QTR-Quadtone RIP

Am I the only one who thinks that the cool curve for enhanced matte is not cold enough?

Have been happily printing with the Epson 4000 driver, not icc, and getting very cold 
blacks, with no metamerism that I see and of course no color cast (by public acclaim).

Maybe I am just used to the coldness, but I like the stark effect.

The sliders between curves in QTR are neat though.

Carl has suggested that I edit the cool curve so I will be trying that, though I know almost 
nothing about it.

I would characterize the cool curve as neutral to very slightly warm.

So I am curious what you all think
Scott

Earlier versions of Quadprofile would not let you control the tone of 
the shadows so the midtones and highlights would end up cool while the 
shadows would still have the warm tone of the UC MK ink.

With the last versions of Quadprofile for PC we've added support for 
using any ink to control any other ink.

I did a quick test here:
http://download.petraflux.com/UC-EEnhMatte-verycool.zip (2.07kb)

I doubled the strength of the LC and LM inks and added C and M inks to 
the black curve at the same strength as the LC and LM inks. I haven't 
actually tested the curve since I'm not near my printer right now. It 
will most likely be too dense since it's not relinearized, but let me 
know if it's close to what you want.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no


Scott Graham wrote:

> 
> Am I the only one who thinks that the cool curve for enhanced matte is not cold enough?
> 
> Have been happily printing with the Epson 4000 driver, not icc, and getting very cold 
> blacks, with no metamerism that I see and of course no color cast (by public acclaim).
> 
> Maybe I am just used to the coldness, but I like the stark effect.
> 
> The sliders between curves in QTR are neat though.
> 
> Carl has suggested that I edit the cool curve so I will be trying that, though I know almost 
> nothing about it.
> 
> I would characterize the cool curve as neutral to very slightly warm.
> 
> So I am curious what you all think
> Scott

Hi Dan,

Thank you for the quick response.  I forgot to mention that I am on a Mac, and of course 
have no idea how to install a new curve.  Do I just put it in the curve folder that came with 
QTR and use the curve install script to reinstall the whole thing?

Thanks
Scott
--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Staver <daniel@p...> wrote:

> Earlier versions of Quadprofile would not let you control the tone of 
> the shadows so the midtones and highlights would end up cool while the 
> shadows would still have the warm tone of the UC MK ink.
> 
> With the last versions of Quadprofile for PC we've added support for 
> using any ink to control any other ink.
> 
> I did a quick test here:
> http://download.petraflux.com/UC-EEnhMatte-verycool.zip (2.07kb)
> 
> I doubled the strength of the LC and LM inks and added C and M inks to 
> the black curve at the same strength as the LC and LM inks. I haven't 
> actually tested the curve since I'm not near my printer right now. It 
> will most likely be too dense since it's not relinearized, but let me 
> know if it's close to what you want.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>

I'm on a PC and have no idea how to install a curve on a Mac. The .quad
file is the same on both platforms though, so if you can put it in the
right location it should work for you.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> Thank you for the quick response.  I forgot to mention that I am on a
> Mac, and of course have no idea how to install a new curve.  Do I
> just put it in the curve folder that came with QTR and use the curve
> install script to reinstall the whole thing?

Scott,

On looking at Daniel's download, he's got two files.    A .qidf  and a 
.quad

1) You can just drag the .quad to  CurveDropBox/Quad4000   and 
Run-Install-Curves

or

2) Make yourself a folder MyQuad4000.  Put the .qidf in it and rename 
.qidf to .txt
     Copy the Install4000  from the main distribution.
    Just run Install4000 now, it installs any curves (.txt files) in the 
same folder.
    This sets you up to be able to edit the .txt file and do your own 
curve making.

Roy


On Wednesday, April 13, 2005, at 12:09  PM, Daniel Staver wrote:

>
> I'm on a PC and have no idea how to install a curve on a Mac. The .quad
> file is the same on both platforms though, so if you can put it in the
> right location it should work for you.
>
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
>
>> Thank you for the quick response.  I forgot to mention that I am on a
>> Mac, and of course have no idea how to install a new curve.  Do I
>> just put it in the curve folder that came with QTR and use the curve
>> install script to reinstall the whole thing?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
-
Roy Harrington
roy@...
Black & White Photo Gallery
http://www.harrington.com

Hi Roy,

so if one is writing a "curve" from scratch does one write a "curve descriptor file, .quad) 
and convert it to an "ink descriptor file" for actual use?  

except when I open a "curve" in "Profiles" that is apparently an "ink descriptor" file, the first 
line of it says "curve descriptor".  maybe I am too old for all this?

or what is the difference between a "curve descriptor" and an "ink descriptor"?

Aha!   reading pdf's as I write this: so is an "ink descriptor" file sort of the human readable 
form, and what I would write or edit, and the "curve descriptor" file the machine (printer) 
readable form?

and thanks for all the help
Scott

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Roy Harrington <roy@h...> wrote:

> 
> Scott,
> 
> On looking at Daniel's download, he's got two files.    A .qidf  and a 
> .quad
> 
> 1) You can just drag the .quad to  CurveDropBox/Quad4000   and 
> Run-Install-Curves
> 
> or
> 
> 2) Make yourself a folder MyQuad4000.  Put the .qidf in it and rename 
> .qidf to .txt
>      Copy the Install4000  from the main distribution.
>     Just run Install4000 now, it installs any curves (.txt files) in the 
> same folder.
>     This sets you up to be able to edit the .txt file and do your own 
> curve making.
> 
> Roy
> 
>

Scott I edited the cool curve for you. I just boosted the LC and LM Limit from 12 to 30. I 
haven't tested it though.

You could edit the file yourself or email me and I'll send you the file.

On the Mac....

Open the file - "UC-EEnhMatte-cool" - that's in "4000-UC" folder and change the LC and 
LM Limits as below:

LIMIT_K=
BOOST_K=55
LIMIT_C=0
LIMIT_M=0
LIMIT_Y=0
LIMIT_LC=30
LIMIT_LM=30
LIMIT_LK=36

Hi John and Dan,

I went with the lighter modification below as a start.  Installed it and tested.  The print 
comes out a bit blue which is great,

because I can easily blend it with the warm one to get just what I want.  And also because I 
just learned a ton.  :)  

It did make the print overall too dark though---as might be expected.  Is there an easy 
number to change for that? or just reduce the ink limit?

as a start will re edit the curve to an intermediate effect, maybe LC=20 or 25.  Likewise for 
LM.  

Bottom line is that blue is good, allows flexibility, and I am on my way.

Thanks
Scott

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@c...> wrote:

> 
> Scott I edited the cool curve for you. I just boosted the LC and LM Limit from 12 to 30. I 
> haven't tested it though.
> 
> You could edit the file yourself or email me and I'll send you the file.
> 
> On the Mac....
> 
> Open the file - "UC-EEnhMatte-cool" - that's in "4000-UC" folder and change the LC and 
> LM Limits as below:
> 
> LIMIT_K=
> BOOST_K=55
> LIMIT_C=0
> LIMIT_M=0
> LIMIT_Y=0
> LIMIT_LC=30
> LIMIT_LM=30
> LIMIT_LK=36

You can try to change GRAY_GAMMA (midtones), GRAY_SHADOW (shadows), and 
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT (highlights). Higher values make that part of the curve 
brighter, lower values darker. Gamma will usually stay between 1 and 2 
somewhere while the other two can be anything from 0 to 300 or possibly 
even more.

I honestly don't know how well it works to tweak these values with 
linearization in place. You're supposed to tweak them first and do the 
linearization as a last step. You can try and see how it works. If the 
results are horrible switch off linearization and try again. You can 
actually pretty good curves without linearizing. I've made a couple of 
curves which I haven't bothered to linearize simply because I already 
get great prints from them just with the adjustments mentioned above.

--
Daniel Staver
http://daniel.staver.no

> Hi John and Dan,
> 
> I went with the lighter modification below as a start.  Installed it and tested.  The print 
> comes out a bit blue which is great,
> 
> because I can easily blend it with the warm one to get just what I want.  And also because I 
> just learned a ton.  :)  
> 
> It did make the print overall too dark though---as might be expected.  Is there an easy 
> number to change for that? or just reduce the ink limit?
> 
> as a start will re edit the curve to an intermediate effect, maybe LC=20 or 25.  Likewise for 
> LM.  
> 
> Bottom line is that blue is good, allows flexibility, and I am on my way.

I did do the reduced modification of LC=LM=20 and it is about perfect, maybe slightly 
blue and a bit dark compared to the Epson driver.

Will next reduce LK a bit as you earlier suggested.  If that isn't perfect, will try the mods 
you suggest below.  I suspect that a bit less LK will make it great though cuz it is so close.

Interesting how ones opinion can change:  I had thought of the Epson driver print as very 
cold; now it looks a bit warm compared to LC=LM=20 with the "20" print being cold 
neutral.

or is the Epson cold neutral and the "20" print a bit blue?  sigh...

will take a bit of relooking as time passes to decide.  Both nice though ("to date")

Thanks
Scott

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Staver <daniel@p...> wrote:
> You can try to change GRAY_GAMMA (midtones), GRAY_SHADOW (shadows), and 
> GRAY_HIGHLIGHT (highlights). Higher values make that part of the curve 
> brighter, lower values darker. Gamma will usually stay between 1 and 2 
> somewhere while the other two can be anything from 0 to 300 or possibly 
> even more.
> 
> I honestly don't know how well it works to tweak these values with 
> linearization in place. You're supposed to tweak them first and do the 
> linearization as a last step. You can try and see how it works. If the 
> results are horrible switch off linearization and try again. You can 
> actually pretty good curves without linearizing. I've made a couple of 
> curves which I haven't bothered to linearize simply because I already 
> get great prints from them just with the adjustments mentioned above.
> 
> --
> Daniel Staver
> http://daniel.staver.no
> 
> 
> > Hi John and Dan,
> > 
> > I went with the lighter modification below "30 a s a start.  Installed it and tested.  The 
print 
> > comes out a bit blue which is great,
> > 
> > because I can easily blend it with the warm one to get just what I want.  And also 
because I 
> > just learned a ton.  :)  
> > 
> > It did make the print overall too dark though---as might be expected.  Is there an 
easy 
> > number to change for that? or just reduce the ink limit?
> > 
> > as a start will re edit the curve to an intermediate effect, maybe LC=20 or 25.  
Likewise for 

> > LM.  
> > 
> > Bottom line is that blue is good, allows flexibility, and I am on my way.