Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

Hi,

Has anybody had experience using the liquid mixer? I am just a lowly singer/songwriter. I 
have trouble using Logic. Especially making drum tracks. The ones in the loops browser are 
limited for singer/songwriter stuff. So that's another question.

But is the liquid mixer a quality product worth getting because it produces professional 
mixes?

I can lay down audio tracks. Can anybody suggest either a really good Logic 7.1 Pro tutorial 
and/or a tutorial on how to make good drum tracks ( maybe called Drum Tracks for 
Dummies:-)

If you check out my myspace page you'll understand!
www.myspace.com/iansklar

(one of the tracks was done with a real drummer in a real studio)

On Mar 7, 2007, at 11:40 PM, Ian Sklar wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Has anybody had experience using the liquid mixer? I am just a  
> lowly singer/songwriter.

Why are you so 'lowly?'



> I
> have trouble using Logic. Especially making drum tracks. The ones  
> in the loops browser are
> limited for singer/songwriter stuff. So that's another question.
>
> But is the liquid mixer a quality product worth getting because it  
> produces professional
> mixes?

Are you talking about the Focusrite LiquidMix?

If so, this product is designed to accomplish a few things:

a) To give end users an external processor that can be instanced like  
a plug in in a host software (such as Logic.)

b) To give end users a physical control surface to manipulate the  
parameters of those plug in's (as opposed to using the keyboard and  
mouse.)

c) to give end users access to high quality Focusrite processing and  
the unique 'flavor' of Focusrite.

Basically if you are finding that you are not happy with the plug ins  
you are using to process your signal, and you have a sense that  
Focusrite is the 'sound' you are looking for than the Liquid Mix can  
certainly help.
>
> I can lay down audio tracks. Can anybody suggest either a really  
> good Logic 7.1 Pro tutorial
> and/or a tutorial on how to make good drum tracks ( maybe called  
> Drum Tracks for
> Dummies:-)
>
Ultrabeat Unleashed.

http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/ultrabeat

Also for your style of music, you might consider Apple's Jam Packs,  
especially 'World Music' and 'Rhythm Section.'



> If you check out my myspace page you'll understand!
> www.myspace.com/iansklar

These are great songs- reminds me of Joy Division/Robyn Hitchcock/  
Echo and The Bunnymen/ even some Joe Jackson...

I didn't hear anything glaring, except I would go for a more 'drier'  
mix in terms of reverb, especially on original Sin.


Eddie
IMS ProA/V



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I know I'm not the only one to have found Stylus RMX to be the end all of all drum track 
help.   At the spectrasonics website you can see video demos.  You end up will session 
player drummers playing on your tracks, I do see having to buy the Backbeat expansion 
pack as a necessity, it's an acoustic drum playing library.

In hindsight I was wondering if I should have considered BFD (big fat drums) more closely.  
They have more acoustic grooves, real players recorded.

Often times I can find a drum pattern that works well with my song in the Stylus library, I 
can't remember the last time I programmed my own.  

I'm not familiar with liquid mixer.  So I hope my input helps for your context.

Pete



--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Sklar" <songwriternyc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> Has anybody had experience using the liquid mixer? I am just a lowly singer/songwriter. 
I 
> have trouble using Logic. Especially making drum tracks. The ones in the loops browser 
are 
> limited for singer/songwriter stuff. So that's another question.
> 
> But is the liquid mixer a quality product worth getting because it produces professional 
> mixes?
> 
> I can lay down audio tracks. Can anybody suggest either a really good Logic 7.1 Pro 
tutorial 

> and/or a tutorial on how to make good drum tracks ( maybe called Drum Tracks for 
> Dummies:-)
> 
> If you check out my myspace page you'll understand!
> www.myspace.com/iansklar
> 
> (one of the tracks was done with a real drummer in a real studio)
>

> c) to give end users access to high quality Focusrite processing and
> the unique 'flavor' of Focusrite.
> 

The Liquidmix doesn't focus on focusrite products. It emulates all kinds of 
classic gear including pultecs, neve, etc. I think 60 units in all. And you can 
run a compressor and eq on each 32 tracks - so 64 instances all without load 
on your cpu.

