquisite handcrafted soundtracks.---"

>Hi everyone and happy christmas!
>
>Just wondering if there's a better way...
>
>Currently, I'm mixing down by doing a bounce on the Master fader in 
>Logic.  this requires recording any Midi tracks I'm using from 
>external devices as well as capturing external effects.
>
>As I demand more and more from the machine, was wondering if I 
>should return to mixing down through the analog Mackie mixer to some 
>sort of mixdown deck.  I used to use Mini disc and then to a sampler 
>but is there something better that I can be using?  Perhaps I would 
>then buy a hardware mastering box like the finalizer or something.
>
>Thoughts?
>
>best
>andrew ingkavet



I personally like the idea of streamlining my rig as much as 
possible, in fact I just got rid of the digital mixer I'd been using 
for years. If you want to insert something across the mix bus (using 
an I/O plug-in) to use analog processing, then sure, by all means.

But I certainly wouldn't add an analog mixer to the signal path if I 
didn't need it, especially not a budget one that's not going to add 
anything good to the sound. Just hook everything up to your audio 
interface, use Input objects to handle external inputs, bounce the 
mix to disk, and burn a CD.

If you don't have enough inputs, I'd look at expanding my audio 
interface hardware (I use three MOTU boxes). And if your computer is 
running out of processing power, then look at something like the TC 
Powercore (or think about upgrading your computer).

My opinion only. :)
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

--- Nick Batzdorf <recording@...> wrote:

 And if
> your computer is 
> running out of processing power, then look at
> something like the TC 
> Powercore (or think about upgrading your computer).

How about the UAD-1?
JP


>

Andrew,

Have you tried using the freeeze function in Logic?  I believe that you 
can use it to freeze any effects inserted on audio tracks as well as VI 
tracks.   This should free up some resources.   You can also try stems, 
or submixes to reduce CPU usage.  What computer and hardware are you using?

Good luck,
-Michele Hobbs

Andrew Ingkavet wrote:

> Hi everyone and happy christmas!
>
> Just wondering if there's a better way...
>
> Currently, I'm mixing down by doing a bounce on the Master fader in 
> Logic. this requires recording any Midi tracks I'm using from external 
> devices as well as capturing external effects.
>
> As I demand more and more from the machine, was wondering if I should 
> return to mixing down through the analog Mackie mixer to some sort of 
> mixdown deck. I used to use Mini disc and then to a sampler but is 
> there something better that I can be using? Perhaps I would then buy a 
> hardware mastering box like the finalizer or something.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> best
> andrew ingkavet
>
>
> Andrew Ingkavet
> Executive Producer / Composer
> 300 MONKS - VISIONARY MUSIC
> web: http://300monks.com
> email: info@...
> telephone: 917-449-7805
>
> "---Deep in the forests of Brooklyn, 300 monks live,
> work and pray creating exquisite handcrafted soundtracks.---"
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

> As I demand more and more from the machine, was wondering if I
> should return to mixing down through the analog Mackie mixer to 
> some sort of mixdown deck.


Could you be more specific about what it means to 'demand more and
more from the machine?'  I could make a million suggestions and
having a clearer picture of how you work, what your budget is,  and 
what you desire from your rig would help a lot.

Thanks!

u b i k

On Dec 26, 2004, at 4:15 AM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> I have fairly decent results bouncing down in Logic - albeit the 
> occasional click or silent track. Some people say that you get a 
> better mix by going through a mixer. Gareth Jones (who produced for 
> Depeche Mode) said that he uses a RME as a summing buss, but there are 
> dedicated units like the one by Dangerous. In fact, there were some 
> raging discussions on the LUG about whethere the sound is different if 
> added digitally or via an analog device. I don't know the answer 
> myself. It would seem like a "poor man"'s summing bus to route through 
> a Mackie back in to a separate audio track, and then mix this track in 
> with the rest (after time correcting) - and maybe doing some A/B tests 
> by burning separate tracks to audio and seeing if you can hear a 
> difference. I have also read of people playing their mixes through 
> speakers, and micing them and recording that back to the original 
> project.
>
Hey everyone.
thanks for the abundance of thinking here.

