Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

All I've ever wanted for Christmas is a recording setup that allows  
me to turn it on and start making music right away.  I thought buying  
a MOTU 828 mk I would do that for me, but it's been a nightmare of  
troubleshooting every time I launch Logic.

My setup is such that my "front end" is my EZBus, and I am going ADAT  
from EZ to 828, then FW into the iMac.  I am using the 828's internal  
clock, which is being transmitted to the EZBus through the ADAT optical.

The problem is that every time turn on my setup, the 2 units fail to  
sync up, and I get no sound.  Sometimes I get an error msg on the  
EZBus that says my clock source has changed to internal, so I have to  
go in and reset it to external optical, and sometimes that fixes it,  
but most of the time I then have to turn off the EZBus and turn it  
back on, do the same to the 828 or to both of them.   There's no  
consistent solution to the problem, but it always somehow resolves if  
I turn my equipment off and on again enough times.

I'm thinking part of the problem is that I am turning on all my  
equipment by turning on the power on my Furman power conditioner, and  
the simultaneous start up makes it hard for my equipment to  
communicate with one another.  But I don't know this for a fact, and  
it would be a real pain to have to leave the power on and turn on  
each individual piece of equipment in the right order whenever I  
wanted to write, so I'm hoping someone out there has a better solution.

Thanks,

Gregory

Sometimes the order you turn things on matters. Its not everything, but maybe 
just your motu, ezbus, and mac. why don't you try a few permutations? I went 
through this for a long time every time I had a power failure because I was 
using an asante apple talk to ethernet converter, and I had to switch things 
off, then restart them in a certain order. So your case is even more critical.

For me, I just use an m-audio firewire device, and its always ready without 
any fuss. They used to cost $400 but I saw where www.audiomidi.com is selling 
them for like $140 a few days ago. I have a better converter too, but its great 
for quick and dirty recordings. I just hit the phantom power button, and have 
a mic already on the stand (wrapped in plastic), and I am ready to make a 
scratch recording.


> The problem is that every time turn on my setup, the 2 units fail to
> sync up, and I get no sound. Sometimes I get an error msg on the
> EZBus that says my clock source has changed to internal, so I have to
> go in and reset it to external optical, and sometimes that fixes it,
> but most of the time I then have to turn off the EZBus and turn it
> back on, do the same to the 828 or to both of them. There's no
> consistent solution to the problem, but it always somehow resolves if
> I turn my equipment off and on again enough times.
> 
> I'm thinking part of the problem is that I am turning on all my
> equipment by turning on the power on my Furman power conditioner, and
> the simultaneous start up makes it hard for my equipment to
> communicate with one another.
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Gregory <glists@...> wrote:
>
> All I've ever wanted for Christmas is a recording setup that allows  
> me to turn it on and start making music right away.  I thought buying  
> a MOTU 828 mk I would do that for me, but it's been a nightmare of  
> troubleshooting every time I launch Logic.
> 
> My setup is such that my "front end" is my EZBus, and I am going ADAT  
> from EZ to 828, then FW into the iMac.  I am using the 828's internal  
> clock, which is being transmitted to the EZBus through the ADAT optical.
> 
> The problem is that every time turn on my setup, the 2 units fail to  
> sync up, and I get no sound.  Sometimes I get an error msg on the  
> EZBus that says my clock source has changed to internal, so I have to  
> go in and reset it to external optical, and sometimes that fixes it,  
> but most of the time I then have to turn off the EZBus and turn it  
> back on, do the same to the 828 or to both of them.   There's no  
> consistent solution to the problem, but it always somehow resolves if  
> I turn my equipment off and on again enough times.
> 
> I'm thinking part of the problem is that I am turning on all my  
> equipment by turning on the power on my Furman power conditioner, and  
> the simultaneous start up makes it hard for my equipment to  
> communicate with one another.  But I don't know this for a fact, and  
> it would be a real pain to have to leave the power on and turn on  
> each individual piece of equipment in the right order whenever I  
> wanted to write, so I'm hoping someone out there has a better solution.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Gregory
>

Hi Gregory,
For digital sync its always best to start the master first, so the slave won't slip into internal 
mode if it doesn't get clock. So switch on the 828, wait for its lights to stop dancing (and 
for its sync light to stop movig), start the EZBus.
If you start them 'simultaneously' then its going to be really hit-or-miss, as so many 
seemingly arbitary factors are going to become pertinent. For example the charge/
discharge rate from the PSU's capacitors will vary by temperature, so if its warmer the 
MOTU *might* charge its PSU faster and so sync would be successful, or it could be the 
other way round, or it could be phase of the mains when you power-up, or etc. etc. etc.

