2015-11-17 by p52cox1@...
Recently migrated to Windows 10, installed QTRgui, which I have used for a few years, and downloaded curve files. Tried to print image as always, GUI setup was good, but got a "job process error". Checked drivers etc and all looks OK. Picked up some info here from brian_downunda re: location of stored curves. The string was c>user>>>>>QuadtoneRIp. Is this where curves files are supposed to reside? In my Quadtonerip folder I have a BIN folder and nothing else. Thanks
2015-11-17 by Roy Harrington
I'm not a Windows user so I don't know for sure about Windows 10.
My understanding is that the printing itself works but Curve Create
is the only issue. Unfortunately I have no way to see, fix, update,
any of the QTRgui front end code since I did not write any of it.
I'll continue to support the backend print program.
Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 7:03 AM,
p52cox1@... [QuadtoneRIP]
<QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Recently migrated to Windows 10, installed QTRgui, which I have used for a few years, and downloaded curve files. Tried to print image as always, GUI setup was good, but got a "job process error". Checked drivers etc and all looks OK. Picked up some info here from brian_downunda re: location of stored curves. The string was c>user>>>>>QuadtoneRIp. Is this where curves files are supposed to reside? In my Quadtonerip folder I have a BIN folder and nothing else. Thanks
--
2015-11-18 by p52cox1@...
Thank you Roy
2015-11-18 by brian_downunda@...
I think you're referring to this post:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/QuadtoneRIP/conversations/messages/12903
To spell things out in precise detail, in Windows, the shipped curves are stored in these two folders (using the R2880 as an example):
C:\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\Profiles\R2880-uc
C:\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP\QuadTone\QuadR2880
The files in the Profiles folders are .qidf files which you can edit to modify the curve. QTR will then "compIle" the curve to create a .quad file. These .quad files are stored in the QuadTone folders. There isn't a .qidf file for every .quad file, which doesn't matter so long as you don't want to modify the curve, all you need to print is the .quad.
You can store additional curves in these folders if you wish. The problem with doing so is that you'll need admin rights to add / delete / edit files. The QTR Curve Creation tools use alternative folders to store user-created curves:
C:\Users\[user]\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files (x86)\QuadToneRIP
The idea here is that you do have read and write privileges to this folder and its sub-folders, so this is where QTR stores curves created using the Curve Creation tools. I guess it's where you're supposed to store any files that you add yourself. When QTR displays the available curves, it merges the lists in Program Files (x86) and VirtualStore. You don't need to use the VirtualStore for anything you add, you can use Program Files (x86), but you'll need admin rights to do so.
However, in W10, the virtual store is broken for QTR. If you create a curve using the Curve Creation tools, you'll need to initially save them elsewhere and then move them into either Program Files (x86) or VirtualStore.
2015-11-18 by p52cox1@...
Thank you Brian
2015-12-10 by paulmwhiting@...
Very clearly laid out, Brian, thank you. Just one question on your final paragraph: I recently upgraded to Win 10 from Win 7 and it was my experience that the virtual store was not broken. Not trying to argue with you! But I'm wondering if that got fixed somewhere along the line. I was creating a new curve and the quad file did end up in the virtual store. And when I ran QTR (current version) that quad file ended up in my choice of curves, just as you said.
I sure would like to unblock the offending folders in Program Files (x86). Even though I have administrative rights, somehow I can't save files there. I did find one way to unblock the folder, but it was very complicated.
Another comment: although my QTR printer software is now up to date (2.7.6.0) the GUI is not and it turns out that was produced by another party, not Roy, and remains at ver. 2.7.0.0. Not really serious I suppose, but it threw me off a bit at first.
On the whole, however, Win 10 runs faster and more smoothly than my Win 7, and I do prefer it.
Best regards,
Paul
2015-12-10 by brian_downunda@...
My capacity to explain the varying behaviour of the VirtualStore in W10 is hampered by the fact that my only install of W10 is in a virtual machine. Unlike you, I remain wary of W10. I created the VM so that I could at least verify that all the specialist programs that I rely on (Gretagmacbeth Match3, Measure Tool, QTR, etc) would work, should I choose to upgrade at some stage. I was mindful of the experience of Mac users, where OS upgrades have had a nasty habit of breaking programs like these, permanently in some cases. The good news is that they all work, save for QTR curve creation and the VirtualStore.
There was at least one other report here about the VirtualStore problem, so I assume it's not just me. The only explanation for the difference between your system's behaviour and mine is that upgrading is different to a fresh install in this respect.
As for version numbers, what you have is up-to-date. Back when QTR first burst on the scene, on Windows it was just a command line program. Then Steve Billard created an freeware GUI interface for it. The two were developed and released separately, although Steve tried to keep QTRGui updated for any enhancements in QTR. At some point Roy incorporated it directly into the Windows release, so that you install them together. It's my understanding that at around that point, development of QTRGui ceased. I haven't seen Steve around online for a very, very long time. It's a bit of a shame, as this means no likelihood of changes to the GUI interface, since Roy is not a Windows programmer. So for example, QTRGui has not been updated for the x900 ten-ink printers. Thus it is. We are grateful for what we have, or else we might have to defect to the dark side.
2015-12-11 by paulmwhiting@...
Brian,
I don't know if what I have is a fresh install or an upgrade. I installed it over my Windows 7, and it took over 1 1/2 hours from start to finish.
Command line! I haven't used that since the days of DOS. Must have been a heck of a job with many options to call up. It is indeed a shame not to have the GUI upgrades keep up with the program upgrades. Maybe some kind soul would pick up on that challenge, maybe we could all chip in and pay someone for that task - dreamer that I am!
The dark side... wonder what that would be. Seems to my best recall that Paul is now experimenting with adding a touch of blue or cyan to the yellow position cart. I believe he even saw possibilities of using the Epson driver. Please someone correct me if my memory is incorrect - and no offense to you, Roy. QTR has served us all very well, and continues to do so.
Actually I've been on the dark side since I closed my darkroom. The only technology I had to deal with there was change the bulb in my enlarger once in a while. :) I hope I haven't offended anyone here. I just get a little apprehensive about the future and I start brainstorming.
2015-12-11 by Paul Roark
I lost track of this thread, but saw my name mentioned. So, if you could review the issue that related to I might be able to comment.
I loaded QTR on my wife's new Win 10 Dell. QTR works, but has a glitch in the Curve Creator. It will save, but the little spinning circle/busy cursor stays on -- until you go to the GUI and do a File>Open.
The Preview curve for the Point list works.
The overall curves are shown with a right click on the profile (actually quad file) that is shown in the main GUI profile selection box.
The Curve Creator works and will save a quad file, but it will not graph that file, and it gets stuck there. The File > Open shuts that off, however.
I did not do, and am not really in a position to do, extensive testing of the QTR-Win combo, but my quick reaction was that it was there and functioning. No need to look for any "compatibility mode." It automatically finds the right one.
FWIW
Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:24 PM,
paulmwhiting@... [QuadtoneRIP]
<QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Brian,
I don't know if what I have is a fresh install or an upgrade. I installed it over my Windows 7, and it took over 1 1/2 hours from start to finish.
Command line! I haven't used that since the days of DOS. Must have been a heck of a job with many options to call up. It is indeed a shame not to have the GUI upgrades keep up with the program upgrades. Maybe some kind soul would pick up on that challenge, maybe we could all chip in and pay someone for that task - dreamer that I am!
The dark side... wonder what that would be. Seems to my best recall that Paul is now experimenting with adding a touch of blue or cyan to the yellow position cart. I believe he even saw possibilities of using the Epson driver. Please someone correct me if my memory is incorrect - and no offense to you, Roy. QTR has served us all very well, and continues to do so.
Actually I've been on the dark side since I closed my darkroom. The only technology I had to deal with there was change the bulb in my enlarger once in a while. :) I hope I haven't offended anyone here. I just get a little apprehensive about the future and I start brainstorming.
2015-12-11 by brian_downunda@...
Paul R's name was mentioned I think because Paul W interpreted a comment I made about QTRGui not fully supporting the x900 ten ink printers on Windows as implying that QTRGui could not support some of Paul R's new techniques (blue/cyan in the yellow position?) to neutralise the warmth of Eboni. It is my understanding that QTRGui supports anything that doesn't use any more than eight channels, regardless of what you put in those channels, including Paul R's inksets.
The problem with the ten ink printers is when you want to use the additional two slots and create or modify curves in QTRGui. The only real relevance of this issue is that it's simply an
example of a point I was trying to make - about the limitations of QTRGui not being updated for a long time. I.e. don't expect QTRGui to be fixed for the issue in the next para.
The quotes below from Paul R are the only areas that I have found where QTR has issues in W10, i.e. I agree with him that otherwise it seems to work just fine. Which is the only point I was trying to make in this thread.
@Paul W: You did an upgrade, not a fresh install.
[My reference to moving to the "dark side" was a tongue-in-cheek remark about moving from Win to Mac.]
---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <roark.paul@...> wrote :
I loaded QTR on my wife's new Win 10 Dell. QTR works, but has a glitch in the Curve Creator. It will save, but the little spinning circle/busy cursor stays on -- until you go to the GUI and do a File>Open.
The Curve Creator works and will save a quad file, but it will not graph that file, and it gets stuck there. The File > Open shuts that off, however.
2015-12-11 by paulmwhiting@...
Paul,
I'll do what I can...
Actually the thread ended sometime in November and I chimed in a bit late. One issue was as you noted, about the Curve Creator. For some reason, the quad file is indeed generated but it doesn't get saved in the quad folder because under some accounts in Win 10 the quad folder is locked. The quad file gets saved in the "Virtual Store" - which I had never heard of. However, no matter where they are stored, QTR finds them and lists them in File/Open, as you noted. The reason it gets stuck is that the file is not where QTR is used to seeing it - the little green circle keeps spinning but in fact the quad file is just fine, over in the Virtual Store. (Today my computer repair person fixed the regular quad folder by running my computer under another account so that folder now accepts new quad files as in the past.)
Along with that discussion, it turns out that although QTR is now up to version 2.7.0.0 but the GUI is only at 2.0.0 (or close to that). Roy continues to support the main print engine but the GUI developer apparently is no longer involved. Since some printers now use 10 carts, the GUI is therefore short on positions.
At that point, I commented that I thought you said, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you are currently researching a cooler inkset using cyan or blue in the yellow cart position and, that it might be possible to use the Epson printer interface at some future date. Now, I've never used ICC's but it's my understanding that we'd then have to develop different ICC's to get different warms and cools with various inksets and papers - they would do the job that quad files now do in QTR. I apologized to Roy in advance, I didn't want him to think I don't appreciate QTR.
HTH,
Paul W.
2015-12-11 by paulmwhiting@...
I see Brian beat me to it! Looks like we were saying essentially the same thing.
Paul W.
2015-12-12 by Roy Harrington
Hi All,
Between Brian and 2 Pauls you guys know more than I about Win 10.
The QTRgui situation is a bit problematic. As was mentioned I don't have any way to
fix or modify it so it's stuck at the current version. The good news is that it works
fine for printing for all cases I know. The first problem is the 10 ink printers -- curve
creation and just curve viewing fails because the last update was back with 8 ink printers.
But since the actual printing is in the back end driver I've been able to update that
just fine -- so you can print to 10inks and use curves designed with all 10 inks.
The second problem is with Win 10 and all the curve creation part of QTRgui.
The whole VirtualStore issue is a bit of a pain but I think its all possible to
work around it. But again as far as I know all the printing functions work fine.
If people really want to make 10 ink curves I think its possible to do this more
manually -- Notepad editing of .qidf files. Let me know. I need to learn a bit
about these VirtualStore mysteries.
I've been trying to find someone to help with some new Windows code. So that's
a possibility. Maybe just a new Curve Create.
(btw, no apologies needed for anything. I totally encourage any ways to get
the results you want. Paul has done amazing work in figuring out some of the
Epson drivers by using specially tailored inks for it).
Thanks for all the help,
Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 2:57 PM,
paulmwhiting@... [QuadtoneRIP]
<QuadtoneRIP@...m> wrote:
Paul,
I'll do what I can...
Actually the thread ended sometime in November and I chimed in a bit late. One issue was as you noted, about the Curve Creator. For some reason, the quad file is indeed generated but it doesn't get saved in the quad folder because under some accounts in Win 10 the quad folder is locked. The quad file gets saved in the "Virtual Store" - which I had never heard of. However, no matter where they are stored, QTR finds them and lists them in File/Open, as you noted. The reason it gets stuck is that the file is not where QTR is used to seeing it - the little green circle keeps spinning but in fact the quad file is just fine, over in the Virtual Store. (Today my computer repair person fixed the regular quad folder by running my computer under another account so that folder now accepts new quad files as in the past.)
Along with that discussion, it turns out that although QTR is now up to version 2.7.0.0 but the GUI is only at 2.0.0 (or close to that). Roy continues to support the main print engine but the GUI developer apparently is no longer involved. Since some printers now use 10 carts, the GUI is therefore short on positions.
At that point, I commented that I thought you said, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you are currently researching a cooler inkset using cyan or blue in the yellow cart position and, that it might be possible to use the Epson printer interface at some future date. Now, I've never used ICC's but it's my understanding that we'd then have to develop different ICC's to get different warms and cools with various inksets and papers - they would do the job that quad files now do in QTR. I apologized to Roy in advance, I didn9;t want him to think I don't appreciate QTR.
HTH,
Paul W.
--
2015-12-12 by brian_downunda@...
What I know about W10 could be written on the back of the proverbial postage stamp, given that I only fire up the W10 VM when I need to test something.
VirtualStore is not new in W10 - W7 has it and so I assume W8 as well. The VirtualStore W10 behaviour is odd, because as I understand it, it's supposed to operate fairly seamlessly to avoid precisely the sorts of problems that are occurring in W10. I suspect only a minor glitch that Steve could fix if he was still around.
If you manage to locate a Windows programmer, any chance that we might see Print Tool for Windows one day?
2015-12-12 by paulmwhiting@...
Hello Brian,
I no doubt was unclear! I didn't mean to imply QTRGui could not support Paul's new inksets. I was trying to help Paul identify the context in which his name came up.
Matter of fact I've used the Epson driver on my 1400-Eb6 setup. I've worked up some b/w notecards in WordPerfect X3 (that dates me!) and of course they have a .wpd extension, a format unsupported by QTR. They printed fine. Perhaps not a fine art result but adequate for the task.
No worries!
Paul W.
---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <brian_downunda@...> wrote :
Paul R's name was mentioned I think because Paul W interpreted a comment I made about QTRGui not fully supporting the x900 ten ink printers on Windows as implying that QTRGui could not support some of Paul R's new techniques (blue/cyan in the yellow position?) to neutralise the warmth of Eboni. It is my understanding that QTRGui supports anything that doesn't use any more than eight channels, regardless of what you put in those channels, including Paul R's inksets.
2015-12-12 by Paul Roark
Paul W. wrote, in part, "... you said .. that you are currently researching a cooler inkset using cyan or blue in the yellow cart position and, that it might be possible to use the Epson printer interface at some future date."
The blue toner is a mix of Canon blue and cyan pigments.
The reason to use the yellow position is that with Photoshop curves the blue curve controls the yellow position and gives very good and easy control of the print tone. The single-toner approach is, in my view, a very good compromise of ease, flexibility and quality.
This type of setup does allow ICCs to be make using QTR's Create ICC-RGB. With those you have a color managed B&W workflow for the Windows platform.
Basically, the single-toner "Variable tone" Eboni type inkset is my favorite setup.
Paul
2015-12-12 by Paul Roark
OT, but a bit amusing, I'm writing a Photoshop curve that will balance the carbon tone to neutral in a different "Eboni" setup when the toner is in the LLK position of a K3 printer! (Say what ...?)
Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Paul Roark
<roark.paul@gmail.com> wrote:
Paul W. wrote, in part, "... you said .. that you are currently researching a cooler inkset using cyan or blue in the yellow cart position and, that it might be possible to use the Epson printer interface at some future date."
The blue toner is a mix of Canon blue and cyan pigments.
The reason to use the yellow position is that with Photoshop curves the blue curve controls the yellow position and gives very good and easy control of the print tone. The single-toner approach is, in my view, a very good compromise of ease, flexibility and quality.
This type of setup does allow ICCs to be make using QTR's Create ICC-RGB. With those you have a color managed B&W workflow for the Windows platform.
Basically, the single-toner "Variable tone" Eboni type inkset is my favorite setup.
Paul
2015-12-12 by paulmwhiting@...
Paul R.,
So - my memory served me well, that you did talk about the Epson driver... it's in the very first paragraph of your pdf. I downloaded that when you first reported on this research. Some of it is over my head, but I do get the general idea. Apparently a sticking point is the availability of a compatible blue in bulk, as is Eboni, so we end users can mix our own neutral inkset. You're right, it is easy. I'm on my second batch, more accurately called Cb6 instead of Eb6. I'm using an Ohaus scale, which measures to .1 gram - I do 100 ml mixes and store it in 125 ml plastic bottles from MIS. The bottles are my tare weight.
I'm eager to try it!
Paul W.
2015-12-12 by Paul Roark
Eboni MK is available from MIS (I assume) -- premixed to all the dilutions or in bulk, which can be mixed with, for example, generic base C6b, which I use and mix, and which is also available from MIS for cheap.
If MIS does not have the Eboni MK in stock, let me know. It's available by the liter from STS at least with a special order approach. (I don't use the STS web page; MIS is the normal retail outlet for this product.)
I recommend the blue toner mix described on page 3 of
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/3880-Eboni-Variable-Tone.pdf . It's Canon Lucia blue and cyan, diluted with generic base C6b. It's also what I just loaded into my "new to me" 9800. For matte paper, it's the best I've found. As far as I know no commercial outfit is pre-mixing this. I9;ve given the formula in UT14 color toner terms to MIS. It's there if they want to mix it with their pigments (though I don't know the status of the availability of those old color Image Specialists colors). I understand that most don't want to mix these, but that is also what sets us apart.
Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:46 PM,
paulmwhiting@... [QuadtoneRIP]
<QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Paul R.,
So - my memory served me well, that you did talk about the Epson driver... it's in the very first paragraph of your pdf. I downloaded that when you first reported on this research. Some of it is over my head, but I do get the general idea. Apparently a sticking point is the availability of a compatible blue in bulk, as is Eboni, so we end users can mix our own neutral inkset. You're right, it is easy. I'm on my second batch, more accurately called Cb6 instead of Eb6. I'm using an Ohaus scale, which measures to .1 gram - I do 100 ml mixes and store it in 125 ml plastic bottles from MIS. The bottles are my tare weight.
I'm eager to try it!
Paul W.
2015-12-14 by paulmwhiting@...
I do hope MIS picks up on that mix. I felt some satisfaction on mastering the Carbon-6 inkset for the 1400. I'm not sure I want to press my luck and master the cooling mix of Cyan and Blue just yet. (By the way I used the term C6b in a previous msg, but that's the base, not the inkset - I got those terms mixed up.)
Paul
2016-10-19 by dtrout@...
Found this topic while searching for some background on QTR and Windows 10. I have been using QTR for various printer maintenance tasks (on a 10 ink 7900) using both Windows 7 and Windows 10. I'm now considering a more serious commitment to QTR for B&W printing and I am concerned about the current state of (non) development for QTRgui. And of course, we also have the fact that Mac has a really nice Print Tool utility that doesn't exist on the Windows platform.
I know that QTRgui was originally developed by a separate contributor. And as far as I know, there is no plan from that developer to do any further work on the gui code. If anyone knows different, please comment. Right now, we know that the Curve Creator does not fully function, and there are also some other gremlins that seem to have workarounds (for now). I know that the printing part works, but how long will that be the case? I think we have been lucky so far that the original QTRgui has lasted this long without major need for updates.
Roy, I see in the above conversation that you mentioned looking to get some programming help to update the Windows QTR components. Can you provide any update on this? If it were me, I'd look to get help with a major overhaul of the UI, even if there are only a few "bugs" which need to be fixed. Get rid of all the skins stuff and just build a really clean, complete, easy to see and use interface. (High on my wish list would be ability to change font size in the UI :-). But my main concern is the future viability of QTR as a B&W printing system on the Windows platform.
Thanks.
2016-10-19 by brian_downunda@...
As a long time Windows XP & 7 QTR user, and someone who will have to upgrade to W10 sooner or later (I've already reserved my digital entitlement), I'm not that concerned. As an investment it's only fifty bucks, and a lot cheaper than say Imageprint. There are relatively minor inconveniences for a 10-ink printer on W10, but the fact is that Windows upgrades haven't ever broken the basic functionality of QTR. Once you've got your curves set up, you just print. I can still use Measure Tool in W10!
I don't wish to start a Mac-PC war, but seriously, I'd be more concerned if I was on a Mac. OS X upgrades have broken things. Colour management was broken back in 10.6.8 IIRC, which is why Print Tool is needed, and a recent OS X upgrade (El Capitan?) broke QTR for new installs until Roy released a fix. OS X may be more convenient now, but were Roy to be hit by the proverbial bus (heaven forbid), and another such break to occur ...
---In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, <dtrout@...> wrote :
..... But my main concern is the future viability of QTR as a B&W printing system on the Windows platform.
2016-10-21 by dtrout@...
Brian,
Thanks for your comments. You make a valid point concerning the fact that the Windows platform has certainly had fewer printing issues in general than the Mac over the last few years. I'm a long-time Windows user (mainly because of my day job technical environment) and I've been very happy with the stability of this platform for doing all facets of digital imaging work, including printing. This is why I'm wanting to feel a bit more comfortable about QTR and Windows in the future, and additionally would like to see a revamped and updated QTRgui.
In any case, as you point out, the investment level in QTR is quite reasonable and so far it is still possible to print on Windows 10. I've now invested in the new Piezography Pro system and will be more dependent on QTR for my B&W work. Let's hope things will continue to be positive for QTR on the Windows platform.
Dave