QTR-Quadtone RIP

Guys,

I am happy as a clam with the QuadTone RIP. I'm finally getting 
prints from my Epson 2200 that don't exhibit metamerism using Epson 
EM paper and the curves available on the RIP.I've found a mixed 
coolSE and Sepia produces a nice print.

A couple of people have pooh-poohed the EEM paper's archival quality 
because it tends to yellow. I guess I've noticed that, too. I sell 
my prints, so that is an issue for me.

My quesiton: What matte finish, fine art paper (whose curves are 
available on the QTR!) would you recommend? I read what people say 
on the Web, but you know how that goes. There are so many choices 
and it's pretty confusing. Also, who's a good vender for these kinds 
of fine art papers?

And could you let me know what the curve abbreviations are on the 
QTR. I've figured out Moab Entrada (is that a good one?). I notice 
that there are several choices in the ME paper -- weight, whiteness, 
etc. Do the QTR curves work for all those choices?

Essentially I need a good, high-white matte finish paper (letter and 
A3 sizes) that I can use my Epson 2200 matte black cartridge with. I 
work only in black and white. Cost, of course, is a consideration.

Fire away, experts!

Lee Permenter
New Market, Maryland

> Guys,
> 
> ...
>I've figured out Moab Entrada (is that a good one?)...

I use the Moab Entrada as my primary paper for B&W; but I use the 
Natural, 300 gr, as opposed to Bright White.  I like the final look, 
using a 70/30 cool/warm mix, with a 33 ink limit adj and a 6 gamma.  I 
got hooked on the creamy look of the Natural; now the Bright White 
looks too white to me.  I have not had any significant flaking, but I 
wave the paper around and then spray it with canned air before putting 
it the printer.  I tested it against HPR, Arches Infinity, Sommerset PI 
Velvet, etc, and just liked the sharp detail in the finished prints 
better.  You can buy sample packs from the various suppliers and try 
them out for yourself.

Al Benas

I've got some Moab Entrada I've yet to print with. Are you printing 
at 1440 or 2880?

Chris Hargens


> 
> I use the Moab Entrada as my primary paper for B&W; but I use the 
> Natural, 300 gr, as opposed to Bright White.  I like the final 
look, 
> using a 70/30 cool/warm mix, with a 33 ink limit adj and a 6 
gamma.  I 
> got hooked on the creamy look of the Natural; now the Bright White 
> looks too white to me.  I have not had any significant flaking, but 
I 
> wave the paper around and then spray it with canned air before 
putting 
> it the printer.  I tested it against HPR, Arches Infinity, 
Sommerset PI 
> Velvet, etc, and just liked the sharp detail in the finished prints 
> better.  You can buy sample packs from the various suppliers and 
try 

> them out for yourself.
> 
> Al Benas
>

atlex.com has very good prices on paper. Try the Epson Velvet Fine 
Art -- very good blacks. For a review of various papers, take a look 
at Clayton Jones site
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Chris Hargens


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "leepermenter" 
<leepermenter@y...> wrote:
>
> Guys,
> 
> I am happy as a clam with the QuadTone RIP. I'm finally getting 
> prints from my Epson 2200 that don't exhibit metamerism using Epson 
> EM paper and the curves available on the RIP.I've found a mixed 
> coolSE and Sepia produces a nice print.
> 
> A couple of people have pooh-poohed the EEM paper's archival 
quality 
> because it tends to yellow. I guess I've noticed that, too. I sell 
> my prints, so that is an issue for me.
> 
> My quesiton: What matte finish, fine art paper (whose curves are 
> available on the QTR!) would you recommend? I read what people say 
> on the Web, but you know how that goes. There are so many choices 
> and it's pretty confusing. Also, who's a good vender for these 
kinds 
> of fine art papers?
> 
> And could you let me know what the curve abbreviations are on the 
> QTR. I've figured out Moab Entrada (is that a good one?). I notice 
> that there are several choices in the ME paper -- weight, 
whiteness, 
> etc. Do the QTR curves work for all those choices?
> 
> Essentially I need a good, high-white matte finish paper (letter 
and 
> A3 sizes) that I can use my Epson 2200 matte black cartridge with. 
I 

> work only in black and white. Cost, of course, is a consideration.
> 
> Fire away, experts!
> 
> Lee Permenter
> New Market, Maryland
>

On Oct 8, 2005, at 7:51 PM, Chris Hargens wrote:

> I've got some Moab Entrada I've yet to print with. Are you printing
> at 1440 or 2880?
>
> Chris Hargens

Chris, along with the profile supplied by MOAB for printing directly  
from Photoshop, or other applications, they recommend the computer  
setting be "Enhanced Matte", assuming Epson, and that forces you into  
the highest resolution of 1440 - 2880 isn't an available option in  
the printer dialog.

I've printed some of my best color work on Entrada, and I also like  
the Natural finish. The "white" seems too (blue?) white for my  
tastes. And although they did recall a lot of this paper this summer  
for flaking I've not seen it in my workflow.

Alan

> Are you printing 
> at 1440 or 2880?
> 
> Chris Hargens
>

I'm printing at 1440 super.

Al Benas

I've come tot he conclusion that one of the problems with getting
non-neutral (or at least slightly unpleasant metamerism) despite using QTR
is caused by the interaction of the inks and the optical brighteners in
different lights. This is usually worst in any mix of tungsten and daylight.
As such I've narrowed my choice of papers down to this without optical
brighteners (or that seem to have minimal brighteners). Of course a side
effect of this seems to be that the OBA's lose their effectiveness over time
anyway and so many "bright white" papers become warmer anyway... Having no
OBA's means you know from the start more how the warmth of the paper/print
looks.

As such, despite using Photo Rag extensively I've found the following papers
work well:



Arches Infinity (my current favourite - and of course, the most expensive
possible choice...)

Red River Dourian Art 2-Sided (next beast favourite) - seems to have a small
amount of OBA's but it is very close to the Arches - great DMax, slightly
cooler (and double sided which means you can re-use duff prints for
testing) - a very nice paper

Entrada Natural (not too bad - used to have big flaking issues, okay DMax,
but not the  worlds greatest and has a "flop" I just don't like...).

Innova Soft Textured Art - not bad, a bit more texture than some

Innova Cold Pressed Art - nice if it wasn't soooo textured

(The Innova Photo Smooth Cotton is also pretty nice, despite the OBA's -
however Innova does it isn't as objectionable as most)

I'll interested to see what the new Crane Museo Max (or whatever it's
called) performs along these lines (I never really liked Museo)

I thought Hahnemuhle was going to make a non-OBA Photo Rag, which would be
very attractive, but I don't remember it ever showing up yet (William
Turner, which I don't think has OBA's, would be nice if it didn't flake if
you blink at it).


tim a

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Atherton" <tim@K...> wrote:

> Entrada Natural (not too bad - used to have big flaking issues, okay 
DMax, but not the  worlds greatest and has a "flop" I just don't 
like...).
> 

OK, I'll show my ignorance.  What's "flop"?

>(William Turner, which I don't think has OBA's, would be nice if it 
didn't flake if you blink at it).
> 

I've been using William Turner, 300 gr, for color work.  Been thinking 
about using it for some B&W if the texture is appropriate.  I use 
my "wave-it-around-and-blow-it-with-canned-air" routine prior to 
printing and, so far, it hasn't flaked.  Maybe, I've been lucky.

Al Benas

> > Entrada Natural (not too bad - used to have big flaking issues, okay
> DMax, but not the  worlds greatest and has a "flop" I just don't
> like...).
> >
>
> OK, I'll show my ignorance.  What's "flop"?

Although many prints are mounted and displayed in some way, often the prints
themselves are handled. In my case portfolio sets of prints get looked at by
curators and galleries and such. Most of them don't want mounted or matted
prints - they just want a set of loose prints.

Although the thickness/weight of a paper makes a difference, I find some
papers just have a nicer feel to them in the way they handle (and some
lighter weight papers from one brand can have a nicer feel than even heavier
weight ones from another) - that's what I call "flop" the way the prints
flops when you hold it. Entrada always flops the way a piece of damp card
would... :-)


tim

Great question. I'm not sure all of the responses thus far
have met your criteria of having ready made curves supplied
along with QTR, unless folks are using some other already
supplied curves that they haven't specified in thier responses.

Scott

leepermenter wrote:

>Guys,
>
>I am happy as a clam with the QuadTone RIP. I'm finally getting 
>prints from my Epson 2200 that don't exhibit metamerism using Epson 
>EM paper and the curves available on the RIP.I've found a mixed 
>coolSE and Sepia produces a nice print.
>
>A couple of people have pooh-poohed the EEM paper's archival quality 
>because it tends to yellow. I guess I've noticed that, too. I sell 
>my prints, so that is an issue for me.
>
>My quesiton: What matte finish, fine art paper (whose curves are 
>available on the QTR!) would you recommend? I read what people say 
>on the Web, but you know how that goes. There are so many choices 
>and it's pretty confusing. Also, who's a good vender for these kinds 
>of fine art papers?
>
>And could you let me know what the curve abbreviations are on the 
>QTR. I've figured out Moab Entrada (is that a good one?). I notice 
>that there are several choices in the ME paper -- weight, whiteness, 
>etc. Do the QTR curves work for all those choices?
>
>Essentially I need a good, high-white matte finish paper (letter and 
>A3 sizes) that I can use my Epson 2200 matte black cartridge with. I 
>work only in black and white. Cost, of course, is a consideration.
>
>Fire away, experts!
>
>Lee Permenter
>New Market, Maryland
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>  
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Atherton" <tim@K...> wrote:
>
> ... I find some papers just have a nicer feel to them in the way they 
> handle - that's what I call "flop" the way the prints flops when you 
> hold it.

Thanks; my education contiues. 


> Entrada always flops the way a piece of damp card would... 
> 

I never noticed that.  But I only use up to 11x17 on my 2200.

Al Benas

Dian at Hawk Mountain reminded me she had sent me some papers when I was
looking at the non-OBA ones available.

I had tested those and rather  forgotten them in the pile.

I tried (tested implies a level of rigour that probably isn't there...)
their Condor Natural - I found it to be closer to the Innova Soft Textured
Art - but somewhat less texture, and perhaps not quite as sharp or quite as
much DMax

On the other side, it was a little bit above Premier Art Hot Pressed, which
to me seems to have a lower DMax and be a bit softer in look overall (and
with a warmer paper base than the Condor Natural

It's certainly a nice paper and stand with some pros and cons among a group
of other papers. It just wasn't quite the standout (with my printing anyway)
that the Arches and the Red River were (with the caveat about the "slight"
OBA's in the Red River).

BTW - all this is on an Epson 2200 using QTR but with the Epson Black
replaced by MIS Ebony (all the rest are Epson UC inks)

tim