Mellotronists

jeffc@... wrote:

> from the page at:
> http://egrefin.free.fr/eng/mellotron/markVIE.html
> [also stated at www.mellotron.com]
>
> i see this quoted:
> A brand new tape frame has been created. It is lighter and stronger, and
> it allows to play longer tapes, which advances the time of playing by 20%.
>
> so i would have to assume that this "longer tape" precludes the use of
> the original recordings, since they were limited to the "old" length?
>
> am i missing something obvious here?
>
> how does the new tape frame "handle" the older short tapes tension-wise?
>
> if this has all been addressed before, sorry, i don't recall it.
> [but i am old and senile (obvious to anyone that has met me)]    ...jeff

__________________________________________________________________

Hi Jeff and gang,     Mellotron.Com released the new frame around
the same time as the MK-VI, in late 1990's.    Older tapes (8 sec.)
will do fine in new frames, but not conversely.

Check with Shane Trimble in your area, Jeff. He has a new frame
inside his #432 "LoveTron."     Some older M400 owners have
reported a bit of interference with the floor-pan and bolts for feet.
The MK-VI is two inches higher and therefore not an issue w. frames.

Cheers, - JK  (old Trons,old frames, old cars,old collectibles,old socks......)

Markus Resch wrote:

>  Hi! Some info on the "new" frames. The first new frames from Mellotron
> Archives were made in 1993 and Dave was selling them in late 1993. The MkVI
> was introduced in early 1999. I do not know what exactly JK means by "Older
> tapes (8 sec.) will do fine in new frames, but not conversely", but the new
> tapes from mellotron.com have been working fine in the old frames since 1990,
> and continue to do so. Of course old tapes can be fitted in the new frames.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Greetings Markus and Everyone,
>
> "Older tapes (8 sec.) will do fine in new frames, but not conversely"
> means exactly that.      Older tapes with their standard length
> of 72 inches have no problem in the new longer frames designed by
> Mellotron.Com
> in 1993 or whenever......Of course old tapes can be fitted in the new frames.
>
> However, longer-length tapes (9.5-10 sec.) from Mellotron.Com will not
> operate too well in older/original M400 frames. Insufficient spring
> return tension in older/shorter frames , purely by design .
>
> I still use Sound Sales tapes (circa 1978) fitted within UK made
> M400 tape frame.  Only a slight problem with uneven rippled edges on some
> tapes.
> This was due to their tape cutting machine losing sharpness and accuracy of
> width.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
>   Concerning the original question: Since the tapes from Mellotron Archives
> are delivered with extra length it's very easy to adapt them to the needed
> playing time, up to 10 secs in a MkVI frame. Of course that only makes sense
> with the sounds that are that long, like the Oboe for example. Longer tapes
> make both old and new frames a bit less convenient to handle, so it's
> basically up to the user to decide.    Best   ,   Markus Resch,   Mellotron
> Archives
>
> _____________________________________________________________________________
>
> Agreed,Markus. Congrats on your 100th MK-VI.  How's the Mellotron
> documentary progressing ? "Hi" to  Dianna......
>
> Best,  Jerry Korb,    Mellotron Ranch

On Thu, 18 May 2006, Markus Resch wrote:


thanks markus.
that answers my questions completely.

again, sorry if this has already been addressed, i just didn't
recall the issue coming up, and i thought the answer could be
of use to everyone on the list [which is why i asked here instead
of via private email].

thanks!
...jeff

> Hi!
>
> Some info on the "new" frames.
>
> The first new frames from Mellotron Archives were made in 1993 and Dave
> was selling them in late 1993. The MkVI was introduced in early 1999.
>
> I do not know what exactly JK means by "Older tapes (8 sec.) will do
> fine in new frames, but not conversely", but the new tapes from
> mellotron.com have been working fine in the old frames since 1990, and
> continue to do so. Of course old tapes can be fitted in the new frames.
>
> Concerning the original question: Since the tapes from Mellotron
> Archives are delivered with extra length it's very easy to adapt them to
> the needed playing time, up to 10 secs in a MkVI frame. Of course that
> only makes sense with the sounds that are that long, like the Oboe for
> example.
>
> Longer tapes make both old and new frames a bit less convenient to
> handle, so it's basically up to the user to decide.
>
> Best
>
> Markus Resch
> Mellotron Archives
>

Markus Resch wrote:

>  Hi! I am sorry, JK, but you make it sound like tapes from Mellotron Archives
> don't work in the old frames. This is not the case. We've sold hundreds and
> hundreds of tapes for old tape frames since 1990 and the customers have been
> pleased with the option to shorten the tapes to ca 7 seconds (like most of the
> old frames) or put in a bit more tape (like \ufffdnglag\ufffdrd for instance).Like I
> said, in the new frames you can put in even more tape length.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> Markus,   There is a big difference between "don't work" and "don't
> work properly" .   If your customers install  the longer MA tapes in
> the old frames without proper adjustments (which I personally saw
> in three instances) ,  of course they won't return properly.  But this is
> a situation caused by the end-user  only, not the supplier of tapes.
>
> In your own words, "Longer tapes make both old and new frames
> a bit less convenient to handle, so it's basically up to the user to decide."
>
> Enough said about this topic.
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>
>   Making tapes for old frames was the main thing when David Kean started out
> in 1990, making tapes for old and neglected machines, resurrecting them when
> nobody else was doing this. Best  , Markus
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>
> We all know the history of MA very well, Markus.  I too possess
> Dave's videotapes of 1991-1992 and M400 manual ,along with OEM  and
> new (SMS4MR) parts supplied by DK from 1997-1998 .  Dave Kean followed
> in the footsteps of entrepreneurs like Bill Eberline and his colleagues
> in the USA of  1976-1986 .   I spent many,many hours visiting Sound Sales'
> operations long ago and sharing dinners/beers with Bill/Nancy in their
> home multiple occasions.  If my life path had taken a different direction in
> 1989, it easily could have been "JK"  instead of DK to revive Mellotron
> interest in the USA and elsewhere .   But history cannot be rewritten .
> It is what it is.....
>
>
> It is good for Mellotrons worldwide that more people choose to resurrect
> and build them in recent years. Product improvement, exchange of
> ideas/tech-tips
> such as  this List, etc.  While MA and Streetly are considered competitors
> business-wise, both organizations are following their own  paths for the
> same goal.  To ensure the Mellotron's future in this new century .
>
> Viva Mellotron !           -- Jerry Korb at the Mellotron Ranch

In a message dated 18/05/2006 11:42:37 GMT Standard Time,  
jkorb@... writes:

If my  life path had taken a different direction in 
1989, it easily could  have been "JK"  instead of DK to revive Mellotron 
interest in  the USA and elsewhere .   But history cannot be rewritten  .


Likewise, if JB and myself had met only a few months earlier, things  would 
have been very different.  To assume that only one person had any  interest in 
maintaining the mellotron legacy is a tad arrogant.
 
Martin
 
STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All things Mellotronic
_www.mellotronics.co.uk_ (http://www.mellotronics.co.uk/) 
www.mellotronics.com

US East Coast  Agent - Jimmy Moore _JMoore6397_ (mailto:JMoore6397) @...
US West Coast Agent - Paul  Cox _pjc56@..._ 
(mailto:pjc56@...)

It's not an assumption. It's a fact- ONE guy stepped
up to the plate with a 50,000.00 investment to rescue
the tapes from a leaking attic in Sutton Coldfield.
The main parts inventory was headed for a dump in
Destin Florida. BOTH of the previous companies had
gone BANKRUPT trying to support the old instruments. 

Woulda, shoulda, coulda isn't worth a shilling, but
you have to give credit (yes even you Martin) to the
guy for trying something so risky just for the love of
the instrument. 

He did the same thing for the Gleeman Pentaphonic, ran
a huge demographic study and supplied the early
prototypes for the Moog Vogager, financed the initial
run of 200e modules from Buchla, rescued the Emu
document archive from a trash heap. Where is the FIRST
portable synth (EMS Putney)? Calgary. Rolling Stones
Moblie? Calgary. ALL at a NON-profit studio for ANYONE
to use. 

We alienated the wrong crew on this list and if you
and John had NEVER met or if Les hadn't passed away,
he and Kean would probably still be friends. And don't
give me a bunch of grief about "stirring up the pot"
here kids...JK, Markus and Martin are spinning the
topic to their own ends, this MY 2 bits. I am saying
it because DK is sitting on BAGS of red lense caps, MK
II front plates, knobs, blah blah blah and the guys on
this list have made that stuff un-available to us with
such a lack of TOLERANCE, respect, humor and a blind
disregard of the FACTS. 

Thank God for the stuff that has been written down
elsewhere because the empirical body of knowledge that
Terry Kelley, Steve Frothingham, Brian Kehew, Gary
Hahlbeck, Jim Herbst, Jim Blair, Damon Fox, Ron
Skinner and DK could have brought to this list will
forever be lost now. Pity.

Mark.



