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2012-12-10 by ascherjim
For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated.
2012-12-11 by john
Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@...> wrote:
> > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. >
2012-12-11 by ascherjim
I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > >
2012-12-11 by john
Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@...> wrote:
> > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > >
2012-12-11 by ascherjim
You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-12 by john
Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@...> wrote:
> > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-12 by ascherjim
My monitor is calibrated (with Eye-One Match-3). I think I've read most of the articles. Recently, on one recommendation, I tried putting various neutral density filters over the screen, to reduce the monitor's brightness in line with the printer output. Nothing really works. I'm not totally giving up. I just wish LR4 had retained the basic Brightness control. (I'm not the only one who's complained about this feature change in the forums.) --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-12 by ascherjim
John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-12 by john
I feel your pain. It is so frustrating when so called "improvements" mess up your workflow. Seems to be an unending problem in the digital realm. I guess it always has been an issue (I still remember my legs buckling when my local store told me Oriental Seagull was no more). But with digital it seems to be constant. Adding a curve, I would simply place a point in the middle and pull it up a little. It would probably be an iterative process, but I bet you would get the feel for it really fast. I would think the effect would be similar to the brightness slider. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@...> wrote:
> > John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-12 by ascherjim
John: My curve in QTR is a .qdif. Where do I go in the software to place a point in the middle of the curve to pull it up? I'm using a three-ink curve. Thanks much for your time and advice. Jim --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > I feel your pain. It is so frustrating when so called "improvements" mess up your workflow. Seems to be an unending problem in the digital realm. I guess it always has been an issue (I still remember my legs buckling when my local store told me Oriental Seagull was no more). But with digital it seems to be constant. > Adding a curve, I would simply place a point in the middle and pull it up a little. It would probably be an iterative process, but I bet you would get the feel for it really fast. I would think the effect would be similar to the brightness slider. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@...m, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-13 by john
I'm sorry. I wasn't clear in what I meant. I mean apply a tone curve in Lightroom before you export it to compensate for the difference between your editing on the screen and what your prints look like. You could also consider making an ICC based on your qtr output which you could use to softproof and adjust according to that. For me at the end of the day the print is the acid test, so no matter what processes Im using, I make a lot of hard proofs. I understand how frustrating it is because you had a system that was working for you. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@...> wrote:
> > John: My curve in QTR is a .qdif. Where do I go in the software to place a point in the middle of the curve to pull it up? I'm using a three-ink curve. Thanks much for your time and advice. Jim > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > I feel your pain. It is so frustrating when so called "improvements" mess up your workflow. Seems to be an unending problem in the digital realm. I guess it always has been an issue (I still remember my legs buckling when my local store told me Oriental Seagull was no more). But with digital it seems to be constant. > > Adding a curve, I would simply place a point in the middle and pull it up a little. It would probably be an iterative process, but I bet you would get the feel for it really fast. I would think the effect would be similar to the brightness slider. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-13 by ascherjim
John: I've recently been a participant in a partially related thread in the Luminous Landscape forum, to which I've just posted the following comment (which is the result of the path you set me on, and for which I'm most appreciative): "...I've belatedly discovered that QTR has similar dual brightness sliders, one labeled "Gamma," which increases the brightness of mid-tones, and the other labeled "Ink Tone, which brightens the shadows. And seemingly (miracles of all miracles), when these two sliders are each set at maximum, my printing with QTR results in a print on paper almost exactly matching the tones of the image on my monitor. More fine tuning of the sliders may be necessary, but I am thinking I might well splurge and upgrade now to LR 4...." Again, many thanks. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > I'm sorry. I wasn't clear in what I meant. I mean apply a tone curve in Lightroom before you export it to compensate for the difference between your editing on the screen and what your prints look like. You could also consider making an ICC based on your qtr output which you could use to softproof and adjust according to that. For me at the end of the day the print is the acid test, so no matter what processes Im using, I make a lot of hard proofs. I understand how frustrating it is because you had a system that was working for you. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > John: My curve in QTR is a .qdif. Where do I go in the software to place a point in the middle of the curve to pull it up? I'm using a three-ink curve. Thanks much for your time and advice. Jim > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > I feel your pain. It is so frustrating when so called "improvements" mess up your workflow. Seems to be an unending problem in the digital realm. I guess it always has been an issue (I still remember my legs buckling when my local store told me Oriental Seagull was no more). But with digital it seems to be constant. > > > Adding a curve, I would simply place a point in the middle and pull it up a little. It would probably be an iterative process, but I bet you would get the feel for it really fast. I would think the effect would be similar to the brightness slider. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-13 by john
I saw your thread on LuLa last night after I posted this. I am happy you found your solution. I didn't think of those sliders because I never use them. Anyway, I am glad you can get back to printing. --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@...> wrote:
> > John: I've recently been a participant in a partially related thread in the Luminous Landscape forum, to which I've just posted the following comment (which is the result of the path you set me on, and for which I'm most appreciative): > > "...I've belatedly discovered that QTR has similar dual brightness sliders, one labeled "Gamma," which increases the brightness of mid-tones, and the other labeled "Ink Tone, which brightens the shadows. And seemingly (miracles of all miracles), when these two sliders are each set at maximum, my printing with QTR results in a print on paper almost exactly matching the tones of the image on my monitor. More fine tuning of the sliders may be necessary, but I am thinking I might well splurge and upgrade now to LR 4...." > > Again, many thanks. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > I'm sorry. I wasn't clear in what I meant. I mean apply a tone curve in Lightroom before you export it to compensate for the difference between your editing on the screen and what your prints look like. You could also consider making an ICC based on your qtr output which you could use to softproof and adjust according to that. For me at the end of the day the print is the acid test, so no matter what processes Im using, I make a lot of hard proofs. I understand how frustrating it is because you had a system that was working for you. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > John: My curve in QTR is a .qdif. Where do I go in the software to place a point in the middle of the curve to pull it up? I'm using a three-ink curve. Thanks much for your time and advice. Jim > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel your pain. It is so frustrating when so called "improvements" mess up your workflow. Seems to be an unending problem in the digital realm. I guess it always has been an issue (I still remember my legs buckling when my local store told me Oriental Seagull was no more). But with digital it seems to be constant. > > > > Adding a curve, I would simply place a point in the middle and pull it up a little. It would probably be an iterative process, but I bet you would get the feel for it really fast. I would think the effect would be similar to the brightness slider. > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2012-12-14 by ascherjim
John: Again, many thanks for your extremely helpful thoughts and guidance. Jim --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@...> wrote:
> > I saw your thread on LuLa last night after I posted this. I am happy you found your solution. I didn't think of those sliders because I never use them. Anyway, I am glad you can get back to printing. > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > John: I've recently been a participant in a partially related thread in the Luminous Landscape forum, to which I've just posted the following comment (which is the result of the path you set me on, and for which I'm most appreciative): > > > > "...I've belatedly discovered that QTR has similar dual brightness sliders, one labeled "Gamma," which increases the brightness of mid-tones, and the other labeled "Ink Tone, which brightens the shadows. And seemingly (miracles of all miracles), when these two sliders are each set at maximum, my printing with QTR results in a print on paper almost exactly matching the tones of the image on my monitor. More fine tuning of the sliders may be necessary, but I am thinking I might well splurge and upgrade now to LR 4...." > > > > Again, many thanks. > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm sorry. I wasn't clear in what I meant. I mean apply a tone curve in Lightroom before you export it to compensate for the difference between your editing on the screen and what your prints look like. You could also consider making an ICC based on your qtr output which you could use to softproof and adjust according to that. For me at the end of the day the print is the acid test, so no matter what processes Im using, I make a lot of hard proofs. I understand how frustrating it is because you had a system that was working for you. > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > John: My curve in QTR is a .qdif. Where do I go in the software to place a point in the middle of the curve to pull it up? I'm using a three-ink curve. Thanks much for your time and advice. Jim > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel your pain. It is so frustrating when so called "improvements" mess up your workflow. Seems to be an unending problem in the digital realm. I guess it always has been an issue (I still remember my legs buckling when my local store told me Oriental Seagull was no more). But with digital it seems to be constant. > > > > > Adding a curve, I would simply place a point in the middle and pull it up a little. It would probably be an iterative process, but I bet you would get the feel for it really fast. I would think the effect would be similar to the brightness slider. > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > John: Further thought (and query) regarding your suggestion "Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output." How do I do this, while retaining the values (relationships) of my present QTR curve? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is your monitor calibrated? Even if it is it sounds like it is too bright. There are many articles online about matching monitor and print. If you can get your monitor to reasonably your your output, you can skip the brightening step. Otherwise, how about using a curve to brighten the file before output. I wouldn't give up on lr4 to easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've touched on the heart of my problem. My printer prints dark. After editing my photo in Lightroom on the monitor, I must then brighten it a certain amount to get it to print with the same density on the printer, which I then export to QTR for the actual printing. Lightroom 3.6 has the Brightness slider as a basic control which I employ for this brightening purpose. Lightroom 4 has moved this basic Brightness slider to its print function, thereby obviating my ability to export the brightened edit to QTR for printing. (Trust this isn't too confusing.) So, I guess if I want to continue printing with QTR I must stick with LR 3.6 -- although I agree that LR 4 has greatly improved the previous Lightroom processing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not just export from Lightroom 4 and print using QTR. I have only used lightroom 4 but from what I hear, the upgrades in the raw processing alone would be worth it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use Windows and I suspect you're right about the incompatibility between QTR curves and Lightroom. And I'm not willing to switch to Mac to effect this (not that that's what you're in any way suggesting I do). So, I guess I'll just continue using my Lightroom 3.6, as I don't want to give up the ease and success I've had all these years with QTR. Many thanks, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@...m, "john" <zonepeter@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mac or windows? On a Mac QTR is available through lightroom. If you are on windows, QTR is stand alone. You would not be able to print through lightroom, I don't think. You could come up with your preferred method or printing and then make a QTR icc to fine tune it and soft proof. Be sure to use ICCRGB for lightroom. > > > > > > > > > > > Do not confuse QTR curves used in QTR and QTR ICC profiles. They are separate and not really interchangeable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "ascherjim" <ascherjim@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For several years now I have been printing through QTR my preferred B&W prints, utilizing a generic QTR curve I've modified. To try out some of the possible advantages of printing options now available in Lightroom 4, I would like to be able to convert my preferred QTR curve to an ICC format that LR 4 would recognize for printing purposes. How could I do this, without starting entirely from scratch? Any advice would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >