QTR-Quadtone RIP

First I would like to thank Tom Husband for his reply to my previous 
post.

Now I don't manage to linearize the curve.
Details :
I am on WindowsXP, QTR 2.30, Epson 4000, ink Mis UT7, Paper Epson 
Semi-Gloss, Eye1 Photo.

I printed the "Ink Pattern Page" in calibration mode with 40%, 
scanned it in color 48bits 400dpi. In PS with eyedroper (5x5)I read 
the 100%value of each ink, compared it to the Black and read on the 
pattern the corresponding percentage.
In QTR I recorded these values under "Density" in the "curves 
creator" window and "ink setup" tab. Black being 100% C=52, M=73, 
Y=27, LC=22, LM=19, LK=37
Then I printed, not under calibration mode, the stepwedge 21 random 
and read the values with the Eye1. I saved the file and droped it 
into the Linearizing EXE and got this file :
Step	Lab	A	B	
0.00	93.56	-0.75	-5.01	-        b                 a  
|                         L   +
5.00	80.45	0.29	-1.03	-                        b    
|a                L           +
10.00	67.45	1.07	2.05	-                             |   
a   b L                   +
15.00	56.78	1.73	3.66	-                             |   L 
a       b               +
20.00	48.02	2.13	5.06	-                           L 
|       a           b         +
25.00	41.62	2.47	5.77	-                       L     
|        a             b      +
30.00	35.15	2.71	6.05	-                    L        
|         a             b     +
35.00	29.92	2.69	5.48	-                L            
|         a          b        +
40.00	26.05	2.52	4.60	-              L              
|         a       b           +
45.00	23.34	2.25	3.73	-             L               
|        a    b               +
50.00	20.49	1.92	2.49	-           L                 |      
a b                    +
55.00	19.27	1.72	1.88	-          L                  |     
ab                      +
60.00	17.68	1.15	0.69	-         L                   | b 
a                         +
65.00	16.98	1.13	0.24	-         L                   b   
a                         +
70.00	16.52	0.82	-0.27	-        L                  b |  
a                          +
75.00	15.89	0.33	-1.26	-        L              b     
|a                            +
80.00	15.71	0.12	-1.75	-        L             b      
a                             +
85.00	15.44	-0.24	-1.87	-        L            b      
a|                             +
90.00	15.62	-0.29	-2.06	-        L           b      a 
|                             +
95.00	15.37	-0.52	-2.50	-        L          b      a  
|                             +
100.00	15.29	-0.60	-2.67	-        L         b       a  
|                             +

LINEARIZE="93.56 80.45 67.45 56.78 48.02 41.62 35.15 29.92 26.05 
23.34 20.49 19.27 17.68 16.98 16.52 15.89 15.71 15.44 15.62 15.37 
15.29"

I then filled the linearization grid starting with the smallest 
value of 15.2 and carried on in the following order with 15.37 and 
so on.

I clic to create the curve, answer "Yes" to "save ink description" 
and got this message " Invalid Linearize curve - not constantly 
increasing - Curve creation failed ".

I understand that the ink densities values are not in a decreasing 
order, supposing there is one, but what to do ? That's the values I 
have !
Or is it something else I am doing wrong ?

I will be very greatful to and helpful hand.

Michel

Hallo,

i suppose the reason is the Lab value for 85% which is smaller than the 
value for 90%. I had the same experience today, when i tried to 
linearize curves for moab kayenta. I happens, when you draw your EyeOne 
not very continous over the printed stepwedge. I tried again two or 
three times and then the result was ok.

Regards

Rainer


lours51 wrote:

