Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

I'm in a tribute band, not a Beatles one, and it occurred that the really big tribute gigs go to those who can hand out scores to an orchestra.  There's a Beatles tribute called Classical Mystery Tour, and you should see their gig list.. impressive.

So I wonder if the score software inside Logic could be used to create decent looking scores for all or part of a symphony, said compositions being those of the band we, uh, tribute.  I'm Mr.MIDI, and could probably play or step enter all needed parts.

Has anyone attempted to hand Logic-created scores to an orchestra?

I could approach a music major at our university, and might for track #1, but I'd like to try it myself.  I have Logic 8..

thanks

Karl

Of course you can do that in theory - but you will find it tedious for 
one thing. And how are you going to get the parts? There are rarely 
scores written out, so you would have to pick them out by ear. (Music 
majors will prefer to see scores.) Then once all that is done, you will 
probably find that they sound a bit stiff. Midi scores are rarely 
expressive - they are best in the background to add some color. Also 
you will be locked to playing along with the midi tempo so everyone in 
the band will have to hear the click track.

That said, cover bands regularly have a synth player approximate 
orchestra arrangements. It does not have to perfect or complete or 
completely correct to give something of the right feel.

-----Original Message-----
From: k_e_moeller <mkarl2@...>
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Jul 12, 2010 6:37 pm
Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Logic's Score Creation

 
I'm in a tribute band, not a Beatles one, and it occurred that the 
really big tribute gigs go to those who can hand out scores to an 
orchestra.  There's a Beatles tribute called Classical Mystery Tour, 
and you should see their gig list.. impressive.

So I wonder if the score software inside Logic could be used to create 
decent looking scores for all or part of a symphony, said compositions 
being those of the band we, uh, tribute.  I'm Mr.MIDI, and could 
probably play or step enter all needed parts.

Has anyone attempted to hand Logic-created scores to an orchestra?

I could approach a music major at our university, and might for track 
#1, but I'd like to try it myself.  I have Logic 8..

thanks

Karl

I'm a decent orchestrator and have developed good-sounding MIDI orchestras in the past.  The idea here would be to use MIDI to hear and test the parts, and then edit and print out for the actual players.  Since MIDI wouldn't be used live, but actual live players, the click track thing doesn't pertain.

I was asking about the print creation aspects of Logic for live players, not the practicality of developing MIDI orchestration for live performance, which would indeed require a loud click track to all members of the band.

karl

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:

>
> Of course you can do that in theory - but you will find it tedious for 
> one thing. And how are you going to get the parts? There are rarely 
> scores written out, so you would have to pick them out by ear. (Music 
> majors will prefer to see scores.) Then once all that is done, you will 
> probably find that they sound a bit stiff. Midi scores are rarely 
> expressive - they are best in the background to add some color. Also 
> you will be locked to playing along with the midi tempo so everyone in 
> the band will have to hear the click track.
> 
> That said, cover bands regularly have a synth player approximate 
> orchestra arrangements. It does not have to perfect or complete or 
> completely correct to give something of the right feel.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: k_e_moeller <mkarl2@...>
> To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Jul 12, 2010 6:37 pm
> Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Logic's Score Creation
> 
> Â 
> I'm in a tribute band, not a Beatles one, and it occurred that the 
> really big tribute gigs go to those who can hand out scores to an 
> orchestra.  There's a Beatles tribute called Classical Mystery Tour, 
> and you should see their gig list.. impressive.
> 
> So I wonder if the score software inside Logic could be used to create 
> decent looking scores for all or part of a symphony, said compositions 
> being those of the band we, uh, tribute.  I'm Mr.MIDI, and could 
> probably play or step enter all needed parts.
> 
> Has anyone attempted to hand Logic-created scores to an orchestra?
> 
> I could approach a music major at our university, and might for track 
> #1, but I'd like to try it myself.  I have Logic 8..
> 
> thanks
> 
> Karl
>

It depends on how much detail you want.  I find it very easy to play in parts - the notes and rhythms require little to no adjusting if you use the right Q value in region as well as the score.  It is also easy shift between a master view of all parts, and individual parts.    The syncopation and interpretation parameters are not intuitive, but if you master them, it will make for far less beam and rest editing.

The part I find annoying is adding all the non-note symbols.   Slurs, dynamics, etc.  are not intelligent.  They're kind of just graphics that you drag onto the score and position wherever you want.  That makes it flexible, but difficult to maintain a consistent appearance throughout the score.  Also, things can become unintentionally attached to particular staves and therefore not show up in the right parts.  It's not a bug - just something you have to watch when placing symbols on the score.

So I would say that if you have a less formal environment where you can verbally tell the players what you want dynamically, it's super easy to make good scores.  If you need every slur, rest and dynamic marker in the right place, then you're in for a lot of work.   That said, I have never used anything but Logic for this purpose, so maybe it's no more work than it would be using the dedicated notation programs llike Finale or the-other-one-whose-name-I can't-remember-right-now.

