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Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-02 by Michael Birkmose

Hi guys,

I have recently converted a new epson 3880 to a piezography K7 printer.

Now I love the paper harman baryta gloss warmtone, but it is quite glossy and do not like pizzawheels at all (or anything else for that matter - it scratches just thinking of it).

The ONLY way I found printing on this paper without getting the pizzawheels is by using the front feed. But the print quality suffers from this. I tape the sheet of paper to a backing board (as the paper can easily curl up and cause a jam inside the printer).

Using this method I can print my image, dry it with a hair dryer and feed it through the printer for a second layer of gloss optimizer - without no scratches whatsoever. BUT the print quality is not the same as if I use the normal sheet feed. I can see a big difference in details level - it is simply not as sharp.

Before I converted the printer I did a lot of testing and I noticed the same issue with QTR on epson OEM inks - through the sheet feed I get more details than on the manual front feed. But I also noticed this issue using AWB - less details on the front feed compared to the sheet feed.

I have tried varying thickness of my backing board, I have tried messing around with the platen gap settings on the printer but with no luck. The normal sheet feeder always wins in terms of details. Seems I either have to choose between maximum detail and pizza wheels, or less details and no pizza wheels :S :S

Using epson premium luster I see the same issues with pizza wheels btw, so even OEM paper would need to be run through the front feed to avoid these marks :S


Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by jeff.grant@...

Michael,

I found that I was getting pizza wheel marks with EEF when I was applying the GO coat but they disappear after a while. That was using the rear feeder on a 3880.

Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Michael Birkmose

The pizza wheels are from the first print itself. I print sheed feet and the GO from frontmanual. Could even see the pizza wheels on epson premium luster with color test prints before making the switch :/

Seems only way is front feed but why must print quality suffer for an undamaged print? :(
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On Wednesday, June 3, 2015, jeff.grant@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Michael,


I found that I was getting pizza wheel marks with EEF when I was applying the GO coat but they disappear after a while. That was using the rear feeder on a 3880.

Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Michael Birkmose

Had the same problem before the conversion though with OEM inks. Seems that something different happens physically innterms of printing with front feed.
Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015, jeff.grant@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

You should probably ask the question at IJM. It's their product that is the problem. It would be nice to know how they avoid the problem.


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Roy Harrington

Given the description I'd guess the manual-feed quality issue is due to taping the
paper to backing. Maybe there's slipping between the sheet and backing during
the printing which would get things out of alignment.

I use my 3800 with Harman Gloss in the sheet feeder, OEM inks all the time and
have never been trouble with pizza wheel marks. But who knows the individual printer.

If you really need to use front feed I'd pre-flatten (anti-curl) the paper before
loading it. I'd think you can get it not to jam.

Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Michael Birkmose michael.birkmose@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Had the same problem before the conversion though with OEM inks. Seems that something different happens physically innterms of printing with front feed.

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015, jeff.grant@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

You should probably ask the question at IJM. It's their product that is the problem. It would be nice to know how they avoid the problem.







--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Michael Birkmose

I have owned two epson 3880 and one 4900 - all of them pizza wheeled any glossy papers :/

I tried feeding through a single paper with the front feed - no backing with a less curly paper - problem is it gets jamed inside the printer as it catches on to the front feed tray somehow while being ejected. But that can be hacked I am sure - the real problem is that the print quality suffers even more from just feeding a single sheet through the mechanism the print looks a lot more fussy than backing the same paper with some backing paper and tape. It seems the thicker I make the paper by adding more backing paper the better the print quality becomes but never as good as the sheet feed. The thing that pointed me in the direction of making the paper thicker is that on the front feed slot (and in the manual) epson hint that the front feed is for papers 1.2-1.5mm wide. But is it really per design that the front feed is less quality? I remember experimenting with the 4900 when I still owned it and front feed and seem to remember that print quality was not as good there as well. Sucks that you would have to choose between pizza wheels or print quality.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015, Roy Harrington roy@harrington.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Given the description I'd guess the manual-feed quality issue is due to taping the
paper to backing. Maybe there';s slipping between the sheet and backing during
the printing which would get things out of alignment.

I use my 3800 with Harman Gloss in the sheet feeder, OEM inks all the time and
have never been trouble with pizza wheel marks. But who knows the individual printer.

If you really need to use front feed I'd pre-flatten (anti-curl) the paper before
loading it. I'd think you can get it not to jam.

Roy

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Michael Birkmose michael.birkmose@googlemail.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Had the same problem before the conversion though with OEM inks. Seems that something different happens physically innterms of printing with front feed.

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015, jeff.grant@pobox.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

You should probably ask the question at IJM. It's their product that is the problem. It would be nice to know how they avoid the problem.







