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Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

2005-01-26 by revDAVE

I'm curious, for those who have been able to compare Logic to another major
Midi/Audio App like D.P., ProTools LE (Non-TDM to keep it a fair
comparison), Cubase or Sonar etc...

- Which one would you say has the best sounding overall built-in (non- 3rd
party) DSP plug-ins  (Eq - compressors - delays - verbs etc.) ?

- Which one would make the best sounding mix using only it's own (non- 3rd
party) tools? (This would also include stereo imaging / timing issues etc.)

- Which One is Less Painful to work with? - (pick your poison)...?

- Which One plays best with others - (3rd party apps / plugs etc.)...?

- Any other general comparative comments...?

I'm very curious to know...

--
Thanks - RevDave
CoolCat@...
[db-lists]

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

2005-01-26 by wonko@nulldevice.com

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, revDAVE wrote:

> - Which one would you say has the best sounding overall built-in (non-
> 3rd party) DSP plug-ins\ufffd (Eq - compressors - delays - verbs etc.) ?
>
It's a mixed bag - SpaceDesigner is an excellent reverb.  Hands down beats 
anything bundled with any of the other major apps.  The logic tape delay 
has driven a thousand trance tracks.  LinEQ is really nice, and AFAIK none 
of the other major packages have linear-phase stuff built in (correct me 
if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I toyed with Cubase).  The 
compressor find just "eh" though.  Most of the standard plugs are jus that 
-standard, nothing too fancy.  There are a few bundled like the Filterbank 
that you don't see anywhere else.

The bundled instruments - Sculpture, EXS, ES1, ES2 - are realy far and 
away the best I've heard distributed stock with a system.  
 
> - Which One is Less Painful to work with? - (pick your poison)...?
>
I'm one of the rare people for whom Logic doesn't crash hourly, 
apparently.  WHereas for me Cubase would go down often,and when I ran it 
under OS9 it'd take my USB bus with it.
 
> - Which One plays best with others - (3rd party apps / plugs etc.)...?
> 
Hit or miss.  If the 3rd party plug is written to the AU validating 
standard, logic plays nicely and won't get screwed up by it.  But there 
certainly are a lot more VST/VSTi's out there (will Antares EVER release 
autotuneAU?) and unless you buy the wrapper, they're all off-limits.  
Sigh.  It's more a case of which 3rd party apps play best with logic, the 
proverbial 500lb gorilla in the room.

> - Any other general comparative comments...?

Eveyr program has quirks that wil annoy the hell out of you.  STudio
Vision had them, Cubase has them, and Logic has them.  Logic has worked 
best for me just due to the sort of needs and style I have, whereas Cubase 
was intesnely frustrating to me.  A friend of mine has gone entirely the 
opposite direction.  So take any opinions with a grain of salt.

_______________________________________________________
Eric Oehler / wonko@... / www.nulldevice.com
Synthetic music for synthetic people.

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

2005-01-26 by GAmoore@aol.com

I pretty much agree with the assesment of the logic plugs - space designer, tape delay, sculpture are really good. Also the stereo delay is quite useful, although I prefer the Waves style of graphically positioning the echos.

I also use the limiter alot (The UAudio LA2A limiter still allows overloads, whereas the Logic limiter seems to be more of a brick wall limiter which clamps down on spikes). Its simple, but I also like the low cut and high cut filters for quick eq sculpting.

I haven't use the logic autotune yet, but I think that will save me the upgrade fee if/when Antares updates autotune, mic modeler, etc to AU. The Ringshifter is a nice addition which seems similar to a GRM and a Prosoniq plug. The logic plug might not be quite as good but since its "free" and does pretty much the same thing, its quite useful.

Bitcrusher is useful, and the Guitar Amp - although they really don't replace a decent valve simulation. I wish they would just license the POD software.

And there are the Logic unique things like the auto-filter and Evoc20 suite. By the way, I really liked the vocoder on the Nord Modular where you could send bands randomly crisscrossing - but neither the evoc20 nor vokator can do that.

I think one of my main wishes for Logic 7.1 would be to extend the node distribution to 3rd party plugs. I heavily rely on several non-Logic soft synths but the system gets bogged down quickly and then starts crashing. I think that feature would be the 'tipping point' to get a G5 and farm out the G4 for node duty.

By the way, I read an article that you can connect nodes through Firewire if you don't have gigabit ethernet.

RE: [Logic_Cafe] Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

2005-01-27 by Kamm Schreiner

> - Which one would you say has the best sounding overall 
> built-in (non- 3rd
> party) DSP plug-ins  (Eq - compressors - delays - verbs etc.) ?

I've never done any in depth listening tests, but I would give Logic the
tilt for the included effects being easier to adjust and I like their method
of handling user presets better too.

> - Which one would make the best sounding mix using only it's 
> own (non- 3rd
> party) tools? (This would also include stereo imaging / 
> timing issues etc.)

I'm too green in this area to be of any usefulness. Currently I find that
the Audio tracks I'm recording with Logic sound very digital. This may be a
setting somewhere or it could be my TASCAM US-122 that's causing it. I
didn't notice this with Sonar, but then I didn't use the US-122 with it.

> - Which One is Less Painful to work with? - (pick your poison)...?

I find Logic the hardest to learn, Sonar and Cubase about equal and to me at
least, much easier to get started with. Once learned, I find Logic faster to
get things done.

> - Which One plays best with others - (3rd party apps / plugs etc.)...?

Your guess is as good as mine. Which tool do you blame when something goes
wrong, the exporter or the importer?

> - Any other general comparative comments...?

To a large degree what is best is going to be different for different
people. I tried Sonar, Logic and Cubase. I ended up with Logic, but it could
have possibly gone to Cubase except for some crashing problems that probably
weren't Cubase's fault, but I just wasn't willing to put more time into it.
I wanted to get working.

Cubase's pros were ease of use, fantastic external synth support, a much
better help system (Logic has none) and it runs on both PCs and Macs. (I
prefer the PC platform.)

Its cons are that MIDI editing is slightly less efficient (for me), included
plug-ins had poor user interfaces compared to Logic. By that I mean they
were harder to adjust.

Logic's pros are fantastic flexibility, MIDI editing that is second to none
(for me), and a workflow that is very productive (once learned).

Its cons are steep learning curve, very poor support for external sound
modules and synths, no help system.

Sonar, although the most stable of the three in my experience, is just a
slight bit behind in MIDI editing than the other two. It's workflow is very
nice though and if you are open to working on a PC, that might just be what
makes the difference for you.

If you buy Logic, you can get the Cubase competitive upgrade for $300 and I
suspect there is a competitive upgrade for Sonar too. If you can at all
afford it, you should try all three. That is the only way to really know
which is best for you.

Kamm

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

2005-01-27 by GAmoore@aol.com

> - Which One plays best with others - (3rd party apps / plugs etc.)...?

Your guess is as good as mine. Which tool do you blame when something goes
wrong, the exporter or the importer?


Some of the others allow VST plugs - and various things are only available in VST form.

Re: [Logic_Cafe] Comparing The Basics - Logic VS the Competition

2005-01-27 by Eddie Sullivan

On Wednesday, January 26, 2005, at 03:45 PM, revDAVE wrote:

>
> I'm curious, for those who have been able to compare Logic to another 
> major
> Midi/Audio App like D.P., ProTools LE (Non-TDM to keep it a fair
> comparison), Cubase or Sonar etc...


I use DP and Logic regularly, and I'm also comfortable in ProTools. 
There is no 'best.' You can pretty much do the same types of things in 
all of them. It's a matter of personal preference. On this list you 
will most likely have folks who swear by Logic. It's a Logic users 
group.

>
> - Which one would you say has the best sounding overall built-in (non- 
> 3rd
> party) DSP plug-ins  (Eq - compressors - delays - verbs etc.) ?

All of them have very unique, useable built in effects. And there are 
very useable 3rd party effects for all of them.


>
> - Which one would make the best sounding mix using only it's own (non- 
> 3rd
> party) tools? (This would also include stereo imaging / timing issues 
> etc.)

How the mix comes out is much more about you than the software.


>
> - Which One is Less Painful to work with? - (pick your poison)...?

They all have plusses and minuses.



>
> - Which One plays best with others - (3rd party apps / plugs etc.)...?


They all play very well with others.

Eddie
IMS

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