I've just made the switch to Logic 7 and the reason why this question 
came up is my Waves Native Power Pack including the L1 doesn't work 
now.  And since it'll be a paid upgrade when it does come, wondering if 
I should explore other options.  The whole issue of summing is 
interesting and I'm wondering if I would be able to hear the difference 
on something like the RME or the slew of others that have come out.

Also having the ability to just route everything through the mixer 
without having to digitize certain tracks (MIDI) would be accelerated 
workflow.

Here's my setup:
I'm on a dual G4 (upgraded) 1.2 Gigahertz with 1.3gig RAM
LogicPro7
Atmosphere
Trilogy
Stylus Classic
Absynth2
Vienna Symphonic Library and a bunch of others living on separate 
firewire disks
Logic Control
--
ext
Lexicon MPX500
Roland XV5080
Unitor 8
Motu 2408 MKII
Roland DS-90 monitors
Mackie 1202



Andrew Ingkavet
300 Monks -Visionary Music for Picture
http://300monks.com

Hello :
With a more than decent mixer you´ll definetly hear a difference in 
your mixes. With your mackie I don´t know... Try this : Do a pretty 
good mix internally and bounce it. Then without changing any level 
use separate outputs and with your mixer faders at O ( unity gain ) 
record the resulting mix .  put both on separate outputs, match 
levels and hear them... 
With my soudcraft 1600 I was able to hear the difference even @ 16bit 
with an AW8 . with the Multiface is even bigger. IMHO of course :-)
kind regards

On 25/12/2004, at 6:00 PM, james page wrote:

> How about the UAD-1?

The UAD will definitely help your mixes, but for very different reasons 
than the original poster was wondering about.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com

On 25/12/2004, at 12:55 AM, Andrew Ingkavet wrote:

> Hi everyone and happy christmas!
>
> Just wondering if there's a better way...
>
> Currently, I'm mixing down by doing a bounce on the Master fader in 
> Logic.  this requires recording any Midi tracks I'm using from 
> external devices as well as capturing external effects.
>
> As I demand more and more from the machine, was wondering if I should 
> return to mixing down through the analog Mackie mixer to some sort of 
> mixdown deck.  I used to use Mini disc and then to a sampler but is 
> there something better that I can be using?  Perhaps I would then buy 
> a hardware mastering box like the finalizer or something.

You don't mention if you have any audio hardware. If you don't (use any 
audio hardware) then definitely use Logic's bounce because introducing 
the Mac's crappy D to A into then equation will only make it worse.

As for use of a Mackie grade analog mixer as a sum bus if you did have 
decent audio hardware I still think internal bounce would be better and 
even if you did try this you don't need an external deck to record the 
results. You can record the mix back in Logic.

Depending on which audio hardware you have (if any) there is a 
possibility you can use it's summing for what I think is the best 
possible route for anyone who does not have access to a Neve quality 
desk for summing.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Paul Najar
Jaminajar Music Production
www.jaminajar.com

On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:24 PM, Paul Najar wrote:

> Depending on which audio hardware you have (if any) there is a 
> possibility you can use it's summing for what I think is the best 
> possible route for anyone who does not have access to a Neve quality 
> desk for summing.

Thanks Paul.
I guess I was wondering what other people were doing BESIDES bounce.  
It doesn't sound like anyone uses a mixdown deck anymore of any kind.

My Physical Setup is:
LogicPro7
G4 Dual 1.2 Ghz (upgraded) w/ 1.3 gig RAM
MOTU 2408 Mark II
Mackie 1202
Roland DS-90 monitors
Focusrite Platinum Penta Compressor/Pre
ART Dual Levelar
Roland XV5080 w/ digital convertor to ADAT lightpipe output
Lexicon MPX500
Alesis QS7 - use only as controller
Unitor 8
Logic Control
Roland DS90s
A non-working Roland SP808 - I loved this unit!


Virtual:
Absynth2
Spectrasonics all
Vienna Symphonic Library
Various other libraries


Andrew Ingkavet
300 Monks -Visionary Music for Picture
http://300monks.com

I mix through a Yamaha 02R with tc finalizer.
I use a 2408mkII
Avalon pre amps
digimax pre's
presonus pre's
logic 6 pro on g4 dual 1ghz with 1.5gb ram
mackie monitors
With this who needs a neve or ssl?
The quality of your mix is really dependent on how you record and process the results.
The upside and downside of digital is you get what you put in. What I mean by that is simply
the rules that apply to recording in the analog world of eqing and compressing and so on
no longer apply in the digital world. The biggest mistake most will make is limiting their possibilities
when they record the tracks by eqing and compressing and overprocessing the material
as it is recorded. That limits your options when you mix. Record the tracks dry
with full bandwidth, and no processing. The exception is acoustic instruments
where the dynamic range needs to be squished a little to keep up signal to noise ratios.
That is where compression with a good analog tube pre amp like an Avalon is necessary.
Then you have all the options open when you are ready to mix. the digital domain opens
up a world of new possibilities once you are ready to let go of the old ideas about engineering.
So what comes out has more to do with how you mix and process in the digital domain. 
I use lots of plug ins for processing then bounce the results to what would be the old 
school method of bussing. So I've got a stereo "bus" or 2 track for drums, one for vocals
and so on.  I then use bounce to give me a 2 track which I master the old school way. 
When all the parts come together, it's magic.
Maybe this will help and maybe not

Howard

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andrew Ingkavet 
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/28/2004 5:40:02 AM 
Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Mixdown options


On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:24 PM, Paul Najar wrote:

> Depending on which audio hardware you have (if any) there is a 
> possibility you can use it's summing for what I think is the best 
> possible route for anyone who does not have access to a Neve quality 
> desk for summing.

Thanks Paul.
I guess I was wondering what other people were doing BESIDES bounce.  
It doesn't sound like anyone uses a mixdown deck anymore of any kind.

My Physical Setup is:
LogicPro7
G4 Dual 1.2 Ghz (upgraded) w/ 1.3 gig RAM
MOTU 2408 Mark II
Mackie 1202
Roland DS-90 monitors
Focusrite Platinum Penta Compressor/Pre
ART Dual Levelar
Roland XV5080 w/ digital convertor to ADAT lightpipe output
Lexicon MPX500
Alesis QS7 - use only as controller
Unitor 8
Logic Control
Roland DS90s
A non-working Roland SP808 - I loved this unit!


Virtual:
Absynth2
Spectrasonics all
Vienna Symphonic Library
Various other libraries


Andrew Ingkavet
300 Monks -Visionary Music for Picture
http://300monks.com


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT






Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/
  
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Logic_Cafe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

On 31/12/2004, at 5:09 AM, Howard Lipp wrote:

> I mix through a Yamaha 02R with tc finalizer.
> I use a 2408mkII
> Avalon pre amps
> digimax pre's
> presonus pre's
> logic 6 pro on g4 dual 1ghz with 1.5gb ram
> mackie monitors
> With this who needs a neve or ssl?

I made the below quoted comment. I was not saying you need a high 
quality analog mixer to do good mixing I was saying that unless you had 
an analog mixer of "Neve Quality" it was pointless experimenting with 
analog summing.

> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Andrew Ingkavet
> To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 12/28/2004 5:40:02 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Mixdown options
>
> On Dec 27, 2004, at 7:24 PM, Paul Najar wrote:
>
> > Depending on which audio hardware you have (if any) there is a
> > possibility you can use it's summing for what I think is the best
>  > possible route for anyone who does not have access to a Neve quality
>  > desk for summing.
>
> Thanks Paul.
> I guess I was wondering what other people were doing BESIDES bounce. 
>  It doesn't sound like anyone uses a mixdown deck anymore of any kind.
>
> My Physical Setup is:
> LogicPro7
> G4 Dual 1.2 Ghz (upgraded) w/ 1.3 gig RAM
> MOTU 2408 Mark II
> Mackie 1202
> Roland DS-90 monitors
> Focusrite Platinum Penta Compressor/Pre
> ART Dual Levelar
> Roland XV5080 w/ digital convertor to ADAT lightpipe output
> Lexicon MPX500
> Alesis QS7 - use only as controller
> Unitor 8
> Logic Control
> Roland DS90s
> A non-working Roland SP808 - I loved this unit!
>
>
> Virtual:
> Absynth2
> Spectrasonics all
> Vienna Sy
>
>
>  Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <122603_LREC_bkup_BR_Ashanti.jpg>
> <image.tiff>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> 	• 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/
>  
> 	• 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Logic_Cafe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> 	• 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
>
>