The LM is an incredible bargain in many ways. However, there are two issues. 
First is that there is latency, so it works best on the master audio track, or 
if you run it on every track hoping for the same latency, or else bounce each 
track. Second is that the controls are unlike most where you can continuously 
adjust a parameter - say   between 0 and 127. On the LM many controls only 
have two or three settings. For example on a compressor ratio it might be 1:1, 
2:1, 4:1, but nothing in between.


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> I know I'm not the only one to have found Stylus RMX to be the end all of 
> all drum track
> help. At the spectrasonics website you can see video demos. You end up will 
> session
> player drummers playing on your tracks
> 
Some people love Stylus. I have it, and I just use it for "quick and dirty" 
mixes of a new song. The RMX things have a groove and you need to like that 
exact groove. Its basically a set of loops, which have been recycle-ed, then a 
browser, and an pretty good effects set. However, the compressor and eq and 
stuff has to be applied to the entire loop, and there is a max of three.

I personally like NI's Battery, and to make my own beats. Battery just gives 
you so much control over the sounds. You can   easily tweak the pitch, 
distortion, and eq of individual hits, or set up cross fades on velocity changes in a 
single cell - and its all very easy.

For just basic songs, Apple Jam Packs are probably the most bang for the 
buck.


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In your estimation, what is the difference between the Liquidmix and real Neve 3 band eq pre-amp?

t

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GAmoore@... 
  To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 9:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Liquid Mixer + drum question


  > c) to give end users access to high quality Focusrite processing and
  > the unique 'flavor' of Focusrite.
  > 

  The Liquidmix doesn't focus on focusrite products. It emulates all kinds of 
  classic gear including pultecs, neve, etc. I think 60 units in all. And you can 
  run a compressor and eq on each 32 tracks - so 64 instances all without load 
  on your cpu.

  The LM is an incredible bargain in many ways. However, there are two issues. 
  First is that there is latency, so it works best on the master audio track, or 
  if you run it on every track hoping for the same latency, or else bounce each 
  track. Second is that the controls are unlike most where you can continuously 
  adjust a parameter - say between 0 and 127. On the LM many controls only 
  have two or three settings. For example on a compressor ratio it might be 1:1, 
  2:1, 4:1, but nothing in between.

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On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:28 PM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> The Liquidmix doesn't focus on focusrite products. It emulates all  
> kinds of
> classic gear including pultecs, neve, etc. I think 60 units in all.  
> And you can
> run a compressor and eq on each 32 tracks - so 64 instances all  
> without load
> on your cpu.


My bad- you are of course 100% right on this : )

They also have been making a concerted effort to add more classic  
things as well...

I guess my point was that all of these different plugins/hardware  
solutions/processors have their own sonic 'personalities' and it's  
not helpful to think of things in absolutes, as if Liquid Mix is a  
panacea of audio, it's a good choice from Focusrite if you are  
looking for the sonic choices it presents...



Eddie
IMS ProA/V



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

well i have never seen or heard a real neve so I can't compare. in 
fact, thats the biggest hassle about the LiquidMix for me is that there 
are 60 units but I don't know what to use on what. The patch name 
"American silver faced rack unit" might indicate a Urei or whatever, 
but I don't know if thats for kick drums or vocals.
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--- GAmoore@... wrote:
 However,
> the compressor and eq and 
> stuff has to be applied to the entire loop, and
> there is a max of three.

For the record, all FX can be applied individually by
using the edit groups feature. And what do you mean
"there is a max of three"?
JP

that should have been '32' channels of compressor and eq not 3.


