QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hi Roy,

I'm getting confused here : QTR 2.3 "allows you to create a custom
> grayscale ICC print profile.  This is exactly like the color 
profiling systems
> -- print out a target without CMS, read the target data, make a 
profile to
> be used for printing."

My understanding of it was that the BW profile was not an "full" 
output one meaning oppositely to a traditional color one it maps gray 
value inside the gray lab you also generated but is then processed 
trough QTR that does the printer driving. In short to drive the 
printer through the OEM driver you do need a RVB profile. And I thus 
understood this provides additional faetures in terms of softproofing.

So am I correct assuming now that 2.3 allows not to go for one 
ink/paper setting for each combinaison but just a single one (generic 
linearized one) and then the profiles handle the various possible 
ink/paper situations ? This is what color prolifing would do (adding 
linearization in the RVB outpout workflow). If so then comes a  
question : do you still need the grey space ? L should be the same 
axis in a color and a monochrome space.  

Well, in short I feel I did not understand it all...

Olivier


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> Hi Oliver,
> 
> I haven't used the standard PiezoBW ICC workflow or the iQuads so
> I can't comment directly to those.
> 
> QTR has always worked by making "curves" or "QTR profiles" that tell
> exactly how much of each ink is used for each of the 256 possible 
gray values.
> These are completely different from ICC profiles.  They are just 
internal to
> QTR -- not connected to the color management system.  These QTR 
profiles
> have always been linearized to a straightline in Lab (L*) units.   
> 
> Over the last two releases I've introduced methods to take 
advantage of
> the color management system to connect the embedded profile space 
> of the data file with the "standardized" QTR linearization.  This 
has improved
> the screen to print matching considerably.
> 
> The 2.2 release has two generic ICC print profiles for matte paper 
and photo
> paper.  While they are generic since the QTR linearization is 
standardized
> they work quite well in most cases.  The latest release 2.3 which 
is still
> listed as beta has gone one step further to allow you to create a 
custom
> grayscale ICC print profile.  This is exactly like the color 
profiling systems
> -- print out a target without CMS, read the target data, make a 
profile to
> be used for printing.
> 
> The K7 information you see on inkjetmall is mainly providing the 
QTR profiles
> to give a standard linearized grayscale output with their inks.  
> The ICC profile stuff is part of the QTR package -- you would get 
to decide
> how customized you want to go.
> 
> Roy
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "odesmais" <odesmais@y...> 
wrote:
> > Hi Roy, 
> > 
> > I know we had that discussion on private mails. I was just 
> > mentionning that oppositely to what the Piezo site claims PiezoBW 
ICC 
> > is not "perfect" at all out of the box. iQuads might offer a 
better 
> > option, but personally I'd rather make my own profile, test them, 
> > edit them if necessary... This is what I do for color printing 
and 
> > they are goods enough to have me produce satisfactory results. 
Toned 
> > BW prints I'm not interested which explained why I went for 
Piezo : 
> > pure monochrome prints with no metamerism with smooth 
transistions. 
> > The last expectation is not met. Working on PC and being used to 
> > produce with a (quite) simple color managed worklow I was 
expected a 
> > lot from the BW ICC. 
> > 
> > I'll test the BW ICC editing (testing also the softproofing once 
the 
> > profile is edited) and if this fails QTR will be my only left 
option. 
> > I've never use it but I'll learn...
> > 
> > BTW, I have read the K7 presentation page on Inkjet Mall, but it 
> > seems there's no mention about "real" profiles. They suggest to 
use 
> > QTR and some sort of profiles but the recommendation of using QTR 
> > makes me feel they do not provide actual output profiles.
> > 
> > Thanks for having created this great software.
> > 
> > Olivier
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> 
wrote:
> > > 
> > > The piezoICC profiles are pretty special and at this point 
creating 
> > custom
> > > version of them is dependent on proprietary software.  I 
imagine 
> > that's
> > > what you get with iQuads.
> > > 
> > > Using QTR is a totally different approach -- different printer 
> > driver,
> > > different profiles and different workflow.  This would however 
allow
> > > lots of custom control that you could use the Eye-One for.
> > > 
> > > Roy
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "odesmais" <odesmais@y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > > I work on a 1280.
> > > > I do have a spectro.
> > > > If YOU know how do produce real BW profiles comparable to the 
> > Piezo 
> > > > ones which are RVB but output grayscale with a quadtone 
printer 
> > > > without any RIP straight out of PS on a PC, please share it 
with 
> > > > those of us who are also trying this way to produce BW prints.
> > > > 
> > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Corbett" 
> > <richard@r...> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > ---- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: "odesmais" <odesmais@y...>
> > > > > To: <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 4:57 PM
> > > > > Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Piezography
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Because, and this is the purpose of QTR, the profiles 
shipped 
> > with
> > > > > > PiezoBW ICC are generic. You have the possibility to ask 
> > (pay) for
> > > > > > custom made one that will then bring out the same 
results. I 
> > have 
> > > > not
> > > > > > tested this service, but having PiezoBW ICC, the output 
with 
> > the
> > > > > > generic profile is really, but really poor. Well, like 
canned 
> > > > color
> > > > > > profiles are out of the box. The grayscale is not smooth 
at 
> > all.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What printer are you using then?
> > > > > 
> > > > > > The use of ICC IMHO in a great thing under windows, all 
in 
> > done in
> > > > > > PS. But again you have to get custom made profiles that 
add 
> > $150 
> > > > for
> > > > > > 3 of them. I don't like this idea : 1) because the kit is 
> > already
> > > > > > well priced, 2) because if you want more than 3 papers 
you 
> > add 
> > > > again
> > > > > > $150 3)because when you do quadtone printing you often do 
> > also 
> > > > color
> > > > > > prints and usely have some profiler available you would 
like 
> > to be
> > > > > > able to use to get the most out of your equipment.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If you don't have custom made profiles how on earth do you 
> > expect 
> > > > to get the 
> > > > > best out of any printer/ink combination
> > > > > 
> > > > > These inks are going to be for those among us who wish to 
> > produce 
> > > > the very 
> > > > > best best, which by definition means profiling one's own 
> > particular 
> > > > printer.
> > > > > If you can't or won't equip yourself with a 
spectrophotometer 
> > and a 
> > > > > linearisation capable RIP then you cannot be a serious B&W 
man.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Richard 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ---
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