> First I would like to thank Tom Husband for his reply to my previous
> post.
>
> Now I don't manage to linearize the curve.
> Details :
> I am on WindowsXP, QTR 2.30, Epson 4000, ink Mis UT7, Paper Epson
> Semi-Gloss, Eye1 Photo.
>
> I printed the "Ink Pattern Page" in calibration mode with 40%,
> scanned it in color 48bits 400dpi. In PS with eyedroper (5x5)I read
> the 100%value of each ink, compared it to the Black and read on the
> pattern the corresponding percentage.
> In QTR I recorded these values under "Density" in the "curves
> creator" window and "ink setup" tab. Black being 100% C=52, M=73,
> Y=27, LC=22, LM=19, LK=37
> Then I printed, not under calibration mode, the stepwedge 21 random
> and read the values with the Eye1. I saved the file and droped it
> into the Linearizing EXE and got this file :
> Step      Lab      A      B     
> 0.00      93.56      -0.75      -5.01      -        b                 a 
> |                         L   +
> 5.00      80.45      0.29      -1.03      -                        b   
> |a                L           +
> 10.00      67.45      1.07      2.05      
> -                             |  
> a   b L                   +
> 15.00      56.78      1.73      3.66      
> -                             |   L
> a       b               +
> 20.00      48.02      2.13      5.06      -                           L
> |       a           b         +
> 25.00      41.62      2.47      5.77      -                       L    
> |        a             b      +
> 30.00      35.15      2.71      6.05      -                    L       
> |         a             b     +
> 35.00      29.92      2.69      5.48      -                L           
> |         a          b        +
> 40.00      26.05      2.52      4.60      -              L             
> |         a       b           +
> 45.00      23.34      2.25      3.73      -             L              
> |        a    b               +
> 50.00      20.49      1.92      2.49      -           
> L                 |     
> a b                    +
> 55.00      19.27      1.72      1.88      -          
> L                  |    
> ab                      +
> 60.00      17.68      1.15      0.69      -         
> L                   | b
> a                         +
> 65.00      16.98      1.13      0.24      -         
> L                   b  
> a                         +
> 70.00      16.52      0.82      -0.27      -        L                  
> b | 
> a                          +
> 75.00      15.89      0.33      -1.26      -        L              b    
> |a                            +
> 80.00      15.71      0.12      -1.75      -        L             b     
> a                             +
> 85.00      15.44      -0.24      -1.87      -        L            b     
> a|                             +
> 90.00      15.62      -0.29      -2.06      -        L           b      a
> |                             +
> 95.00      15.37      -0.52      -2.50      -        L          b      a 
> |                             +
> 100.00      15.29      -0.60      -2.67      -        L         
> b       a 
> |                             +
>
> LINEARIZE="93.56 80.45 67.45 56.78 48.02 41.62 35.15 29.92 26.05
> 23.34 20.49 19.27 17.68 16.98 16.52 15.89 15.71 15.44 15.62 15.37
> 15.29"
>
> I then filled the linearization grid starting with the smallest
> value of 15.2 and carried on in the following order with 15.37 and
> so on.
>
> I clic to create the curve, answer "Yes" to "save ink description"
> and got this message " Invalid Linearize curve - not constantly
> increasing - Curve creation failed ".
>
> I understand that the ink densities values are not in a decreasing
> order, supposing there is one, but what to do ? That's the values I
> have !
> Or is it something else I am doing wrong ?
>
> I will be very greatful to and helpful hand.
>
> Michel
>
>
>
>
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--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Rainer Taube <rainer@t...> wrote:
>
> Hallo,
> 
> i suppose the reason is the Lab value for 85% which is smaller 
than the 
> value for 90%. I had the same experience today, when i tried to 
> linearize curves for moab kayenta. I happens, when you draw your 
EyeOne 
> not very continous over the printed stepwedge. I tried again two 
or 
> three times and then the result was ok.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rainer



Rainer,

I don't draw the Eye1 but place it patch after patch, is it more 
accurate , I don't know but I didn't find the way to draw it on the 
patches.

Michel

lours51 wrote:

>
> Rainer,
>
> I don't draw the Eye1 but place it patch after patch, is it more
> accurate , I don't know but I didn't find the way to draw it on the
> patches.
>
> Michel
>
Michel,

Looking again in your values, i suppose something must be wrong because 
the nearly no diffenrence in the values between 60 and 100% (the range 
is from 17,68 to 15,29). That means nearly black for all patches from 60 
to 100%, to much ink. Do you print with 2880 dpi. I found that 2880 dpi 
brings down to much ink.

For example here the values from the KayentaSepia i made yesterday by 
drawing the EyeOne over the stepwedge. You can see that the values range 
from 43,82 to 19,55.

File: C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Rainer\Eigene 
Dateien\Messungen\RT1440UCKayentaSepia-out.txt
Step    Dens    Lab    A    B   
0.00    0.045    96.04    2.09    -9.23    b                             
|       a                  L  +
5.00    0.094    91.90    2.54    -7.29    b                             
|         a              L    +
10.00    0.157    86.82    2.87    -4.64    -          
b                  |          a          L       +
15.00    0.226    81.51    3.08    -2.19    -                    
b        |           a     L           +
20.00    0.300    76.13    3.35    -0.07    -                            
b|            a L              +
25.00    0.370    71.31    3.24    1.92    -                             
|      b    a                 +
30.00    0.445    66.43    3.22    3.14    -                             
|        L  b                 +
35.00    0.520    61.83    2.93    4.62    -                             
|      L   a      b           +
40.00    0.590    57.75    2.62    5.84    -                             
|   L     a            b      +
45.00    0.658    54.02    2.45    6.44    -                             
| L      a               b    +
50.00    0.722    50.66    2.13    7.37    -                             
L       a                    b+
55.00    0.781    47.69    1.80    8.01    -                           L 
|      a                      b
60.00    0.863    43.82    1.64    7.69    -                         L   
|     a                       b
65.00    0.971    39.05    1.57    6.75    -                      L      
|     a                    b  +
70.00    1.076    34.79    1.61    5.72    -                   L         
|     a               b       +
75.00    1.200    30.18    1.60    4.52    -                 L           
|     a           b           +
80.00    1.305    26.59    1.50    3.37    -              L              
|     a      b                +
85.00    1.397    23.71    1.35    2.54    -             L               
|    a    b                   +
90.00    1.461    21.79    1.11    1.98    -            L                
|   a  b                      +
95.00    1.507    20.48    0.94    1.62    -           L                 
|  a  b                       +
100.00    1.541    19.55    0.80    1.82    -          
L                  |  a   b                      +

