Yahoo Groups archive

QTR-Quadtone RIP

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 23:12 UTC

Thread

BW printer pick help request

BW printer pick help request

2018-06-12 by roscoetuff@...

I’m working on picking a B&W only printer. Looking to run down an option on an Epson 3880 next week the owner insists has never been used. I doubt there is a way to tell... outside of buying it new long ago, but if you have a secret, let me know.


That’s a 17 inch option. But the cist of failure would be cartridges, etc and not cheap.


I’ve been using a P809 for color and ABW B&W, but conversion to B&W only risks Epson’s determined efforts to use firmware to disable the work around replacement board have convinced me this is probably not a good option, and yes, my firmware updated in May. . Buying another P800 could run the same risk. So of the new options, P600 or maybe P400 looks the best. This puts you in the 13 inch size, but you still get at least 8 inks. I am assuming there is a good enough case for Cone’s (or anyone else’s) inks that the more channels, the greater the refinement. So more is good.


What I am wondering is whether folks with more experience can spot a flaw in my thinking,or suggest the best way to gauge the 3880, or whatever you want to suggest here or directly off line (my username + Gmail.com).


Appreciate all and any help. thanks!

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request

2018-06-13 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

Tell them to send you a picture of the ink inlets inside of the ink bay. If they are clean than there has never been cartridges in there. If there are cartridges in the printer it has been used . . .

-Walker


> On Jun 12, 2018, at 6:02 PM, roscoetuff@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> but if you have a secret, let me know.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request

2018-06-13 by James W. Mersereau

walker: thanks for that. do you guys still consider the 3800/3880 the standard (re: printer selection on the piezography website) or have you folks moved on to the SC line(P400, P600 and/or P800) in terms of everyday type printers that get use infrequently ( couple of days a week or month)?

to wit my P800 is very much happier with daily use!

thanks again

Sent from my iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:21 AM, 'forums@...' forums@walkerblackwell.com [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Tell them to send you a picture of the ink inlets inside of the ink bay. If they are clean than there has never been cartridges in there. If there are cartridges in the printer it has been used . . .
> 
> -Walker
> 
> > On Jun 12, 2018, at 6:02 PM, roscoetuff@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > 
> > but if you have a secret, let me know.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request

2018-06-13 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

Actually we consider these printers about equal. P800 may have a leg up in terms of quality (and parts availability) but they are essentially the same printer internally.

The big caveat with the P800 is Epson’s robust and ongoing effort to lock out their customers from using third party ink . . .

Best,
Walker



> On Jun 13, 2018, at 9:18 AM, 'James W. Mersereau' roscoetuff@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> walker: thanks for that. do you guys still consider the 3800/3880 the standard (re: printer selection on the piezography website) or have you folks moved on to the SC line(P400, P600 and/or P800) in terms of everyday type printers that get use infrequently ( couple of days a week or month)?
> 
> 
> to wit my P800 is very much happier with daily use!
> 
> thanks again
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 8:21 AM, 'forums@walkerblackwell.com <mailto:forums@...>' forums@... <mailto:forums@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Tell them to send you a picture of the ink inlets inside of the ink bay. If they are clean than there has never been cartridges in there. If there are cartridges in the printer it has been used . . .
>> 
>> -Walker
>> 
>> > On Jun 12, 2018, at 6:02 PM, roscoetuff@... <mailto:roscoetuff@...> [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com <mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > but if you have a secret, let me know.
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request

2018-06-13 by Brubaker family

Recent info on the internet seems to indicate that Epson has recently started moving the firmware problem down to the P600 and P400.

3880 "Never been used." does he mean never initialized (ink carts installed) or ink carts installed and just not used to print much?

 
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/12/18, roscoetuff@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request
 To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2018, 6:02 PM
 
 
  
 
 
 
   
 
 
     
       
       
       I’m working on picking a B&W
 only printer. Looking to run down an option on an Epson 3880
 next week the owner insists has never been used. I doubt
 there is a way to tell... outside of buying it new long ago,
 but if you have a secret, let me
 know.
 That’s a 17 inch option.
 But the cist of failure would be cartridges, etc and not
 cheap. 
 I’ve been using a P809
 for color and ABW B&W, but conversion to B&W only
 risks Epson’s determined efforts to use firmware to
 disable the work around replacement board have convinced me
 this is probably not a good option, and yes, my firmware
 updated in May. . Buying another P800 could run the same
 risk. So of the new options, P600 or maybe P400 looks the
 best. This puts you in the 13 inch size, but you still get
 at least 8 inks. I am assuming there is a good enough case
 for Cone’s (or anyone else’s) inks that the more
 channels, the greater the refinement. So more is
 good. 
 What I am wondering is
 whether folks with more experience can spot a flaw in my
 thinking,or suggest the best way to gauge the 3880, or
 whatever you want to suggest here or directly off line (my
 username + Gmail.com).
 Appreciate all and any
 help. thanks!
 