Mike

On Feb 18, 2007, at 2:48 PM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> For me, I just use an m-audio firewire device, and its always ready  
> without
> any fuss. They used to cost $400 but I saw where www.audiomidi.com  
> is selling
> them for like $140 a few days ago.
Which is that?
> I have a better converter too, but its great
> for quick and dirty recordings. I just hit the phantom power  
> button,...
> , and I am ready to make a
> scratch recording.

yeah, I think that's the route I will probably go.  Not getting a new  
M-audio device, but using just the one interface (828) without any  
digital connections for my daily inspirations, and hooking up all the  
other crap when I'm doing some serious recording and have all day to  
troubleshoot.

>  and have
> a mic already on the stand (wrapped in plastic)

I've got all 7 of my mics sitting around in their stands ready for  
band practice.  It never occurred to me to cover them up.  For the  
dust, I'm assuming?  I think grocery bags ought to be an attractive  
option.

Gregory

On Feb 18, 2007, at 8:14 PM, mt100uk wrote:
>
> Hi Gregory,
> For digital sync its always best to start the master first, so the  
> slave won't slip into internal
> mode if it doesn't get clock. So switch on the 828, wait for its  
> lights to stop dancing (and
> for its sync light to stop movig), start the EZBus.

I wish I could tell the EZBus not to panic, and just keep the  
external setting no matter what.  Aren't slaves supposed to do what  
they're told?

Now you've also got me wondering if there's more than user error  
going on.  Both the s/pdif and optical lights on the 828 dance  
constantly, even when everything is working well, and even though I  
have never had anything plugged into the coax inputs.  The clock  
light is stable at 44.1, but the other two never stopped until 5  
minutes ago when I yanked out the optical cables.
> If you start them 'simultaneously' then its going to be really hit- 
> or-miss, as so many
> seemingly arbitary factors are going to become pertinent. For  
> example the charge/
> discharge rate from the PSU's capacitors will vary by temperature,  
> so if its warmer the
> MOTU *might* charge its PSU faster and so sync would be successful,  
> or it could be the
> other way round, or it could be phase of the mains when you power- 
> up, or etc. etc. etc.
I figured that there was a variable timing issue, though I didn't  
have any understanding of reasons why that might be the case.  Now I do.

I think I'm going to give the EZBus a much needed rest for now and  
see if I can eliminate start-up delays by just sticking to the one  
interface.  I am curious about those dancing lights though.  Not the  
ones near Area 51; the ones on my 828.  I bought it used on Ebay for  
$250, which I thought was a good deal, but if it's got stinky sync,  
then maybe it wasn't such a hot deal.

Gregory

>  
I find Logic to be very inflexible in one particular area, and I¹m curious
if anyone has dealt with this, and has a solution that isn¹t, well, awkward.

Suppose I have some  hardware sequencers (yes, sometimes more than one), and
want to send them into Logic and route them flexibly between external midi
destinations, and soft synths. I also want to change around this routing
quickly and easily.

How can you accomplish this? I know that you can do it behind the scenes in
the environment, but that¹s not really a good solution ­ I¹d rather boot up
Cubase or Live and do this in seconds.

But aside from this issue, I¹d much rather use Logic consistently. But I¹ve
never found a good solution to this midi routing issue, having to do with
how Logic doesn¹t really provide midi input filters on the track level like
Cubase, or allow you to simply set an input port/channel and an output
port/channel like Live....

Maybe I¹m missing something obvious. But I don¹t think so. 


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> > and have
> > a mic already on the stand (wrapped in plastic)
> 
> I've got all 7 of my mics sitting around in their stands ready for
> band practice. It never occurred to me to cover them up. For the
> dust, I'm assuming? I think grocery bags ought to be an attractive
> option.
> 

I've think I've read you're "supposed" to keep mics in their cases. I'm not a 
mic expert, but some of the expensive condensor mics have very thin 
diaphrams, and it doesn't seem that dust would improve the tone the produce. What works 
really well, is the bags that Apple gives you when you buy ipods or other 
small stuff. They are double thickness, and have a thick string that can be used 
to tighten. So I pop the bag over the mic, then tighten the string, then wrap 
the string around the neck of the bag.


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In the current issue of SoundOnSound (on the shelves in the US, which is 
always a few months behind Britain), in the Logic section they were saying that 
people can send wishlist items, and they relay them to apple, and one wish was 
for Apple to work better with external midi as I recall.


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