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Help with 4900

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Help with 4900

2016-05-24 by Roy Harrington

Hi Parker

You have some minor errors.
The main problem is the null LINEARIZE line. Just get rid of it
completely until you have data for real values.
Others: you have UNUSED_INK_5=VLM -- just LM no "V"
You mention: 100%, 30%, 18% and 6%. inks but have
100,40,75,35 in the GRAY_VAL's why ??

Roy


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 3:17 PM, parkersmithphoto@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I am trying to create a Mac based TEXT profile for an Epson 4900 using 4 black Eboni inks in the K, LK, LLK and GREEN channels at 100%, 30%, 18% and 6%.


Can someone take a look at this file and let me know what I am doing wrong? I can't get it to load.


http://www.parkersmithphoto.com/clientftp/docs/Epson-HPR-2.txt










--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: Help with 4900

2016-05-24 by parkersmithphoto@...

Roy,

I thought the "Gray Values" was used to plug in the percentage or overlap point with the next darkest ink, that is, "LLK at 100% is as dark as LK at 35%." Is that not correct? I printed the QTR CALIBRATION page with the limit at 65% and these were the numbers I got when read with a Spyder in density mode.

The ink set is Eboni, diluted according to Paul's specs with his clear base formula to make 100% (K), 30% (GREEN), 18% (LK) and 6% (LLK) dilutions. This is an older 4900 that has a bad VLM channel, so I am running the four blacks and filling the rest of the carts with clear base.

Here is the gray partition again.

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=4
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=GR
GRAY_VAL_2=40

GRAY_INK_3=LK
GRAY_VAL_3=75

GRAY_INK_4=LLK
GRAY_VAL_4=35

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Help with 4900

2016-05-24 by Roy Harrington

You measure adjacent gray for the percents. But the values have to be
Relative to black. So LK would be 75% * 40% = 30 and the LLK would be 10.5
( I'd have thought the values would be closer to the dilution - check Pauls values)

Roy
Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Tuesday, May 24, 2016, parkersmithphoto@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Roy,

I thought the "Gray Values" was used to plug in the percentage or overlap point with the next darkest ink, that is, "LLK at 100% is as dark as LK at 35%." Is that not correct? I printed the QTR CALIBRATION page with the limit at 65% and these were the numbers I got when read with a Spyder in density mode.

The ink set is Eboni, diluted according to Paul's specs with his clear base formula to make 100% (K), 30% (GREEN), 18% (LK) and 6% (LLK) dilutions. This is an older 4900 that has a bad VLM channel, so I am running the four blacks and filling the rest of the carts with clear base.

Here is the gray partition again.

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=4
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=GR
GRAY_VAL_2=40

GRAY_INK_3=LK
GRAY_VAL_3=75

GRAY_INK_4=LLK
GRAY_VAL_4=35





--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Re: Help with 4900

2016-05-24 by parkersmithphoto@...

Okay how does this look?
---------

# QuadToneRIP curve descriptor file
#
# for 4900 with Eboni inks

PRINTER=Quad4900
CALIBRATION=NO
GRAPH_CURVE=NO

N_OF_INKS=10
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=65

LIMIT_K=65
BOOST_K=70
LIMIT_C=0
LIMIT_M=0
LIMIT_Y=0
LIMIT_LC=0
LIMIT_LM=0
LIMIT_LK=
LIMIT_LLK=
LIMIT_OR=0
LIMIT_GR=

#
# Describe usage of each ink
# All inks must be listed
#

# Gray Partitioning Information

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=4
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=GR
GRAY_VAL_2=40

GRAY_INK_3=LK
GRAY_VAL_3=30

GRAY_INK_4=LLK
GRAY_VAL_4=10.5

GRAY_INK_5=
GRAY_VAL_5=

GRAY_INK_6=
GRAY_VAL_6=

GRAY_INK_7=
GRAY_VAL_7=

GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=6
GRAY_SHADOW=6

GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=


# Toner Partition Information

N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_INK_1=
TONER_VAL_1=
TONER_INK_2=
TONER_VAL_2=

TONER_HIGHLIGHT=
TONER_SHADOW=

TONER_GAMMA=
TONER_CURVE=


# Unused Inks

N_OF_UNUSED=6
UNUSED_INK_1=C
UNUSED_INK_2=M
UNUSED_INK_3=OR
UNUSED_INK_4=Y
UNUSED_INK_5=LM
UNUSED_INK_6=LC

UC_NEUTRALIZER=NO

Re: Help with 4900

2016-05-26 by parkersmithphoto@...

I have successfully finished this profile, thanks for the help.

Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-19 by coisasdavida@...

The above exchange was kind of what I was looking for.
I recently got a used 4900 with PK and MK channels and I'm planning on a 100% carbon ink set. I still have 9 cartridges left and was thinking of using 4 too.

Is there a rule as to how to position the inks in the printer, from darker to lighter?

I wanted to fill the Epson carts in the printer with clear base, while I wait for the refillable to come by mail, should take a few months. Is this viable?