     
      
 
     
     
 
 
 
 #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906 --

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request

2018-06-13 by James W. Mersereau

Implication: i think that’s right, though i’m skeptical. received as a gift he fid not use, but before that, and in what shape it was given, who knows. i’ve seen refurbished 1430’s on Epson for $200, and this guy is asking$200 for a 3880. least i can do is look.

more germane is what printers new folks like me wanting to do B&W with 5+ inks should be looking for? Sure wouldn’t be so hard if Epson would play ball, but they seem sadly determined to ruin the game. 

thanks for your interest in helping to sort this out!

Sent from my iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> On Jun 13, 2018, at 12:02 PM, Brubaker family brubaker_family@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Recent info on the internet seems to indicate that Epson has recently started moving the firmware problem down to the P600 and P400.
> 
> 3880 "Never been used." does he mean never initialized (ink carts installed) or ink carts installed and just not used to print much?
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 6/12/18, roscoetuff@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2018, 6:02 PM
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I’m working on picking a B&W
> only printer. Looking to run down an option on an Epson 3880
> next week the owner insists has never been used. I doubt
> there is a way to tell... outside of buying it new long ago,
> but if you have a secret, let me
> know.
> That’s a 17 inch option.
> But the cist of failure would be cartridges, etc and not
> cheap. 
> I’ve been using a P809
> for color and ABW B&W, but conversion to B&W only
> risks Epson’s determined efforts to use firmware to
> disable the work around replacement board have convinced me
> this is probably not a good option, and yes, my firmware
> updated in May. . Buying another P800 could run the same
> risk. So of the new options, P600 or maybe P400 looks the
> best. This puts you in the 13 inch size, but you still get
> at least 8 inks. I am assuming there is a good enough case
> for Cone’s (or anyone else’s) inks that the more
> channels, the greater the refinement. So more is
> good. 
> What I am wondering is
> whether folks with more experience can spot a flaw in my
> thinking,or suggest the best way to gauge the 3880, or
> whatever you want to suggest here or directly off line (my
> username + Gmail.com).
> Appreciate all and any
> help. thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906 --
> #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp {
> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px
> 0;padding:0 10px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp hr {
> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp #yiv5018470906hd {
> color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
> 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp #yiv5018470906ads {
> margin-bottom:10px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp .yiv5018470906ad {
> padding:0 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp .yiv5018470906ad p {
> margin:0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mkp .yiv5018470906ad a {
> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv5018470906ygrp-lc {
> font-family:Arial;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv5018470906ygrp-lc #yiv5018470906hd {
> margin:10px
> 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-sponsor
> #yiv5018470906ygrp-lc .yiv5018470906ad {
> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906actions {
> font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906activity {
> background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906activity span {
> font-weight:700;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906activity span:first-child {
> text-transform:uppercase;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906activity span a {
> color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906activity span span {
> color:#ff7900;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906activity span
> .yiv5018470906underline {
> text-decoration:underline;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906attach {
> clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px
> 0;width:400px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906attach div a {
> text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906attach img {
> border:none;padding-right:5px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906attach label {
> display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906attach label a {
> text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 blockquote {
> margin:0 0 0 4px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906bold {
> font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906bold a {
> text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 dd.yiv5018470906last p a {
> font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 dd.yiv5018470906last p span {
> margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 dd.yiv5018470906last p
> span.yiv5018470906yshortcuts {
> margin-right:0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906attach-table div div a {
> text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906attach-table {
> width:400px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906file-title a, #yiv5018470906
> div.yiv5018470906file-title a:active, #yiv5018470906
> div.yiv5018470906file-title a:hover, #yiv5018470906
> div.yiv5018470906file-title a:visited {
> text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906photo-title a,
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906photo-title a:active,
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906photo-title a:hover,
> #yiv5018470906 div.yiv5018470906photo-title a:visited {
> text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 div#yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg
> #yiv5018470906ygrp-msg p a span.yiv5018470906yshortcuts {
> font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906green {
> color:#628c2a;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906MsoNormal {
> margin:0 0 0 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 o {
> font-size:0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906photos div {
> float:left;width:72px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906photos div div {
> border:1px solid
> #666666;min-height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906photos div label {
> color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906reco-category {
> font-size:77%;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906reco-desc {
> font-size:77%;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 .yiv5018470906replbq {
> margin:4px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
> margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg {
> font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean,
> sans-serif;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg table {
> font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg select,
> #yiv5018470906 input, #yiv5018470906 textarea {
> font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv5018470906
> code {
> font:115% monospace;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg * {
> line-height:1.22em;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5018470906logo {
> padding-bottom:10px;}
> 
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-msg p a {
> font-family:Verdana;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-msg
> p#yiv5018470906attach-count span {
> color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-reco
> #yiv5018470906reco-head {
> color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-reco {
> margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-sponsor #yiv5018470906ov
> li a {
> font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-sponsor #yiv5018470906ov
> li {
> font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-sponsor #yiv5018470906ov
> ul {
> margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-text {
> font-family:Georgia;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-text p {
> margin:0 0 1em 0;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-text tt {
> font-size:120%;}
> 
> #yiv5018470906 #yiv5018470906ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
> border-right:none !important;
> }
> #yiv5018470906 
> 
>

