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New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-15 by daimone@...

Using Print Tool and a QTR file as per Ian Leake's Digital Negative workshop 2.0

I've attached a link to a sample image of the Kallitype Print, and put the text for the QTR file below.

I'm getting a kind of pattern-y cross hatch on my Kallitypes now. The only change in process is my printer, from Epson 4900 to Epson P800. I can't see it on regular prints, and I can't see it on the negatives. On the kallitypes you can see it more in the highlights, so I'm assuming it's more pronounced in the areas where the negatives get more ink. I'm going to call Epson but I wonder if anyone here has any ideas. The other thing I will try is printing the negative without QTR the way I did a while back, though I wasn't having this problem until I switched printers.

I've tried to rule other things out, but the printer is the only change in my process. Tried both Arches Platine (my regular paper) and Hahnemule Platinum Rag (which I'm trying) and both get the same result. Nothing has changed with brush or application technique; using the same roller to apply fumed alumina, same Pictorico OHP, etc...

Thanks in advance: David


https://www.flickr.com/photos/ioglass/31003258205/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/

Show quoted textHide quoted text

# © Copyright Ian Leake 2016. All rights reserved.

# The Digital Negative Workshop by Ian Leake

#

# Curve Name: DNW-PKCY-001

# Printer: Epson P800

# Media: Pictorico

# Process:

# Sensitiser:

# Paper:

# Drying:

# Exposure:

# Developer:


# IMPORTANT NOTE: USE PHOTO BLACK INK NOT MATTE BLACK INK


# Profile basics

GRAPH_CURVE=YES

N_OF_INKS=8


# This sets the default ink limits that apply to inks not specifically mentioned below

DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=0


# Use K, C and Y only because they are reasonable UV filters

# Do not use any of the poor UV filters (M, LC, LM, LK, LLK)

LIMIT_K=25

LIMIT_C=25

LIMIT_Y=25


# Define the K ink mix

# Use only K (Photo Black) used because LK and LLK have almost no effect on UV

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=1

GRAY_INK_1=K

GRAY_VAL_1=100


# Define gray profile parameters

GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=0

GRAY_SHADOW=0

GRAY_GAMMA=1


# Curve

GRAY_CURVE="0;0 100;100"

COPY_CURVE_C=K

COPY_CURVE_Y=K



Re: New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by daimone@...

Does anyone have a clue why I'm getting these patterns with QTR and the Epson P800?

I've gone through nozzle checks and print head alignment, no different. When I print a digital negative without QTR, the patterns are not there. But QTR gives me a better negative otherwise.

Is something about using only three inks and specifying an ink limit making this a risk with QTR?

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by Mark Savoia

I still think its a screen/frequency issue with QTR and the P800. It just might not be fine tuned for it yet since that line of printers is rather new. And using only three inks only could add to it.

Mark
stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 8:54 AM, daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a clue why I'm getting these patterns with QTR and the Epson P800?
> 
> I've gone through nozzle checks and print head alignment, no different.  When I print a digital negative without QTR, the patterns are not there.  But QTR gives me a better negative otherwise.
> 
> Is something about using only three inks and specifying an ink limit making this a risk with QTR?
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by Keith Schreiber

David,

Five days ago on your thread about this on the FB Digital Negatives group, I offered to send you a different profile to try. You did not respond. The offer still stands. It is a profile that I made for a friend who is printing Pd on very thin translucent Japanese washi with negs made on a P800. I can send it to you with and/or without a GrayCurve, though without would probably be more suitable since you would need to customize the GrayCurve anyhow. I have seen her negatives and they are beautiful with no sign of dithering or any kind of pattern and a Dmax of around 3.2 which is way more than OEM inks produce on my 3880.

At the very least, trying this might help to determine whether the cause of your problem lies with the profile or if it is something else.

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 6:54 AM, daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a clue why I'm getting these patterns with QTR and the Epson P800?
> 
> 
> I've gone through nozzle checks and print head alignment, no different.  When I print a digital negative without QTR, the patterns are not there.  But QTR gives me a better negative otherwise.
> 
> Is something about using only three inks and specifying an ink limit making this a risk with QTR?
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by FELIX MARTIN

Hi Keith,

I have been printing dig negs for printing on Arches, would love to try your curves and share the results.
I have no dithering or any problems with what I use right now, but I would be interested to see the differences.

I am currently using curves and profile Kerik Kourik helped me develop for my P800.

-Thank You,
-Felix
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Keith Schreiber keith@... <mailto:keith@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> 
> Five days ago on your thread about this on the FB Digital Negatives group, I offered to send you a different profile to try. You did not respond. The offer still stands. It is a profile that I made for a friend who is printing Pd on very thin translucent Japanese washi with negs made on a P800. I can send it to you with and/or without a GrayCurve, though without would probably be more suitable since you would need to customize the GrayCurve anyhow. I have seen her negatives and they are beautiful with no sign of dithering or any kind of pattern and a Dmax of around 3.2 which is way more than OEM inks produce on my 3880.
> 
> At the very least, trying this might help to determine whether the cause of your problem lies with the profile or if it is something else.
> 
> Cheers,
> Keith
> 
> Keith Schreiber
> jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 6:54 AM, daimone@... <mailto:daimone@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does anyone have a clue why I'm getting these patterns with QTR and the Epson P800?
>> 
>> 
>> I've gone through nozzle checks and print head alignment, no different.  When I print a digital negative without QTR, the patterns are not there.  But QTR gives me a better negative otherwise.
>> 
>> Is something about using only three inks and specifying an ink limit making this a risk with QTR?
>> 
> 
> 
>

Re: New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by daimone@...

Keith,

Sorry I didn't respond, I've been on and off FaceBook lately. I'm new to QTR. I would just load your curve into the first slot of the QTR print driver instead of the one adapted through Ian Leake's process? Also, I am using OEM inks, just the QTR driver for printing, so I'm not sure your curve would be applicable? As I said, new to QTR...

David

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by Keith Schreiber

Hi David,

I'm using PiezoDN myself these days, but I used OEM inks with QTR on a 3880 (and a 3800 before that) for a long time. The profile I'm speaking of is for OEM inks on a P800. The bones of it are not much different than my base 3880 profile, but the results judging from the 2 negs that my friend sent me, are much better than I ever got from my 3880/OEM/QTR system. The only thing that would be different would be the Gray Curve, which would be customized to your process, and possibly the Gray Gamma setting. Gray Highlight, Gray Shadow, and Gray Overlap settings could also be modified, but I never have. 

What adaptations have you made to Ian's curve. What you posted on FB had "0;0 100;100" in the Gray Curve field. Do I guess correctly that that is Ian's profile unmodified?

Have you learned to make Gray Curves yet? Richard Boutwell has (or had?) a very nice spreadsheet for deriving the Gray Curve from a 21-step target. It converts from Density to Luminosity which results in a much more visually accurate linearization than a curve derived from Density values. I know Richard is working on a new and expanded version of his Digital Negative curve tool (which I am looking forward to) to compliment his recently released tools for inkjet printing. Here is a link to the older version which I think is still available: 
http://www.bwmastery.com/qtr-correction-curve-tool

As for my P800 profile, I suppose I could just paste the text here for you to copy/paste into a text file yourself, or I could send you the file directly. Your choice. As I said previously, it should at least help you to determine whether your problem lies with the profile or with the printer. 

For QTR settings, you should be using Ordered for the dither setting, 2880dpi, uni-directional, and Photo Black.

Cheers,
Keith
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 1:53 PM, daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
> 
> Sorry I didn't respond, I've been on and off FaceBook lately.  I'm new to QTR.  I would just load your curve into the first slot of the QTR print driver instead of the one adapted through Ian Leake's process?  Also, I am using OEM inks, just the QTR driver for printing, so I'm not sure your curve would be applicable?  As I said, new to QTR...
> 
> David
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by David Aimone

Keith,

I have not done Gray Curves, I am new to QTR.  I’ve used both curves or gradient maps in Photoshop with step tablets to create digital negatives without QTR.  I hope I’m understanding what you’re saying and making sense back!  So the following is still a mystery to me in regards to QTR:

> The only thing that would be different would be the Gray Curve, which would be customized to your process, and possibly the Gray Gamma setting. Gray Highlight, Gray Shadow, and Gray Overlap settings could also be modified, but I never have. 


The only adaptations to Ian’s curve so far have been the ink limits for K, C and Y.  His file starts with ink limits of 40 for all three.  I get sufficient white lowering the limt to 25 for all three.  So I assume you are correct about "0;0 100;100" in the Gray Curve field. 

Seriously, I think I have a pretty good handle on the digital negative process but still a novice with how to apply and use QTR.

David Aimone
david@...

http://www.aimonephoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Keith Schreiber keith@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> 
> I'm using PiezoDN myself these days, but I used OEM inks with QTR on a 3880 (and a 3800 before that) for a long time. The profile I'm speaking of is for OEM inks on a P800. The bones of it are not much different than my base 3880 profile, but the results judging from the 2 negs that my friend sent me, are much better than I ever got from my 3880/OEM/QTR system. The only thing that would be different would be the Gray Curve, which would be customized to your process, and possibly the Gray Gamma setting. Gray Highlight, Gray Shadow, and Gray Overlap settings could also be modified, but I never have. 
> 
> What adaptations have you made to Ian's curve. What you posted on FB had "0;0 100;100" in the Gray Curve field. Do I guess correctly that that is Ian's profile unmodified?
> 
> Have you learned to make Gray Curves yet? Richard Boutwell has (or had?) a very nice spreadsheet for deriving the Gray Curve from a 21-step target. It converts from Density to Luminosity which results in a much more visually accurate linearization than a curve derived from Density values. I know Richard is working on a new and expanded version of his Digital Negative curve tool (which I am looking forward to) to compliment his recently released tools for inkjet printing. Here is a link to the older version which I think is still available: 
> http://www.bwmastery.com/qtr-correction-curve-tool <http://www.bwmastery.com/qtr-correction-curve-tool>
> 
> As for my P800 profile, I suppose I could just paste the text here for you to copy/paste into a text file yourself, or I could send you the file directly. Your choice. As I said previously, it should at least help you to determine whether your problem lies with the profile or with the printer. 
> 
> For QTR settings, you should be using Ordered for the dither setting, 2880dpi, uni-directional, and Photo Black.
> 
> Cheers,
> Keith
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 1:53 PM, daimone@... <mailto:daimone@nycap.rr.com> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Keith,
>> 
>> 
>> Sorry I didn't respond, I've been on and off FaceBook lately.  I'm new to QTR.  I would just load your curve into the first slot of the QTR print driver instead of the one adapted through Ian Leake's process?  Also, I am using OEM inks, just the QTR driver for printing, so I'm not sure your curve would be applicable?  As I said, new to QTR...
>> 
>> David
>> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-21 by Keith Schreiber

Hi David,

Here is the text of my base profile for the P800:
___________________________________________________

#Notes - Base Profile for Pd using Pictorico TPS (Ultra)

PRINTER=QuadP800
CURVE_NAME=P800PK-UPOHP-Pd-Base
GRAPH_CURVE=YES

N_OF_INKS=8
DEFAULT_INK_LIMIT=60
BOOST_K=60
LIMIT_K=60
LIMIT_C=5
LIMIT_M=5
LIMIT_Y=12
LIMIT_LC=5
LIMIT_LM=5
LIMIT_LK=60
LIMIT_LLK=80

N_OF_GRAY_PARTS=3
GRAY_INK_1=K
GRAY_VAL_1=100
GRAY_INK_2=LK
GRAY_VAL_2=40
GRAY_INK_3=LLK
GRAY_VAL_3=10
GRAY_HIGHLIGHT=2
GRAY_SHADOW=6
GRAY_OVERLAP=

GRAY_GAMMA=0.8

GRAY_CURVE="0;0 100;100"

N_OF_UNUSED=0
COPY_CURVE_C=K
COPY_CURVE_M=K
COPY_CURVE_Y=K
COPY_CURVE_LC=LK
COPY_CURVE_LM=LK
________________________________________________________

If you want to try it out, copy and paste it into a text file, change Pd in the Curve Name to Kallitype or whatever you use as an abbreviation, save it in the appropriate QTR folder, then install it as you would any QTR curve. I expect it will print slightly contrasty. The next step will be to use the Gray Curve field to linearize the negative based on readings of the 21-step target that you can make using a scanner, densitometer, or spectrophotometer. (Listed in order from worst to best, IMHO.) 

Ian is obviously very accomplished at what he does, but I have to take issue with the idea of using only K, C, and Y. As someone else noted earlier in this thread, that is very likely to be the cause of your problems. In my experience, the LK and LLK inks are very useful along with K and Y. The other colors (C, M, LC, and LM) less so. 

Don't worry about all those other QTR functions that I mentioned. That is advanced stuff that is probably best left alone unless you happen to be someone who is more interesting in tinkering than making images.

Try this profile out to see if you still have the problem. If not, then the cause was the profile, and you can now move on to linearization. If yes, then the cause must lie elsewhere.

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 3:32 PM, David Aimone daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Keith,
> 
> I have not done Gray Curves, I am new to QTR.  I’ve used both curves or gradient maps in Photoshop with step tablets to create digital negatives without QTR.  I hope I’m understanding what you’re saying and making sense back!  So the following is still a mystery to me in regards to QTR:
> 
>> The only thing that would be different would be the Gray Curve, which would be customized to your process, and possibly the Gray Gamma setting. Gray Highlight, Gray Shadow, and Gray Overlap settings could also be modified, but I never have. 
> 
> 
> The only adaptations to Ian’s curve so far have been the ink limits for K, C and Y.  His file starts with ink limits of 40 for all three.  I get sufficient white lowering the limt to 25 for all three.  So I assume you are correct about "0;0 100;100" in the Gray Curve field. 
> 
> Seriously, I think I have a pretty good handle on the digital negative process but still a novice with how to apply and use QTR.
> 
> David Aimone
> david@aimonephoto.com <mailto:david@...>
> 
> http://www.aimonephoto.com <http://www.aimonephoto.com/>
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 4:57 PM, Keith Schreiber keith@... <mailto:keith@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> 
>> I'm using PiezoDN myself these days, but I used OEM inks with QTR on a 3880 (and a 3800 before that) for a long time. The profile I'm speaking of is for OEM inks on a P800. The bones of it are not much different than my base 3880 profile, but the results judging from the 2 negs that my friend sent me, are much better than I ever got from my 3880/OEM/QTR system. The only thing that would be different would be the Gray Curve, which would be customized to your process, and possibly the Gray Gamma setting. Gray Highlight, Gray Shadow, and Gray Overlap settings could also be modified, but I never have. 
>> 
>> What adaptations have you made to Ian's curve. What you posted on FB had "0;0 100;100" in the Gray Curve field. Do I guess correctly that that is Ian's profile unmodified?
>> 
>> Have you learned to make Gray Curves yet? Richard Boutwell has (or had?) a very nice spreadsheet for deriving the Gray Curve from a 21-step target. It converts from Density to Luminosity which results in a much more visually accurate linearization than a curve derived from Density values. I know Richard is working on a new and expanded version of his Digital Negative curve tool (which I am looking forward to) to compliment his recently released tools for inkjet printing. Here is a link to the older version which I think is still available: 
>> http://www.bwmastery.com/qtr-correction-curve-tool <http://www.bwmastery.com/qtr-correction-curve-tool>
>> 
>> As for my P800 profile, I suppose I could just paste the text here for you to copy/paste into a text file yourself, or I could send you the file directly. Your choice. As I said previously, it should at least help you to determine whether your problem lies with the profile or with the printer. 
>> 
>> For QTR settings, you should be using Ordered for the dither setting, 2880dpi, uni-directional, and Photo Black.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Keith
>> 
>>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 1:53 PM, daimone@... <mailto:daimone@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Keith,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sorry I didn't respond, I've been on and off FaceBook lately.  I'm new to QTR.  I would just load your curve into the first slot of the QTR print driver instead of the one adapted through Ian Leake's process?  Also, I am using OEM inks, just the QTR driver for printing, so I'm not sure your curve would be applicable?  As I said, new to QTR...
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-22 by Keith Schreiber

Hi Felix,

Kerik is really good at this stuff, but if you want to try I just posted by base profile in my last post to David. I can give you one with a Gray Curve if you want, but the papers I made them for are quite different than Platine or any of the papers commonly used for alt-process printing. Even the 2 papers I made final profiles for were different enough from each other that each required its own Gray Curve. You would most likely need to make your own Gray Curve from scratch anyhow. 

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:37 AM, FELIX MARTIN martin.felix@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Keith,
> 
> I have been printing dig negs for printing on Arches, would love to try your curves and share the results.
> I have no dithering or any problems with what I use right now, but I would be interested to see the differences.
> 
> I am currently using curves and profile Kerik Kourik helped me develop for my P800.
> 
> -Thank You,
> -Felix
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Keith Schreiber keith@... <mailto:keith@jkschreiber.com> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> David,
>> 
>> 
>> Five days ago on your thread about this on the FB Digital Negatives group, I offered to send you a different profile to try. You did not respond. The offer still stands. It is a profile that I made for a friend who is printing Pd on very thin translucent Japanese washi with negs made on a P800. I can send it to you with and/or without a GrayCurve, though without would probably be more suitable since you would need to customize the GrayCurve anyhow. I have seen her negatives and they are beautiful with no sign of dithering or any kind of pattern and a Dmax of around 3.2 which is way more than OEM inks produce on my 3880.
>> 
>> At the very least, trying this might help to determine whether the cause of your problem lies with the profile or if it is something else.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Keith
>> 
>> Keith Schreiber
>> jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 6:54 AM, daimone@... <mailto:daimone@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have a clue why I'm getting these patterns with QTR and the Epson P800?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've gone through nozzle checks and print head alignment, no different.  When I print a digital negative without QTR, the patterns are not there.  But QTR gives me a better negative otherwise.
>>> 
>>> Is something about using only three inks and specifying an ink limit making this a risk with QTR?
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-22 by FELIX MARTIN

Keith,

Thank you for publishing that file. I will compare it to what I have been using.

Yes I know I need to work on my own curves to suit my paper/process. I will.

But since this is learning experience, I would not mind to peek at your curve.

-Thanks again!

-Felix
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 4:48 PM, Keith Schreiber keith@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Felix,
> 
> 
> Kerik is really good at this stuff, but if you want to try I just posted by base profile in my last post to David. I can give you one with a Gray Curve if you want, but the papers I made them for are quite different than Platine or any of the papers commonly used for alt-process printing. Even the 2 papers I made final profiles for were different enough from each other that each required its own Gray Curve. You would most likely need to make your own Gray Curve from scratch anyhow. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Keith
> 
> Keith Schreiber
> jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:37 AM, FELIX MARTIN martin.felix@... <mailto:martin.felix@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Keith,
>> 
>> I have been printing dig negs for printing on Arches, would love to try your curves and share the results.
>> I have no dithering or any problems with what I use right now, but I would be interested to see the differences.
>> 
>> I am currently using curves and profile Kerik Kourik helped me develop for my P800.
>> 
>> -Thank You,
>> -Felix
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 9:06 AM, Keith Schreiber keith@... <mailto:keith@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Five days ago on your thread about this on the FB Digital Negatives group, I offered to send you a different profile to try. You did not respond. The offer still stands. It is a profile that I made for a friend who is printing Pd on very thin translucent Japanese washi with negs made on a P800. I can send it to you with and/or without a GrayCurve, though without would probably be more suitable since you would need to customize the GrayCurve anyhow. I have seen her negatives and they are beautiful with no sign of dithering or any kind of pattern and a Dmax of around 3.2 which is way more than OEM inks produce on my 3880.
>>> 
>>> At the very least, trying this might help to determine whether the cause of your problem lies with the profile or if it is something else.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Keith
>>> 
>>> Keith Schreiber
>>> jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 6:54 AM, daimone@... <mailto:daimone@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Does anyone have a clue why I'm getting these patterns with QTR and the Epson P800?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've gone through nozzle checks and print head alignment, no different.  When I print a digital negative without QTR, the patterns are not there.  But QTR gives me a better negative otherwise.
>>>> 
>>>> Is something about using only three inks and specifying an ink limit making this a risk with QTR?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-22 by Keith Schreiber