--- tronbros@... wrote:

>  
>  
> In a message dated 18/05/2006 11:42:37 GMT Standard
> Time,  
> jkorb@... writes:
> 
> If my  life path had taken a different direction in 
> 1989, it easily could  have been "JK"  instead of DK
> to revive Mellotron 
> interest in  the USA and elsewhere .   But history
> cannot be rewritten  .
> 
> 
> Likewise, if JB and myself had met only a few months
> earlier, things  would 
> have been very different.  To assume that only one
> person had any  interest in 
> maintaining the mellotron legacy is a tad arrogant.
>  
> Martin
>  
> STREETLY ELECTRONICS - All things Mellotronic
> _www.mellotronics.co.uk_
> (http://www.mellotronics.co.uk/) 
> www.mellotronics.com
> 
> US East Coast  Agent - Jimmy Moore _JMoore6397_
> (mailto:JMoore6397) @...
> US West Coast Agent - Paul  Cox
> _pjc56@..._ 
> (mailto:pjc56@...) 
> 


__________________________________________________
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You know what puzzles me every time one of these debates starts?

NOBODY can really be making enough money from Mellotron manufacture and 
restoration to justify all of the rancor that oozes out occasionally.  I 
could understand it if we were talking about 
country-manor-with-a-Bentley-and-a-Feadship-and-a-LearJet-as-well-as-a-vacation-home-on-the-Riviera 
kind of money, but that didn't happen back when Mellotrons were a big dog in 
the keyboard world, and seems far less likely to happen today.  It seems 
more like a Stradivarius labor-of-love kind of business than a crank-'em-out 
Korg Triton kind of a business and even if there was only ONE source for 
Mellotron development, manufacture, and life-support it would still be 
difficult to make a financially rewarding living at it.  These things aren't 
exactly amenable to assembly-line business models, and with as 
labor-intensive as I would imagine their construction to be, it will always 
be a cottage industry with a real boutique kind of cachet.  I have utmost 
respect for everybody that contributes to the continued legacy of these 
noble instruments and it is a shame that there is so much baggage that has 
the potential to damage their continuing story.

Sincerely,
Rodney King

You just answered your own question. The market IS
small, the time required to service, R&D new
parts/instruments, (do you have ANY idea how much it
costs in legal fees just to secure a trademark??.
Getting machines shops and large manufacturers like
Kluge to make your small little production runs 
etc is still as big a job(just fewer people doing it)
as it is for Korg et al. Would YOU go into a recently
twice failed business, spend your last dime, risk your
family's future for a business that is likely to have
INSTANT competition from the guy your bought it from
IF you have any success??? No. I bet you wouldn't. And
neither would Jerry Korb, and neither would Paul
McCartney, and and and and....

That's the problem Rodney.




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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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I'm sure that wasn't intended to be as disrespectful and condescending is it 
appeared to be, right?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mark kasian" <easle12@...>
To: "jonesalley" <jonesalley@...>; "Mellotronists" 
<Mellotronists@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Mellotronists] question......New Frame,Longer Tapes


> You just answered your own question. The market IS
> small, the time required to service, R&D new
> parts/instruments, (do you have ANY idea how much it
> costs in legal fees just to secure a trademark??.
> Getting machines shops and large manufacturers like
> Kluge to make your small little production runs
> etc is still as big a job(just fewer people doing it)
> as it is for Korg et al. Would YOU go into a recently
> twice failed business, spend your last dime, risk your
> family's future for a business that is likely to have
> INSTANT competition from the guy your bought it from
> IF you have any success??? No. I bet you wouldn't. And
> neither would Jerry Korb, and neither would Paul
> McCartney, and and and and....
>
> That's the problem Rodney.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

In a message dated 5/18/2006 10:47:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
jonesalley@... writes:

You know  what puzzles me every time one of these debates starts?

NOBODY can  really be making enough money from Mellotron manufacture and 
restoration  to justify all of the rancor that oozes out occasionally.  I 
could  understand it if we were talking about  
country-manor-with-a-Bentley-and-a-Feadship-and-a-LearJet-as-well-as-a-vacatio
n-home-on-the-Riviera  
kind of money, but that didn't happen back when Mellotrons were a big dog  in 
the keyboard world, and seems far less likely to happen today.  It  seems 
more like a Stradivarius labor-of-love kind of business than a  crank-'em-out 
Korg Triton kind of a business and even if there was only  ONE source for 
Mellotron development, manufacture, and life-support it  would still be 
difficult to make a financially rewarding living at  it.  These things aren't 
exactly amenable to assembly-line business  models, and with as 
labor-intensive as I would imagine their construction  to be, it will always 
be a cottage industry with a real boutique kind of  cachet.  I have utmost 
respect for everybody that contributes to the  continued legacy of these 
noble instruments and it is a shame that there  is so much baggage that has 
the potential to damage their continuing  story.

Sincerely,
Rodney King 



Dear Rodney,
 
Let's all pray for their continued survival. After all, it's hard to beat a  
real Mellotron.