> > the compressor and eq and
> > stuff has to be applied to the entire loop, and
> > there is a max of three.
> 
> For the record, all FX can be applied individually by
> using the edit groups feature. And what do you mean
> "there is a max of three"?
> 




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I have EZ drummer too. But no matter what sounds I use
do you know of any books or cd/dvd tutorials on how a
singer/songwriter can create drum tracks for his
songs. The loops I have and have found just don't
work.

Thx

Ian Sklar

www.myspace.com/iansklar
--- GAmoore@... wrote:

> that should have been '32' channels of compressor
> and eq not 3.
> 
> 
> > > the compressor and eq and
> > > stuff has to be applied to the entire loop, and
> > > there is a max of three.
> > 
> > For the record, all FX can be applied individually
> by
> > using the edit groups feature. And what do you
> mean
> > "there is a max of three"?
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> removed]
> 
> 



 
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I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but this is not an entirely 
trivial matter. You can basically do it one way or the other - either make a loop, 
and play to it, then you can always alter the drums later to go with the 
music. Or the other way,   is to record the song to begin with, then add drum beats 
to it - using a real drummer, or midi keyboard - start with kick and snare, 
then add the other parts.

> 
> I have EZ drummer too. But no matter what sounds I use
> do you know of any books or cd/dvd tutorials on how a
> singer/songwriter can create drum tracks for his
> songs. The loops I have and have found just don't
> work.
> 
> 
> 




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You haven't used a real Neve pre-amp before?  (I'm thinking vocals, here)  If not, get ready for a treat: if you use a good mike, like let's say a Neumann U-47 tube vintage PLUS a neve pre-amp---- your life will change.  Trust me, when I tell you this, it will change in all kinds of good ways.  For good projects, it's worth it to rent these two items.  If you are interested, I could post some vocals I did.

t

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GAmoore@... 
  To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 10:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Liquid Mixer + drum question


  well i have never seen or heard a real neve so I can't compare. in 
  fact, thats the biggest hassle about the LiquidMix for me is that there 
  are 60 units but I don't know what to use on what. The patch name 
  "American silver faced rack unit" might indicate a Urei or whatever, 
  but I don't know if thats for kick drums or vocals.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do you have some examples of the same thing recorded through the neve and 
something else? Please do post them. There is the Chameleon chinese copy of the 
neve for $700 I think. I have a Demeter preamp I use with a 103TLM.

> 
> You haven't used a real Neve pre-amp before? (I'm thinking vocals, here) If 
> not, get ready for a treat: if you use a good mike, like let's say a Neumann 
> U-47 tube vintage PLUS a neve pre-amp---- your life will change. Trust me, 
> when I tell you this, it will change in all kinds of good ways. For good 
> projects, it's worth it to rent these two items. If you are interested, I could 
> post some vocals I did.
> 
> 
> 




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Here is a link to some recordings that I have done with my U-47.   http://www.box.net/shared/0tx4slsza4



Unfortunately, I don't OWN the good pre-amp but I rent it from time to time for some better projects. (Neve 3band eq); therefore, I have the good pre-amp on some songs, not on others.  The Chinese demos have probably the biggest vocals.  I tried to put info on each recording on the website but it didn't work.  If you have any questions, let me know.

t

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: GAmoore@... 
  To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 8:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Liquid Mixer + drum question


  Do you have some examples of the same thing recorded through the neve and 
  something else? Please do post them. There is the Chameleon chinese copy of the 
  neve for $700 I think. I have a Demeter preamp I use with a 103TLM.

  > 
  > You haven't used a real Neve pre-amp before? (I'm thinking vocals, here) If 
  > not, get ready for a treat: if you use a good mike, like let's say a Neumann 
  > U-47 tube vintage PLUS a neve pre-amp---- your life will change. Trust me, 
  > when I tell you this, it will change in all kinds of good ways. For good 
  > projects, it's worth it to rent these two items. If you are interested, I could 
  > post some vocals I did.
  > 
  > 
  > 

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