Hi David,

Aha! That was not clear. Or maybe I just missed it.

In the profile that I posted, or better yet in the text file that you made with it, find the following line:

GRAY_CURVE="0;0 100;100"

You are going to replace the part within the quotation marks with your curve. Just be sure to use the same syntax. It begins and ends with quotes. The number pairs are input;output separated by a space. It's a semi-colon NOT a colon. This is important. Then change the CURVE_NAME to reflect that this is a new curve, and save the file using the curve name as the file name. Run the install command to install the new curve, print another 21-step using it, print the new neg in the darkroom, read the steps to verify your linearization. 

This is all assuming you are on a Mac. It's a little different for PC users using the Curve Creator tool, but not much.

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 6:04 PM, daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
> 
> Just to clarify, I know how to calculate a grayscale curve based on a 21 step tablet, I just need to know how to plug it into the QTR profile.  Thanks!
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] Re: New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-22 by David Aimone

Keith,

Ok, so if I have the concept correct, there will be 21 pairs separated by a semi-colong, one pair for each step.  I’m usually reading numbers from 0-256.  For these, am I reading input and output grayscale percentages 0-100?  Are they in pairs in the order input;output?  The output is read from scanning the print of the 21 step chart; and I assume I use the standard percentages of a 21 step chart for the input value?

I actually tried to find this information on the quadtonerip site but I think the site is down, it’s not loading in Safari or Chrome.  Yes, I’m on a Mac too.

David Aimone
david@...

http://www.aimonephoto.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Keith Schreiber keith@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> 
> Aha! That was not clear. Or maybe I just missed it.
> 
> In the profile that I posted, or better yet in the text file that you made with it, find the following line:
> 
> GRAY_CURVE="0;0 100;100"
> 
> You are going to replace the part within the quotation marks with your curve. Just be sure to use the same syntax. It begins and ends with quotes. The number pairs are input;output separated by a space. It's a semi-colon NOT a colon. This is important. Then change the CURVE_NAME to reflect that this is a new curve, and save the file using the curve name as the file name. Run the install command to install the new curve, print another 21-step using it, print the new neg in the darkroom, read the steps to verify your linearization. 
> 
> This is all assuming you are on a Mac. It's a little different for PC users using the Curve Creator tool, but not much.
> 
> Cheers,
> Keith
> 
> Keith Schreiber
> jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] New Printer, New Problem, P800 and Digital Negatives

2016-11-22 by Keith Schreiber

Hi David,

Yes, 21 pairs (including 0;0 and 100;100). The components of each pair are separated by a semi-colon. The order is always input;output. Each pair is separated from the next by a space. Here is an example:

"0;0 5;10.38 10;15.32 15;19.89 20;23.74 25;27.57 30;31.42 35;35.32 40;39.34 45;43.53 50;47.60 55;51.70 60;55.95 65;60.01 70;63.37 75;66.63 80;69.79 85;73.19 90;77.14 95;82.75 100;100"

Yes, there are decimal places. Yes, they matter. In my spreadsheet, the formula that collects them into a string actually has many more decimal places than are necessary, but since it apparently sees it as text rather than numbers there is nothing I've been able to figure out to shorten the length.

