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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-26 by Greg Franco

I have done this...mainly for the purpose of making patches that better fit the paper size I am using to test with or to add a label to the negative with a text description with process details. Don't change the color space or file type...if your editor is automatically changing the color space upon import or opening you need to change that behavior. Keep as a grey gamma 2.2 tiff throughout editing and also upon saving.  Before printing test that the grey values haven't changed by hovering the eyedropper tool over the patches and checking the %K value to make sure they weren't changed.

Greg.
On 8/25/2016 3:09:50 PM, dagor52@... [QuadtoneRIP] <quadtonerip@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
I understand that the Tiff images that have been provided are typically not to be edited or altered, but if I did want to edit (I've tried unsuccessfully) these images what would the procedure be? 

Thanks, Seth 


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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-26 by richard@...

Seth, what are you attempting to do with the ink separation images and what kind of problems are you having with it not working well.

I make custom ink separation images all the time, and over the past week I came up with a new method that automatically generates custom ink separation reference files for only the inks you want to use and in what order you want to print and measure them in. These reference files used by ColorPort or i1 Profiler to generate a patch set for whatever spectrophotometer you might have for either i1 profiler or ColorPort (These could also be read by the SpyderPrint in manual spot measurement mode). I've tested it with a user here over the last few days and it works pretty well. I'm putting the final touches on it and will be sending it to a few beta testers next week and hopefully release it mid-September.

------

The following is a really short except from the section on ink separation images from the QTR book I've been working on for the past forever (I just need to stop coming up with new methods of doing stuff and just finish the thing...)


''
You can create your own ink separation images for specific needs by using these Red and Blue values listed below to control what ink is being printed. Remember that the files must be either a tiff or psd file with **no assigned ICC profile** and **no embedded ICC profile**.

The values in the Green Channel will control how much of each separate ink is printed as a percentage of whatever the Ink Limit slider is set to when printing in QTR Calibration Mode.

- RGB Values for creating custom Ink Separation Images
- K (Black) R: 127 B: 255
- LK (Light Black) R:253 B:255
- LLK (Light Light Black) R:254 B:255
- C (Cyan) R:191 B:255
- M (Magenta or Vivid Magenta) R: 223 B:255
- Y (Yellow) R:239 B:255
- LC (Light Cyan) R:247 B:255
- LM (Light Magenta) R:251 B:255
- O (Orange) R:255 B:127
- G (Green) R:255 B:191
- The Orange and Green inks are only found in the x900 printers, and are rarely, if ever, used in making normal QTR profiles. Those channels can be used with creating custom toning profiles with third party ink sets when making custom profiles on Mac OS (the Windows QTRgui has not been updated to work with the 10 ink printers).

''


Hope that helps,
Richard Boutwell

http://www.richardboutwell.com/

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-28 by <hammonludiegxb@...>

Thanks 


Sent from Yahoo Mail. Get the app


    On Sunday, August 28, 2016 2:12 AM, "sanking@... [QuadtoneRIP]" <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



     Is there a way to "invert" the ink calibration page? I would like to be able to invert it so I could make a direct positive print in order to begin the process of making a profile for digital negatives.


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Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-28 by ctb@...

Hi Sandy,

Do you mean you would like to invert the individual gray scale strips?

It is not too difficult to make your own calibration page. Not only for single ink output but also ink mixes.There's a clever binary to color number system to find out what color qtr uses in callibration mode.

In the standard inkcallibration file the step tablet information is in the G channel and the channels R and B (only printers with extra orange and green) are regulating what ink is used for the ouput.

But if you just invert the scales in the G channel of the standard file you might be there allready.

Kees

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-28 by sanking@...

"Do you mean you would like to invert the individual gray scale strips?"

Kees,

Yes, that is exactly what I would like to do.

But I have no idea how to edit the inkseparation file. Could you provide some basic guidelines or instructions on how to do this?

Sandy

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-28 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

Sandy. I’m not sure exactly what you would accomplish by doing this as inverting the strip would give you exactly the same values just going in the opposite direction.


-Walker
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Aug 28, 2016, at 5:51 PM, sanking@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> "Do you mean you would like to invert the individual gray scale strips?"
> 
> Kees,
> 
> Yes, that is exactly what I would like to do.
> 
> But I have no idea how to edit the inkseparation file. Could you provide some basic guidelines or instructions on how to do this?
> 
> Sandy
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-29 by sanking@...

"I’m not sure exactly what you would accomplish by doing this as inverting the strip would give you exactly the same values just going in the opposite direction."

Walker,

Yes, I understand that the values would be the same going from 100% to 0% as going from 0% to 100%, but then when I read the value of the positive it is in inverse relationship to the scale. That is confusing for me, and would be even more confusing to explain to a student.

But perhaps it would be easier for me to just flip the scale on the negative so that 0% reads 100% and 100% reads 0%.

Sandy

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-29 by Paul Roark

While I always start with the QTR Calibration Mode print to see all the inks from 0 to 100%, after that I use individual 21-step.tif test files and QTR profiles that print just the ink I'm interested in. For example, to see the K from 0 to 100% I use a profile that in the Windows GUI is generated by simply putting the coordinates (0,0) and (100,100) in the "point list." The program draws a straight line between them. My "K-0-100.qidf" file's active parts simply have this as the bottom line of the file: CURVE_K="0;0 100;100 "".