--

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Michael Birkmose

First of all Roy, before I forget it let me thank you for this amazing software you have created (I think quite often we can get cought up in the problems we are facing and forget to express our gratitude). It is simply fantastic!! I am a software engineer by profession so if there is anything I can do to help out let me know :)

Back to the front feed issue:

Looked a bit more into this front feed issue and have come across several people reporting fuzzy prints with this feed mechanism due to it being designed for much thicker papers - I quote here from Eric chan:



"

There is a way to avoid pizza wheel marks on PK papers entirely. The idea is to use the Front Feed, which bypasses the pizza wheel ejection mechanism entirely. However, simply using the Front Feed doesn't work perfectly, because the Front Feed is designed to be used with very thick papers (1 mm to 1.5 mm). If you use the Front Feed with regular papers, the print head winds up too far away from the paper surface, leading to dot misregistration and ghosting (i.e., a fuzzy print). The trick to getting around this problem is to use a thick backing sheet that is the same size as the sheet of paper (2-ply mat board works perfectly). For example, when printing on 11" x 17" paper, place the sheet on a 2-ply mat board that is cut to exactly 11" x 17". It is not necessary to tape the sheet to the board. Align the two carefully, insert the combination into the Front Feed, and print normally. Voila -- perfect prints, no marks.

"

Seems like I am on the right track with the backing and need to play more with it - perhaps using a harder backing...


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2015-06-03 8:56 GMT+02:00 Roy Harrington roy@harrington.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>:

Given the description I'd guess the manual-feed quality issue is due to taping the
paper to backing. Maybe there's slipping between the sheet and backing during
the printing which would get things out of alignment.

I use my 3800 with Harman Gloss in the sheet feeder, OEM inks all the time and
have never been trouble with pizza wheel marks. But who knows the individual printer.

If you really need to use front feed I'd pre-flatten (anti-curl) the paper before
loading it. I'd think you can get it not to jam.

Roy

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Michael Birkmose michael.birkmose@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Had the same problem before the conversion though with OEM inks. Seems that something different happens physically innterms of printing with front feed.

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015, jeff.grant@pobox.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

You should probably ask the question at IJM. It's their product that is the problem. It would be nice to know how they avoid the problem.







--


Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by richard@...

I had the same thought as Roy, and was going to suggest that you use a slightly larger 2-ply board than the paper you are printing on. If you align the right edge as you are looking at the front of the printer and back the paper off the front edge of the backing board by about 1/4 inch you can tape down all 4 and corners and have less chance of movement. I first found this problem trying to print separation negatives for platinum and nothing I could do with the front feed would print two negatives in exactly the same spot (using the same file and same position registration targets).

Do you have the same pizza wheel problem when using the rear manual feed?

As for the curled paper jamming on exit, you take a spare or damages sheet of paper and stick it through the front so it looks like this ___---_/ <---printed sheet- and the curled edge of the printed sheet is guided under the rollers. I have to do the same thing with some papers in a 7900/9900. It might be easier and more consistent than printing with backing board.


Richard Boutwell

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Michael Birkmose

YEs had the same issues with read feet with pizza wheels - same paper path right? Its on the exit that the pizza wheels appears. Have always had pizza wheels on glossy papers on any epson I owned :S

Regarding the jam that is not so much an issue that is fixable - the movement is not a issue either I have printed on single sheets with no backing at all - it seems to be related to the fact that the print head is to far away from the paper - it seems it is expected that you print on very thick media with front feed. I have done all the taping stuff, one various sizes of backing board - my next strategy would be to try to make the sheet as thick as possible. I hope it is possible to get the same print quality from the front feed as from the two other feeds :S
Show quoted textHide quoted text
2015-06-03 14:34 GMT+02:00 richard@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>:

I had the same thought as Roy, and was going to suggest that you use a slightly larger 2-ply board than the paper you are printing on. If you align the right edge as you are looking at the front of the printer and back the paper off the front edge of the backing board by about 1/4 inch you can tape down all 4 and corners and have less chance of movement. I first found this problem trying to print separation negatives for platinum and nothing I could do with the front feed would print two negatives in exactly the same spot (using the same file and same position registration targets).


Do you have the same pizza wheel problem when using the rear manual feed?

As for the curled paper jamming on exit, you take a spare or damages sheet of paper and stick it through the front so it looks like this ___---_/ <---printed sheet- and the curled edge of the printed sheet is guided under the rollers. I have to do the same thing with some papers in a 7900/9900. It might be easier and more consistent than printing with backing board.


Richard Boutwell


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Gbakr

I consistently use the front feed on my 3880 for printing digital negs for carbon transfer.  I use a .040 inch white polystyrene sheet as a backer board.  This sheet is one inch wider and longer than the OHP material.  I tape the OHP to the backer along the leading edge only.  A custom page layout in Print Tool accommodates the unprinted borders.  