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-21 by Paul Roark

I have never used a 4900, but most of the more recent Epson wide format printers use carts that have one-way valves in them that stop refilling. I tried to remove those valves, but the success rate was low. I'd recommend that you wait until you have good refillable cartridges. Even if you manage to remove the valves, rinsing a wide format cart is a pain.

If you use a rip like QTR, it doesn't much matter where you put the dilute inks. The jets appear to be the same regardless of position, but do keep the PK and MK in their assigned spots. The profile will determine the firing order.

If you want to use the Epson driver, you'll need to have the LM and LC significantly more dilute than the M and C, respectively. I've had success with dilution differences of between 50% and 20%, with 30% being my target. What that means is the the LM and LC should be 30% M or C, respectively, and 70% dilution base. So, for example, if the C is 30% K, then the LC should be 9% K.

I fact, I've found that having the lighter ink have only 30% as much pigment as the darker one is a good target for any cross-over, whether it's QTR or the Epson driver.

With the original Eboni-6, which was, in part, made for the old 7500 and 3000 (which had relatively huge drop sizes compared to today's printers) the Y position was only 2% K, 98% dilution base. Note that I no longer recommend that. The dots are small enough that pumping that much fluid onto the paper is worse than having dots that are a bit more prominent -- under a microscope. So, we no longer need such a dilute ink. Also, we don't need to hide the fact that we're using inkjets. We';ve beat the silver print. Carbon is king now in almost all respects. Silver printing is an "alt process."

So, if you combine the 30% ink dilution target with the dilution end point being closer to 6% K, you'll find that you need more than just a simple single partition. In QTR that means setting up those "toner" channels as carbon channels. I use different dilutions in them so that the cross-overs are at different point. That hides the cross-overs well.

Alternatively, if you want to just put clear base in a number of channels, you can use the generic base for this and then do a simple, single partition of carbon inks. You might, however, find that on close inspection you have some microbanding. I still have a simple "quad" printer that does a good job, but many of them are less than perfect. You may find you need more than 4 channels for top quality output.

You say you want 100% carbon. That's great for warm, but do you also want to be able to make a neutral print? If so, you might want to consider having a color pigment based toner in the printer. As you can see from my main ink information page ( http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ ) I've settled on the single toner setup for my printers now because it works and is easy to profile.

Good luck,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com




Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 5:45 AM, coisasdavida@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The above exchange was kind of what I was looking for.

I recently got a used 4900 with PK and MK channels and I'm planning on a 100% carbon ink set. I still have 9 cartridges left and was thinking of using 4 too.

Is there a rule as to how to position the inks in the printer, from darker to lighter?

I wanted to fill the Epson carts in the printer with clear base, while I wait for the refillable to come by mail, should take a few months. Is this viable?


Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-21 by Brubaker family

Jose Rodriguez on youtube shows a way to modify 3800 and 3880 carts so fluid can be injected.  I don't know if the 4900 carts have similar valving or not.  

Mike Brubaker

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/19/18, coisasdavida@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900
 To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, February 19, 2018, 8:45 AM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       The above exchange was kind of what I was looking
 for.I recently got a used 4900 with PK and MK
 channels and I'm planning on a 100% carbon ink set. I
 still have 9 cartridges left and was thinking of using 4
 too.
 Is there a rule
 as to how to position the inks in the printer, from darker
 to lighter?
 I wanted
 to fill the Epson carts in the printer with clear base,
 while I wait for the refillable to come by mail, should take
 a few months. Is this viable?
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv5290647827 #yiv5290647827 --

Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-21 by coisasdavida@...

Sorry, I missed a word there.
My 4900 has PK and MK dead, possibly a ruined distributor where the channels meet to share the head.
But I haven't tried anything on it so far. In the past, helping some friends I had more luck getting rid of clogs by cleaning the suction tray instead of the actual head, but I digress.

100% carbon because I am thinking of this printer as a learning step for me now.
I'm currently looking for a larger printer as well and then, maybe, I'll explore a matte/glossy and warm/neutral setup.

thanks for all the input. I'll order the carts and in a few months I'll came back to bug you all a bit more.

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-21 by Paul Roark

I used that method and ended up with a mess from leaky carts. I recommend people buy good, new refillables.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:12 PM, Brubaker family brubaker_family@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Jose Rodriguez on youtube shows a way to modify 3800 and 3880 carts so fluid can be injected. I don't know if the 4900 carts have similar valving or not.

Mike Brubaker

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 2/19/18, coisasdavida@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900
To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 19, 2018, 8:45 AM












The above exchange was kind of what I was looking
 for.I recently got a used 4900 with PK and MK
channels and I'm planning on a 100% carbon ink set. I
still have 9 cartridges left and was thinking of using 4
too.
Is there a rule
as to how to position the inks in the printer, from darker
to lighter?
I wanted
to fill the Epson carts in the printer with clear base,
while I wait for the refillable to come by mail, should take
a few months. Is this viable?









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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-22 by Jon Goodman

I am able to refill 7600 carts with a big syringe and a resetter. Old tech for epson printers.

Sent from my iPad
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Feb 21, 2018, at 1:12 PM, Brubaker family brubaker_family@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Jose Rodriguez on youtube shows a way to modify 3800 and 3880 carts so fluid can be injected. I don't know if the 4900 carts have similar valving or not. 
> 
> Mike Brubaker
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 2/19/18, coisasdavida@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: Help with 4900
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, February 19, 2018, 8:45 AM
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The above exchange was kind of what I was looking
> for.I recently got a used 4900 with PK and MK
> channels and I'm planning on a 100% carbon ink set. I
> still have 9 cartridges left and was thinking of using 4
> too.
> Is there a rule
> as to how to position the inks in the printer, from darker
> to lighter?
> I wanted
> to fill the Epson carts in the printer with clear base,
> while I wait for the refillable to come by mail, should take
> a few months. Is this viable?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-22 by richard@...

If it just the selector unit you might be able to get it back by chaining the ink selector/damper assembly.

If not, then I have own opinion on what I think you should do.

First, don't dilute the M/C and LM/LC inks the same just so you can use the Epson driver. It is a waste of a multi-channel gray ink printer. Also, if you do want to use it with QTR and those dilutions you'll miss out on what you can do with the partitioned inks. You could still partition them with different ink limits, but they might be a little wonky because the limits will cause one to print lighter and you might get dots, or weird bronzing when making gloss prints.

Here is what I would actually recommend. Get the Piezography Carbon Inks with the HD MK and PK shade 1 and protective spray or gloss overprint for MK/PK compatibility (getting Piezography inks because they better/more reliable/easier than diluting yourself).

I would set them up in this order.

ML/PK - broken... throw in some expired epson carts...
C - Shade 2
Lc - LC (oem/refillable color ink)
M - Shade 3 (or Shade 4 if using Gloss overprint — shade 3 is not needed if using gloss overprint)
Lm - LM (oem/refillable color ink)
Y - Shade 4 (or shade 5 if using Gloss Overprint)
Lk - Shade 5 (or shade 6 if using Gloss Overprint)
Llk - Shade 6 or Gloss Overprint
Or - Pk
Gr Mk

Then get my QuadToneProfiler-Pro system and then an i1 Pro off ebay so you can measure in scanning mode (all the ink limits and partitioning is done automatically from two calibration targets).

The new tools have my own partitioning formula that will not require you to use the toning curves to hide the partitioning points (the only reason you might need to use the toner curves to hide the partitioning points is because they were not set correctly in the first place). My partitioning system makes smoother curves than the traditional QTR curve creation formulas with more overlap of each neighboring shade and smoothing start and stop points.

With that system you will be able to use any number of inks—like all carbon and then use my new gray balance tool with the Lc and Lm inks for toning. You won't be able to make a "cold-toned" print but you can easily neutralize the warmth or make a warm selenium-tone and then do a range of split tones with the QTR curve blending.


Hope that helps,
Richard Boutwell

http://www.richardboutwell.com/

Re: Help with 4900

2018-02-22 by coisasdavida@...

I really appreciate the time you guys took to write your replies.

Re: Help with 4900

2018-03-27 by coisasdavida@...

Could I ask you guys to double check this one for me? I'm only using the left side of the printer for now, so all inks are there.

# QuadToneRIP curve descriptor file
#
# for 4900 with T474 Epson Archival Ink diluted inkset

PRINTER=Quad4900
CALIBRATION=NO
GRAPH_CURVE=NO

N_OF_INKS=10
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=65

LIMIT_K=0
LIMIT_C=0
LIMIT_M=0
LIMIT_Y=
LIMIT_LC=
LIMIT_LM=
LIMIT_LK=0
LIMIT_LLK=
LIMIT_OR=
LIMIT_GR=

#
# Describe usage of each ink
# All inks must be listed
#

# Gray Partitioning Information

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=6
GRAY_INK_1=OR
GRAY_VAL_1=100

GRAY_INK_2=LM
GRAY_VAL_2=40

GRAY_INK_3=LC
GRAY_VAL_3=30

GRAY_INK_4=Y
GRAY_VAL_4=20

GRAY_INK_5=LLK
GRAY_VAL_5=10.5

GRAY_INK_6=GR
GRAY_VAL_6=5

GRAY_INK_7=
GRAY_VAL_7=

GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=6
GRAY_SHADOW=6

GRAY_GAMMA=1
GRAY_CURVE=


# Toner Partition Information

N_OF_TONER_PARTS=0
TONER_INK_1=
TONER_VAL_1=
TONER_INK_2=
TONER_VAL_2=

TONER_HIGHLIGHT=
TONER_SHADOW=

TONER_GAMMA=
TONER_CURVE=


# Unused Inks

N_OF_UNUSED=6
UNUSED_INK_1=C
UNUSED_INK_2=M
UNUSED_INK_3=OR
UNUSED_INK_4=Y
UNUSED_INK_5=LM
UNUSED_INK_6=LC

UC_NEUTRALIZER=NO

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.