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-13 by brian_downunda@...

If I had a choice between a 3880 and a P800 for B&W using third party inks, I'd choose the 3880, especially if it really is unused. Partly because of the chip lockout issue, which seems to be a non-issue with the 3880, and partly because of the lack of a proper rear feed on the P800, and being forced to use its cantankerous front-feed path (even though it is still possible to rear feed using the roll feed path).

The factors that would have me consider the P800 would be the greater ease in using roll paper (you have to cut it into sheets on the 3880 and need to use a RIP for long prints), and perhaps the MK / PK switch. That switch is the Achilles' Heel of the 3880, and so far there are no reports of failure that I've seen for the same failure on the P800, although it may be still a bit too early to be sure. If the 3880 really is unused, then you've probably got several years before this starts to become a risk.

Of all the printers that you listed, I'd choose the P400, because these carts-on-head printers ars easier and cheaper to maintain, hibernate, and switch inksets, provided that you can settle for 13" rather than 17". There have been recent reports of Epson trying to force P400 firmware upgrades on people, so you still need to be alert and wary, but that is the way of the future I fear.

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-14 by roscoetuff@...

Brian

Thank you! Excellent advice. Like I said, I am skeptical about the 3880, but guess walker’s test will ferret that out. I used to read about folks using piezoflush to resurrect dead printers, but maybe those days are gone or those stories over stated.
Also good to hear about the P400. Jon cone seems to have a lot of respect for it.
Longer term, I wonder about our 3rd party ink b&w printing if epson,s gonna freeze us out.

Much to chew on, thanks.

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-15 by roscoetuff@...

Following up, if a 3880 were lightly used, please correct me if i’m wrong, but would getting the equivalent of a CLA (service or “refurbish”) make sense? Did this with a Nikon LS8000 and it now runs like a dream. From what I can tell here, the new scanners are rigged to defeat 3rd party inks which makes an old printer possibly worth the trouble... if either epson or another service can be utilized to put the printer in 1sr class condition. Then that ultimately might prove the best option. Does this sound right?

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-15 by jeff.grant@...

The black ink exchange on the 3880 is its achilles heel. It needs to be exercised regularly to avoid failure. If it hasn’t then there’s a good chance that it will fail when you do swap. Having said that, if you use P2, it’s not an issue as you never swap blacks. I am running P2 on a 3880 with a failed ink exchange.

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-16 by roscoetuff@...

Jeff
Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, the plan is to use Piezographic inks to give B&W prints the best presentation I can give them. I see folks seem to favor digital nagatives these days, but that’s not currently on my radar screen. There’s more I can wreak from these negatives than I am getting, and I want to go there. From everything I can find, Jon has developed in this a workflw which delivers a zone-like system for digital printing... something that otherwise seems missing from the contemporary process.

The hardest part for me is finding a point of entry... at the moment.

Someone wrote that there’s a premium for keeping the printers that work with these 3rd party inks in business. Like scanners, once you find yourself in the hunt, you understand. But by necessity, this is a small group. So thanks for the guidance.

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-16 by roscoetuff@...

Jeff
Thanks for the encouragement. Yes, the plan is to use Piezographic inks to give B&W prints the best presentation I can give them. I see folks seem to favor digital nagatives these days, but that’s not currently on my radar screen. There’s more I can wreak from these negatives than I am getting, and I want to go there. From everything I can find, Jon has developed in this a workflw which delivers a zone-like system for digital printing... something that otherwise seems missing from the contemporary process.

The hardest part for me is finding a point of entry... at the moment.