I also have set up an exit shelf to the rear of the printer that supports the rather heavy plastic sheet during printer feed.  I use the standard platen gap.  I have found that this setup works well for my work.  Any slight loss in sharpness is preferable to the pizza wheel marking on the transparency material.

Gary

Sent from my iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 3, 2015, at 6:39 AM, Michael Birkmose michael.birkmose@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> YEs had the same issues with read feet with pizza wheels - same paper path right? Its on the exit that the pizza wheels appears. Have always had pizza wheels on glossy papers on any epson I owned :S
> 
> Regarding the jam that is not so much an issue that is fixable - the movement is not a issue either I have printed on single sheets with no backing at all - it seems to be related to the fact that the print head is to far away from the paper - it seems it is expected that you print on very thick media with front feed. I have done all the taping stuff, one various sizes of backing board - my next strategy would be to try to make the sheet as thick as possible. I hope it is possible to get the same print quality from the front feed as from the two other feeds :S
> 
> 2015-06-03 14:34 GMT+02:00 richard@richardboutwell.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>:
>>  
>> I had the same thought as Roy, and was going to suggest that you use a slightly larger 2-ply board than the paper you are printing on. If you align the right edge as you are looking at the front of the printer and back the paper off the front edge of the backing board by about 1/4 inch you can tape down all 4 and corners and have less chance of movement. I first found this problem trying to print separation negatives for platinum and nothing I could do with the front feed would print two negatives in exactly the same spot (using the same file and same position registration targets).
>> 
>> 
>> Do you have the same pizza wheel problem when using the rear manual feed?
>> 
>> As for the curled paper jamming on exit, you take a spare or damages sheet of paper and stick it through the front so it looks like this  ___---_/ <---printed sheet-   and the curled edge of the printed sheet is guided under the rollers. I have to do the same thing with some papers in a 7900/9900. It might be easier and more consistent than printing with backing board. 
>> 
>> 
>> Richard Boutwell
>>  
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2015-06-03 by Michael Birkmose

I carried on experimenting and after realising that with epson premium luster on my backing board solution printed through the front feed I got a tack sharp result - just as sharp as with the sheet feeder. This paper is normally brutally sharp and it never curls - leaving me with the only conclusion that the harman paper must be warping/curling and therefore moving during the printing process as Roy suggests. I think it has to do with the humidity change due to the ink on the paper - the harman glossy baryta curls like crazy - it is truely reminisant of real fibre papers from the darkroom (those badboys curled like crazy as well).

My solution which seems to fix the problem is taping the paper fully to the backing board - three tapes on all edges, i.e 12 pieces of tape(!!!). I apply the taper in a clockwise fashion so that the paper is tamed as much as possible and I therefore avoid as much curling/warping as possible. As a result I now seem to be able to print with no scratches and proper resolution with no fuzzyness. What a drama to use this paper. But I simply just love it for smaller prints. It has a very three dimensional feel to it - just like darkroom papers had it.

Thanks for all the inputs!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
2015-06-03 15:41 GMT+02:00 Gbakr gbakr@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>:

I consistently use the front feed on my 3880 for printing digital negs for carbon transfer. I use a .040 inch white polystyrene sheet as a backer board. This sheet is one inch wider and longer than the OHP material. I tape the OHP to the backer along the leading edge only. A custom page layout in Print Tool accommodates the unprinted borders.

I also have set up an exit shelf to the rear of the printer that supports the rather heavy plastic sheet during printer feed. I use the standard platen gap. I have found that this setup works well for my work. Any slight loss in sharpness is preferable to the pizza wheel marking on the transparency material.

Gary

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 3, 2015, at 6:39 AM, Michael Birkmose michael.birkmose@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

YEs had the same issues with read feet with pizza wheels - same paper path right? Its on the exit that the pizza wheels appears. Have always had pizza wheels on glossy papers on any epson I owned :S

Regarding the jam that is not so much an issue that is fixable - the movement is not a issue either I have printed on single sheets with no backing at all - it seems to be related to the fact that the print head is to far away from the paper - it seems it is expected that you print on very thick media with front feed. I have done all the taping stuff, one various sizes of backing board - my next strategy would be to try to make the sheet as thick as possible. I hope it is possible to get the same print quality from the front feed as from the two other feeds :S

2015-06-03 14:34 GMT+02:00 richard@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>:

I had the same thought as Roy, and was going to suggest that you use a slightly larger 2-ply board than the paper you are printing on. If you align the right edge as you are looking at the front of the printer and back the paper off the front edge of the backing board by about 1/4 inch you can tape down all 4 and corners and have less chance of movement. I first found this problem trying to print separation negatives for platinum and nothing I could do with the front feed would print two negatives in exactly the same spot (using the same file and same position registration targets).