Gregory

On Jul 13, 2010, at 1:38 PM, k_e_moeller wrote:

> I'm a decent orchestrator and have developed good-sounding MIDI orchestras in the past.  The idea here would be to use MIDI to hear and test the parts, and then edit and print out for the actual players.  Since MIDI wouldn't be used live, but actual live players, the click track thing doesn't pertain.
> 
> I was asking about the print creation aspects of Logic for live players, not the practicality of developing MIDI orchestration for live performance, which would indeed require a loud click track to all members of the band.
> 
> karl
> 
> --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
>> 
>> Of course you can do that in theory - but you will find it tedious for 
>> one thing. And how are you going to get the parts? There are rarely 
>> scores written out, so you would have to pick them out by ear. (Music 
>> majors will prefer to see scores.) Then once all that is done, you will 
>> probably find that they sound a bit stiff. Midi scores are rarely 
>> expressive - they are best in the background to add some color. Also 
>> you will be locked to playing along with the midi tempo so everyone in 
>> the band will have to hear the click track.
>> 
>> That said, cover bands regularly have a synth player approximate 
>> orchestra arrangements. It does not have to perfect or complete or 
>> completely correct to give something of the right feel.
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: k_e_moeller <mkarl2@...>
>> To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Mon, Jul 12, 2010 6:37 pm
>> Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Logic's Score Creation
>> 
>> Â 
>> I'm in a tribute band, not a Beatles one, and it occurred that the 
>> really big tribute gigs go to those who can hand out scores to an 
>> orchestra.  There's a Beatles tribute called Classical Mystery Tour, 
>> and you should see their gig list.. impressive.
>> 
>> So I wonder if the score software inside Logic could be used to create 
>> decent looking scores for all or part of a symphony, said compositions 
>> being those of the band we, uh, tribute.  I'm Mr.MIDI, and could 
>> probably play or step enter all needed parts.
>> 
>> Has anyone attempted to hand Logic-created scores to an orchestra?
>> 
>> I could approach a music major at our university, and might for track 
>> #1, but I'd like to try it myself.  I have Logic 8..
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> Karl
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

If you put the different parts on different staves, then you fairly 
easily select one instrument at a time (one arrange track) then go to 
the score page and print that., then choose the next....

You can export from Logic to Sibelius or whatever too - which are 
dedicated score programs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Anderson <glists@...>
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Jul 13, 2010 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: [Logic_Cafe] Re: Logic's Score Creation

 
It depends on how much detail you want.  I find it very easy to play in 
parts - the notes and rhythms require little to no adjusting if you use 
the right Q value in region as well as the score.  It is also easy 
shift between a master view of all parts, and individual parts.    The 
syncopation and interpretation parameters are not intuitive, but if you 
master them, it will make for far less beam and rest editing.

The part I find annoying is adding all the non-note symbols.   Slurs, 
dynamics, etc.  are not intelligent.  They're kind of just graphics 
that you drag onto the score and position wherever you want.  That 
makes it flexible, but difficult to maintain a consistent appearance 
throughout the score.  Also, things can become unintentionally attached 
to particular staves and therefore not show up in the right parts.  
It's not a bug - just something you have to watch when placing symbols 
on the score.

So I would say that if you have a less formal environment where you can 
verbally tell the players what you want dynamically, it's super easy to 
make good scores.  If you need every slur, rest and dynamic marker in 
the right place, then you're in for a lot of work.   That said, I have 
never used anything but Logic for this purpose, so maybe it's no more 
work than it would be using the dedicated notation programs llike 
Finale or the-other-one-whose-name-I can't-remember-right-now.

Gregory

On Jul 13, 2010, at 1:38 PM, k_e_moeller wrote:

> I'm a decent orchestrator and have developed good-sounding MIDI 
orchestras in the past.  The idea here would be to use MIDI to hear and 
test the parts, and then edit and print out for the actual players.  
Since MIDI wouldn't be used live, but actual live players, the click 
track thing doesn't pertain.
>
> I was asking about the print creation aspects of Logic for live 
players, not the practicality of developing MIDI orchestration for live 
performance, which would indeed require a loud click track to all 
members of the band.
>
> karl
>
> --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, GAmoore@... wrote:
>>
>> Of course you can do that in theory - but you will find it 
tedious for
>> one thing. And how are you going to get the parts? There are 
rarely
>> scores written out, so you would have to pick them out by ear. 
(Music
>> majors will prefer to see scores.) Then once all that is done, 
you will
&gt;> probably find that they sound a bit stiff. Midi scores are 
rarely
>> expressive - they are best in the background to add some 
color. Also
>> you will be locked to playing along with the midi tempo so 
everyone in
>> the band will have to hear the click track.
>>
>;> That said, cover bands regularly have a synth player 
approximate
>;> orchestra arrangements. It does not have to perfect or 
complete or
&gt;> completely correct to give something of the right feel.
>>
&gt;>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: k_e_moeller <mkarl2@...>
>> To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Mon, Jul 12, 2010 6:37 pm
>> Subject: [Logic_Cafe] Logic's Score Creation
&gt;>
>> Â
>> I'm in a tribute band, not a Beatles one, and it occurred that 
the
>> really big tribute gigs go to those who can hand out scores to 
an
>> orchestra.  There's a Beatles tribute called Classical Mystery 
Tour,
>> and you should see their gig list.. impressive.
>>
>> So I wonder if the score software inside Logic could be used 
to create
>> decent looking scores for all or part of a symphony, said 
compositions
>> being those of the band we, uh, tribute.  I'm Mr.MIDI, and 
could
>> probably play or step enter all needed parts.
>>
>> Has anyone attempted to hand Logic-created scores to an 
orchestra?
>>
>> I could approach a music major at our university, and might 
for track
>> #1, but I'd like to try it myself.  I have Logic 8..
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Karl
&gt;>

>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On 14/07/2010, at 9:21 AM, GAmoore@... wrote:

> If you put the different parts on different staves, then you fairly easily select one instrument at a time (one arrange track) then go to 
> the score page and print that., then choose the next....
> 
> You can export from Logic to Sibelius or whatever too - which are dedicated score programs.
> 

And would give a very professional finish..    
That is what I have done in the past.  Exported midi and imported into Sibelius and printed score and parts from there.
Sure, has required me to do a little additional cleaning up and notation (ak expression markings etc)  within Sibelius but the output is very professional and in realty what a orchestra would expect to see.

Steve
> _._,___



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have made a recording of an opera singer for a song I'm working  
on. The singer is excellent but I am trying to soften the sound of the  
vocals (less harsh, not quieter) but without making the sound too  
processed. I only have logic 9 to work with and I can't re-record the  
vocals.

Anyone got any tips please?

Thanks in advance

Andy Brook

harshness usually means unwanted energy in the upper middle range or high frequencies.  there's an EQ in Logic which allows you to SEE the audio energy across the frequency spectrum in real time.

I'd cut everything over 10KHz by 12Db and then start carving off the frequencies under that.  Listen with your best headphones.

good luck.  this is what EQ is for.

karl

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Andy Brook <bbgrove@...> wrote:

>
>   I have made a recording of an opera singer for a song I'm working  
> on. The singer is excellent but I am trying to soften the sound of the  
> vocals (less harsh, not quieter) but without making the sound too  
> processed. I only have logic 9 to work with and I can't re-record the  
> vocals.
> 
> Anyone got any tips please?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Andy Brook
>

Although I don't have much experience in Logic, the "Channel EQ" is quite nice. Assuming the vocal is compressed enough for her voice to sit on top of the mix good without sounding too unnatural, after you solo the track, find the frequency band in her voice, which sounds the harshest to you by setting the fifth frequency band up as narrow as you can get it, (which should be a "Q" of around 100) and setting that band to 800Hz with an 8 dB boost. With the 8dB boost, go UP through the frequency spectrum from 800Hz until you find the harshest spot. Once you pinpoint that frequency, cut your 8dB boost back to 0dB. Then, bring the level of that band down to about -4dB from 0dB . Then, experiment with how wide the "Q" needs to set and where the dB level needs to be.  (No matter how wide the "Q" is set, as a general plan, I never try to cut or boost  things more than 4dB, but that is just my way of doing things.) If you're not quite satisfied, keep your setting, but find another frequency band, which you can BOOST to make the track sound a bit softer. Generally, like most things, with EQ, less tends to be best. Just because you have 8 frequency bands on the "Channel EQ" in Logic, there is no rule, which say, that you always have to use all of them. 

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "k_e_moeller" <mkarl2@...> wrote:

>
> harshness usually means unwanted energy in the upper middle range or high frequencies.  there's an EQ in Logic which allows you to SEE the audio energy across the frequency spectrum in real time.
> 
> I'd cut everything over 10KHz by 12Db and then start carving off the frequencies under that.  Listen with your best headphones.
> 
> good luck.  this is what EQ is for.
> 
> karl
> 
> --- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Andy Brook <bbgrove@> wrote:
> >
> >   I have made a recording of an opera singer for a song I'm working  
> > on. The singer is excellent but I am trying to soften the sound of the  
> > vocals (less harsh, not quieter) but without making the sound too  
> > processed. I only have logic 9 to work with and I can't re-record the  
> > vocals.
> > 
> > Anyone got any tips please?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance
> > 
> > Andy Brook
> >
>