I print a number of 21-step test strips on a single piece of paper, but one at a time. This can be done for any ink with any ink limit, or a combination of inks, as described in the qidf file.

Photoshop can invert (image>adjustments>invert) the standard 21-step test file. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/21-Step-and-inverted.zip to see the result.

I don't know whether printing the inverted 21-step test file with the individual K-0-100 type profile would get you what you're after, but it might be worth taking a look at that approach.

(I'm looking at the realities of doing this type of thing for the usual photographer who does not have a UV densitometer, and is not a coder or color expert. My closest experience to alt process is limited to silver, where I enlarged 8x10 digital internegs. Luckily it looks like with respect to carbon as the interneg's source of density, the UV and visible light densities are relatively proportionate. Ultimately, measuring the final print and linearizing to that is what I did and probably will target. It worked for silver printing -- for a while. Unfortunately, my interneg service bureau couldn't resist messing around with their profiles, which, of course, messed up my workflow.)

FWIW

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-29 by Roy Harrington

Sandy,

As Walker suggested it seems like just reading it as is is the simplest -- (after all if you are doing negatives you
need to flip your point of view of positive/negative quite often).
But if you do want to just flip the ink separation files, just open in Photoshop, select just the Green channel. It'll
now show just the steps in B&W. Select and Invert either the whole thing or just the step wedges.

Roy

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Aug 28, 2016 at 5:00 PM, sanking@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


"I’m not sure exactly what you would accomplish by doing this as inverting the strip would give you exactly the same values just going in the opposite direction."

Walker,

Yes, I understand that the values would be the same going from 100% to 0% as going from 0% to 100%, but then when I read the value of the positive it is in inverse relationship to the scale. That is confusing for me, and would be even more confusing to explain to a student.

But perhaps it would be easier for me to just flip the scale on the negative so that 0% reads 100% and 100% reads 0%.

Sandy




--
Roy Harrington
roy@...
www.harrington.com

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-29 by Walker Blackwell

Sandy. You mentioned that this was for students? Doing a workshop?

All of the complex math and work behind the neg and DIY calibration process has already been figured out and implemented in PiezoDN if you are interested.

No judgement if you want to go you own way, but that may save you some major time and it's continually supported and upgraded.

We've done four workshops so far with this system and it seems to really be the most simple way to both teach alt-process---and to teach how to calibrate.

There is no inversion of the image, no curve adjustments, you don't even need to flip the image 180 degrees anymore, darkroom print matches your screen. All calibration and negative making is taken care of at a lower level. It makes a good teaching tool.

Cheers,
Walker
Show quoted textHide quoted text

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-30 by sanking@...

Sandy. You mentioned that this was for students? Doing a workshop?

All of the complex math and work behind the neg and DIY calibration process has already been figured out and implemented in PiezoDN if you are interested.

Walker,

Together with a former student I am currently in the final stages of finishing a new book on carbon transfer printing. In the book we have dedicated a fair amount of attention to the various methodologies for making digital negatives, especially with QTR using both the Epson K3 inks as well as all gray ink sets. We have included information on the PiezoDN system, and will update it as necessary with regard to carbon transfer.

I teach workshops on carbon transfer both at my home workshop/studio in South Carolina and away from home. Away from home the available printer is nearly always an Epson with K3 inks so I have to be prepared to make digital negatives with simple QTR profiles for the K3 inks that give good results, and that are relatively easy to explain.

Sandy







Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-30 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

> 
> I teach workshops on carbon transfer both at my home workshop/studio in South Carolina and away from home. Away from home the available printer is nearly always an Epson with K3 inks so I have to be prepared to make digital negatives with simple QTR profiles for the K3 inks that give  good results, and that are relatively easy to explain. 

I see. Cheers, -W
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Sandy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] QuadtoneRIP Ink Pattern Page Calibration Image

2016-08-31 by dagor52@...

Thanks Richard for you help and suggestions. I finally found out why I was suddenly having problems with my edited versions on the QTR ink Pattern Page. In my version of Photoshop ver 2015.5.1 a recent update to Bridge apparently altered some Preferences Settings which prevented opening an image without applying a profile behind the scenes. Even though I've checked in Photoshop under *** Color Settings / Color Management Policies / Missing Profiles ... "Ask When Opening" this question was not asked, but instead a profile was applied. Even though I have Bridge and Photoshop "Synchronized" to use the same Color Settings. The Fix was found in Bridge under "Edit / Camera Raw Preferences / JPEG & TIFF Handling" The correct setting should be "Automatically Open with Settings". With that selected a Tiff or Jpeg file will open in Photoshop and follow my settings and request how to handle a Mismatched / Missing / or Untagged File (which the QTR Ink Pattern is). The odd thing is I'm not opening my QTR ink Pattern Page in Camera Raw, instead I'm holding the shift key down and double clicking the image icon to open the file. Several calls to Adobe provided no help, it appears that sadly that I may know more than some of their help desk people when it comes to Color Management.
On another note, I've been using the Excel Spread sheets you've created to Linearize QTR curves...Great Job! Now I get perfectly linearized curves in a fraction of the time...and I skip the "Linearization tab" in the QTR Curve creator. I can create a new QTR Profile and use less than two sheet of paper.

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.