Someone wrote that there’s a premium for keeping the printers that work with these 3rd party inks in business. Like scanners, once you find yourself in the hunt, you understand. But by necessity, this is a small group. So thanks for the guidance.

Re: BW printer pick help request

2018-06-16 by jeff.grant@...

There’s a premium for sure. This is my second round with the 3880. The first was K7 and a lot of drama with sedimentation over time. I then tried an R2000 which never worked reliably so now, with more experience, I’m on P2 on another 3880. The current wisdom at IJM is that regular use is enough to avoid sedimentation. P2 also means no K swaps so that should help, i hope.

My feeling is that the 3880 is an excellent choice as long as you can avoid sedimentation.

Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-18 by roscoetuff@...

Re-reading and reviewing here as well as what others have written on the DigitalBlackandWhite group together with the Community Edition of Piezography, I'm seeing that the Piezo folks as well as some users report that getting a used printer up and running on Piezo is a long shot... or at least not for the faint of heart. Thus, if the 3880 candidate machine I'm looking at actually has been used, then it will most certainly conform to the long shot category. This might NOT be the way folks begin with Piezo... as many seem to start with the smaller printers before stepping up. (Maybe I'm an oddball already printing on 17-inches with a P800?)

But with my P800 already having passed its firmware upgrade and the backdating of this giving me queasy feelings... the option of a B&W committed printer moves on to how to get a point of entry.

I think a lower cost, dependable entry (considered a new printer by Piezo folks) would conform to the suggestion of the P400. Suggestion's been made that the heads are "better" and/or more easily maintained. Jon Cone even suggested it would be better for Digital Negatives. Looks to me that a full set of 2 X 8 cartridges, ink, chip resetter, flush, and so forth PLUS the printer itself could be in the $1,000 ballpark.

The big assumption in all of this is that Epson delivers the printers with a workable firmware rather than the current firmware they want everyone to upgrade to. If this is so, then it seems a good idea. If it's a crapshoot, then it stinks, game over, etc. and I'd be better of gambling on converting my existing P800 by trying to backdate the firmware. Yipes! But yes there is a resource out there and I did download it.

Does anyone know which firmware P400's are being delivered with? If the OLD firmware, how do you assure yourself of defeating an update upon first and EVERY use? THere must be some app within the Epson firmware you could move to another directory or some "secure" way to protect yourself.


Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-18 by fotophil@...

It sure would be nice that Epson produced the P800 with a "workable" firmware but I am not aware of Epson going in that direction for printers sold here in the US. Are you asking the "workable" firmware that is sold with European Epson P800 could be made to work on US market printers?

Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-18 by roscoetuff@...

Agree in principle, but I would call that more than nice... something more like "Excellent!" What I meant by "nice" was simply firmware that was friendly enough at the time of purchase to work with the work arounds devised by Jon Cone and others - and not the more current firmware that seems intent on defeating any and all chip resetting - either by the reset clips or the expansion PC board. Without this, then resurrecting old printers is the only way to pursue the techniques of 6, 7 and 8 B&W inks.

If Epson begins selling their new printers with the Cone-defeating firmware already installed, then no new printers will work. Who knows, that could be the ultimate plan. Meantime, seems as though if the manufacture is generic and only US machines get this firmware, then Epson might at least for a time be comfortable having this an upgrade done on installation post-purchase. But if instead, the defeating-firmware is loaded for US machines prior to purchase, then we're toast.

Like I said, at that point, a 3880 (or some other old machine) becomes the only option. That's "not nice".


Re: BW printer pick help request - Maintenance

2018-06-18 by roscoetuff@...

Looks to me as though neither the P400 nor P600 have a replaceable waste ink tank like the P800 does. Not sure what this means exactly in terms of YMMV relative to usage. Will the P400 r P600 top up and refuse to work at some point? while a P800 would simply request a new maintenance tank? Anyone know?

Paper handling is the 2nd question. I've found the P800 pretty robust. I've used the top loader pretty much for everything until just recently when it began requesting that I use the front "art paper" (17 X 22 fine art matte paper) loader (when using QuadtoneRIP). There are some minor alignment possibilities in running a piece of paper through twice, but not of great significance. Works fine so far.

By contrast I've seen some negatives on the P400 for paper handling. Not a whole lot of info on either the P400 or P600 printers btw, so I hope that's not telling me something (i.e. no one's using these). I think Jon Cone's suggested they were about to run a workshop using the P400's so maybe that will provide a decent "lab".Any information here would be helpful. Thanks!

Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-18 by fotophil@...

I can't imagine that Epson is happy with the circuit board design by Jon and so they well attempt to modify future P800 units to defeat the circuit and maybe even redesign the drivers for the existing P800. It is war time in the ink jet printer busuness!