Do you have the same pizza wheel problem when using the rear manual feed?

As for the curled paper jamming on exit, you take a spare or damages sheet of paper and stick it through the front so it looks like this ___---_/ <---printed sheet- and the curled edge of the printed sheet is guided under the rollers. I have to do the same thing with some papers in a 7900/9900. It might be easier and more consistent than printing with backing board.


Richard Boutwell



Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by fardy10@...

Just tagging on to the end of this old discussion.
Having some problems. I want to use the fron feeder on my epson 3880 to print digital negatives due to the lines produced on the pictoria, using the rear feed. I have tried many methods, including taping the transparency onto 1mm boards etc. The front feeder takes up the transparency and then says it is ready, but when I try to print with the printer tool, there is always an error, saying paper source error, check settings.

I think the problem is that on the printer tool, there is no way of choosing the source. I know there are people who have managed this, but wonder if someone can tell me how to do this?

Thanks
Babak

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by Keith Schreiber

Not exactly what you are asking for, but it will solve your problem:
Show quoted textHide quoted text


Keith Schreiber




On Dec 22, 2017, at 11:13 AM, fardy10@hotmail.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Just tagging on to the end of this old discussion.
Having some problems. I want to use the fron feeder on my epson 3880 to print digital negatives due to the lines produced on the pictoria, using the rear feed. I have tried many methods, including taping the transparency onto 1mm boards etc. The front feeder takes up the transparency and then says it is ready, but when I try to print with the printer tool, there is always an error, saying paper source error, check settings.

I think the problem is that on the printer tool, there is no way of choosing the source. I know there are people who have managed this, but wonder if someone can tell me how to do this?

Thanks
Babak


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

There isn’t a way. That is why the method was created.

Best,
Walker
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Dec 22, 2017, at 2:09 PM, fardy10@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Keith
> 
> Thanks for that, 
> I would prefer not to mess around with the printer if possible. 
> There must be a way to make this work. If not i guess I will try this mwthod.
> 
> babak
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by Douglas Taylor

Babak,
In Print Tool, when you choose QuadToneRIP, you’ll see at bottom left the Paper Feed: selection which includes Manual Front. That should resolve the paper source error.
Doug
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Dec 22, 2017, at 1:13 PM, fardy10@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Just tagging on to the end of this old discussion.
> Having some problems. I want to use the fron feeder on my epson 3880 to print digital negatives due to the lines produced on the pictoria, using the rear feed. I have tried many methods, including taping the transparency onto 1mm boards etc. The front feeder takes up the transparency and then says it is ready, but when I try to print with the printer tool, there is always an error, saying paper source error, check settings.
> 
> I think the problem is that on the printer tool, there is no way of choosing the source. I know there are people who have managed this, but wonder if someone can tell me how to do this?
> 
> Thanks
> Babak
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by Gary Baker

Babak
In my version of Print-tool (2.0.0), the feed source is available under Page Setup:  Paper and Print Settings.  I have used the front feeder on the 3880 frequently for producing digital negatives.  Hope this helps.

Gary

Sent from my iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:09 PM, fardy10@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Keith
> 
> Thanks for that, 
> I would prefer not to mess around with the printer if possible. 
> There must be a way to make this work. If not i guess I will try this mwthod.
> 
> babak
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by Roy Harrington

The Paper Source selection is different for the Epson driver vs the QTR driver.

With the Epson driver its in the paper size selection -- the different sizes have
the Feed Source as a submenu selection.

QTR driver on the other hand uses the paper size just for the dimensions. The
Paper Feed selection is done on the QTR print dialog page (print settings) on
the lower left of the page.

Roy

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Dec 22, 2017 at 12:01 PM, Gary Baker gbakr@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Babak
In my version of Print-tool (2.0.0), the feed source is available under Page Setup: Paper and Print Settings. I have used the front feeder on the 3880 frequently for producing digital negatives. Hope this helps.

Gary

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 22, 2017, at 12:09 PM, fardy10@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Keith

Thanks for that,
I would prefer not to mess around with the printer if possible.
There must be a way to make this work. If not i guess I will try this mwthod.

babak






--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by fardy10@...

Thanks Garry Douglas and Roy,

I am wondering if you are talking about Mac? On my mac once click the Printer & Print Settings, There is a paper size choice, orientation , layout etc but no paper feed choices?
Babak

Re: Epson 3880 - Front feed less print quality

2017-12-22 by fardy10@...

Hi Again, I found it, It is in fact in the menu after run Print, after i input the curve there are a few choices one of which is paper feed..

Will try it hope that does the trick.

Babak

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