Created ICC file C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Rainer\Eigene 
Dateien\Messungen\RT1440UCKayentaSepia.icc

Why did you scan your printout and do not measure directly the 100% 
value of each ink with the EyeOne. The scanning brings up one more 
possible error source.

Regards

Rainer

> Michel,
> 
> Looking again in your values, i suppose something must be wrong 
because 
> the nearly no diffenrence in the values between 60 and 100% (the 
range 
> is from 17,68 to 15,29). That means nearly black for all patches 
from 60 
> to 100%, to much ink. Do you print with 2880 dpi. I found that 
2880 dpi 
> brings down to much ink.
> 

Rainer, 

You are right, it is very black for the black ink ; but you know I 
already set it so low, I put the ink limit at 40.
Could it be advisable to get down even lower ? Strange !

Michel

Michel,

i have no experience with the UT7 ink-set. But i would either try to 
lower the ink limit or print at 1440 dpi. You didn\ufffdt mention whether you 
printed in 1440dpi or in 2880dpi resolution in QTR, but i suppose 2880.

Me be, a UT7 user can shed some light on this issue.

Regards

Rainer


lours51 wrote:

>
>
> Rainer,
>
> You are right, it is very black for the black ink ; but you know I
> already set it so low, I put the ink limit at 40.
> Could it be advisable to get down even lower ? Strange !
>
> Michel
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Rainer Taube <rainer@t...> wrote:
>
> Michel,
> 
> i have no experience with the UT7 ink-set. But i would either try to 
> lower the ink limit or print at 1440 dpi. You didn´t mention whether 
you 
> printed in 1440dpi or in 2880dpi resolution in QTR, but i suppose 
2880.
> 
> Me be, a UT7 user can shed some light on this issue.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Rainer
> 

Rainer,

I printed (and always) at 1440 dpi. last night  I redo the all thing, 
printed the calibration target at 20% ink value, then I still had non 
progressive values so I adjusted them. No matter what I did I still 
have the same error message and cannot linearize.
I tried with both Version 2.3 and 2.3.1 , I scanned colouor and B&W 
(the values are virtually the same anyway) same error.

I don't know what to do next.

Michel

Michel

I once had a problem with linearization errors and ended up
uninstalling QTR, deleting all files and folders created by QTR and
then reinstalled.  This fixed my problem, maybe you should give this a
try. You may be working with some corrupted data that is hanging
around.  I think the key for me was deleting any files left behind
after the uninstall.
tim

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "lours51" <sinwen@f...> wrote:

>
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, Rainer Taube <rainer@t...> wrote:
> >
> > Michel,
> > 
> > i have no experience with the UT7 ink-set. But i would either try to 
> > lower the ink limit or print at 1440 dpi. You didn´t mention whether 
> you 
> > printed in 1440dpi or in 2880dpi resolution in QTR, but i suppose 
> 2880.
> > 
> > Me be, a UT7 user can shed some light on this issue.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Rainer
> > 
> 
> Rainer,
> 
> I printed (and always) at 1440 dpi. last night  I redo the all thing, 
> printed the calibration target at 20% ink value, then I still had non 
> progressive values so I adjusted them. No matter what I did I still 
> have the same error message and cannot linearize.
> I tried with both Version 2.3 and 2.3.1 , I scanned colouor and B&W 
> (the values are virtually the same anyway) same error.
> 
> I don't know what to do next.
> 
> Michel
>

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <tbatten@t...> wrote:
>
> Michel
> 
> I once had a problem with linearization errors and ended up
> uninstalling QTR, deleting all files and folders created by QTR and
> then reinstalled.  This fixed my problem, maybe you should give 
this a
> try. You may be working with some corrupted data that is hanging
> around.  I think the key for me was deleting any files left behind
> after the uninstall.
> tim
> 

TIM,

I know this procedure "in general" for any software, so I have done 
it following your advice, I even cleaned what was left in the 
registry base, it made no difference.
This morning (see my previous post) when I called a picture it 
didn't appear in QTR printing window and the print came out blank, 
tonight it works and I didn't change anything besides closing QTR 
and reopen.

Michel