Re: [QuadtoneRIP] BW printer pick help request - Maintenance

2018-06-18 by forums@walkerblackwell.com

You can just direct the ink into a bottle and reset the waste pad counter on these printers just like all small format printers.

Best,
Walker

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:45 AM, roscoetuff@... [QuadtoneRIP] <QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Looks to me as though neither the P400 nor P600 have a replaceable waste ink tank like the P800 does. Not sure what this means exactly in terms of YMMV relative to usage



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-19 by jon@...

The P400s just like the P600 is shipped with firmware that gives you a choice. And you currently can not download a firmware that will lock out choices.

But, and this is where you really need to pay attention to what you read on screen, you can voluntarily accept an update that can lock out your choice of inks (chips really). The messages that pop up offering them seem encouraging. They're is no reason ever to update a printer that you are considering to use for your choice of inks.

So, just never opt-in to any firmware updates or any updates whether they say firmware or not.

When you install Epson software for the first time a tendency to accept screens without really reading can occur - and that is where you may sign up to get firmware updates pushed to you. Just do not do anything like that. If you need Epson software, download the driver and utilities separately. Do not download the Combo package because it installs an updater. The updater will install things pushed to you.

The only way you can knock out your choice on these printers is to do it yourself usually by not reading the windows that you click when they popup because they're annoying and annoying windows are bothersome and sometimes not worth reading. Stay vigilant! :)

best,

Jon Cone


Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-19 by roscoetuff@...

Jon and Walker:

I think this is very useful information. Thanks for your help. The features between the P400 and P600 seem very, very close. However, the P600 offers 1 more ink cartridge, but costs more to maintain (ink cartridges + piezoflush fluid vs. fluid alone for the P400) and by heft, is a studier machine. Don't know if there's a difference in the reliability of paper handling between the two or not, but I've worried the P400 might be a bit lightweight for that heavier matte papers I tend to like... but that may be unfair.

Stacked up side by side, the difference to 1st Piezo use looks to run (with current rebates from Epson) about $ 300 or $400 depending on whether or not you dupe the P600 methodology for cleaning the P400. This assumes you already have QuadtoneRIP and don't do the Curve Software - these throw in another $200 together. Add a box of 50 sheets of Cone paper at $70, and if I'm at all close, I come up with roughly $1,150 for the P400 and $1,550 for the P600 for all-in purchase to first print cost. Does this sound close?

If so, then the question is whether one extra cartridge of ink is worth the difference? Fairly, if you were to maintain the P400 the same way with piezoflush loaded cartridges 'cause it'd be a better idea, this adds more to the P400 cost and narrows the difference.While I'm not sure this would make sense or actually add to the reliability, if it was a "better" idea, then the P600 becomes a clear winner.

For me, the consideration of moving down to a smaller printer for 3rd party inks - specifically Piezography means that 13 X 19 or whatever length has to be able to prove itself as sufficient as a "proof" that could mean you've got it 95% or better "right" for printing your could print larger (if needed) for a final image with a 3rd party. My current use is mostly B&W coming off a square negative scanned on a Nikon LS8000... which dates my approach, yes, but suits my current needs.

Thanks again. I'm glad your system is out there, and look to go down this road... taking steps to get started before the end of the month.


Re: BW printer pick help request - Summing UP

2018-06-20 by jon@...

With the P400 and smallish 15mm cartridges you would not need to run a set of flush carts. You just install the PiezoPro filled carts and run two head cleans.

The P600 will have to be flushed out.

The P400 can use a set of 60ml bottles and get 4 fills from them. The P600 could as well... and get two charges of ink.

The P400 you would need to swap two cartridges to go between MK and PK. The P600 performs black ink changes.

Both do 13" wide.

I think that the P400 PiezoPro system can be had for a set of $240 inks:

and a set of refillable $46 cartridges:

The QTR software is $50, PrintTool is required if you are on OSX.

Piezography Professional Edition Toolset is not a requirement, but it sure is an awesome set of tools that do quite a bit.

Certainly - your entry into the P400 is cost of printer and only $286 for the Piezography Pro system. With the current $100 rebate from Epson the printer is only $500. So I see $786 getting you into the Pro system... plus QTR and Print Tool if you do not currently own them.

The P600 adds quite a bit more in terms of requiring to flush out the color inks from the ink line, ink exchager, etc.. and that requires a set of carts...

You're not giving up much by having to swap the PK and MK carts when you wish to print glossy or matte.

Hope that makes sense....

Best,

Jon

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.