I see you are using a scanner to make your readings. Set one of the eyedroppers in the Ps Info panel to read 8-bit Grayscale and you will then get 0-100 Ink % which is what QTR needs. You probably know to adjust levels so that step 1 is white and step21 is black. You can also create a simulation of your correction curve as an actual Ps curve though you are limited to 15 or 16 points rather than 21. You can choose whether to vary input or output. Do you use a spreadsheet to calculate your curve? Mine calculates the curve varying input and keeping output constant. I can enter Density reading which are converted to percent, or ignore the density column and enter percent directly. I'll be happy to share it with you, but in all honesty Richard's spreadsheet (link in a previous message) which converts Density to Luminosity (LAB) does a much better job of actually achieving visual linearity. Using density will get you mathematically linearity but that will be visually too dark, at least to my eyes. Both my spreadsheet and Richard's provide the Gray Curve string which you simply copy & paste into the QTR profile. The problem for you as far as using Richard's spreadsheet is that it requires Density readings.

I heard that the QTR site is down because of a migration by the site host and that Roy is out of the country and not able to do anything about it until next week. 

If you go to the Files section of this group on the web, you will find most, if not all, of the documentation that is available on the QTR website. QTR Workflow by Amadou Diallo is particularly helpful and well written, though it is not about digital negatives. 

Here are a few of sites with useful information specifically about using QTR for digital negatives:
http://www.ronreeder.com/qtr-digital-negatives-and-downloads.html
http://www.clayharmon.net/words/downloads
https://jkschreiber.wordpress.com/platinumpalladium-notes/digital-negatives-with-quadtonerip/

I know my article needs some updating, but it covers the basics pretty well. Clay's download page has a lot of useful stuff including a very good article on using QTR for making Diginegs and a script for creating curves. Since you are using a scanner, this might be a good way to go. And Ron literally wrote the book on the subject. 

Cheers,
Keith

Keith Schreiber
jkschreiber.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Nov 21, 2016, at 7:21 PM, David Aimone daimone@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
> 
> Ok, so if I have the concept correct, there will be 21 pairs separated by a semi-colong, one pair for each step.  I’m usually reading numbers from 0-256.  For these, am I reading input and output grayscale percentages 0-100?  Are they in pairs in the order input;output?  The output is read from scanning the print of the 21 step chart; and I assume I use the standard percentages of a 21 step chart for the input value?
> 
> I actually tried to find this information on the quadtonerip site but I think the site is down, it’s not loading in Safari or Chrome.  Yes, I’m on a Mac too.
> 
> David Aimone
> david@aimonephoto.com <mailto:david@...>
> 
> http://www.aimonephoto.com <http://www.aimonephoto.com/>
> 
> 
>> On Nov 21, 2016, at 8:36 PM, Keith Schreiber keith@... <mailto:keith@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> 
>> Aha! That was not clear. Or maybe I just missed it.
>> 
>> In the profile that I posted, or better yet in the text file that you made with it, find the following line:
>> 
>> GRAY_CURVE="0;0 100;100"
>> 
>> You are going to replace the part within the quotation marks with your curve. Just be sure to use the same syntax. It begins and ends with quotes. The number pairs are input;output separated by a space. It's a semi-colon NOT a colon. This is important. Then change the CURVE_NAME to reflect that this is a new curve, and save the file using the curve name as the file name. Run the install command to install the new curve, print another 21-step using it, print the new neg in the darkroom, read the steps to verify your linearization. 
>> 
>> This is all assuming you are on a Mac. It's a little different for PC users using the Curve Creator tool, but not much.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Keith
>> 
>> Keith Schreiber
>> jkschreiber.com <http://jkschreiber.com/>
>> 
> 
> 
>

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