QTR-Quadtone RIP

Hello, Group

I own ImagePrint, but have been testing qtr on ep enh matte for a few 
months, and have found it to be superior in rendering shadow detail.  I 
also like the greater latitude it provides for toning.  One question:  
I just d/l the latest version, and was pleased to find the profiles for 
semi gloss paper. So I ran a print on ep premium luster with the 
permajet oyster curves, and was pleased to get a fairly nice print with 
no metamerism or crossover, and only minimal bronzing in some of the 
grey.  I wonder if anyone is getting great prints on luster or gloss 
paper, without any bronzing or posterizing, and if so, what 
paper/curves/paper settings you are using?

Thanks

Jack

Jack, I'm glad you posted this thread. I've been totally frustrated 
printing on Epson Luster/Semi-Gloss papers using the QTR. My prints 
have dark brown, muddy look to them. I'm using a 2200 with UC inks.
But now I'm going to try other curves and see what I get.


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "johnmuir.geo" 
<johnmuir.geo@y...> wrote:
> 
> Hello, Group
> 
> I own ImagePrint, but have been testing qtr on ep enh matte for a 
few 
> months, and have found it to be superior in rendering shadow 
detail.  I 
> also like the greater latitude it provides for toning.  One 
question:  
> I just d/l the latest version, and was pleased to find the 
profiles for 
> semi gloss paper. So I ran a print on ep premium luster with the 
> permajet oyster curves, and was pleased to get a fairly nice print 
with 
> no metamerism or crossover, and only minimal bronzing in some of 
the 
> grey.  I wonder if anyone is getting great prints on luster or 
gloss 

> paper, without any bronzing or posterizing, and if so, what 
> paper/curves/paper settings you are using?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jack

> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "johnmuir.geo" 
> <johnmuir.geo@y...> wrote:
> > 
 So I ran a print on ep premium luster with the 
> > permajet oyster curves, and was pleased to get a fairly nice print 
> with 
> > no metamerism or crossover, and only minimal bronzing in some of 
> the 
> > grey.  

I posted this to the other group, but probably should have posted it 
here...I just picked permajet oyster at random and ran a print on 
Epson premium glossy, and got a pretty neurtral print.  No hint of 
brown, although something seemed just a wee bit odd about it, and I 
haven't gone back yet to mess with it (glossy is just terrible paper.  
I'll bet the "oddness" wouldn't be there on semi-gloss of luster).

After reading your reply to Andy's post, I thought I'd try the same 
experiment with my 2200. I printed a b&w image on epson semi-gloss 
using the UC-pk Permajet Oyster cool curve and....you're right....no 
hint of brown, a very neutral print indeed. A bit of bronzing but 
nothing too serious. Which begs the question about the QTR....why do 
my prints turn out brown using the semi-gloss curve but print out 
quite beautifully in fact with the...what's it called again?...the 
Permajet Oyster curve? I just don't understand this.


--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...> wrote:
> Andy, I can't remember what printer---2200?
> 
> Diane
> 
>   I posted this to the other group, but probably should have posted 
it 
>   here...I just picked permajet oyster at random and ran a print on 
>   Epson premium glossy, and got a pretty neurtral print.  No hint of 
>   brown, although something seemed just a wee bit odd about it, and 
I 
>   haven't gone back yet to mess with it (glossy is just terrible 
paper.  
>   I'll bet the "oddness" wouldn't be there on semi-gloss of luster).

Steve,

Each curve is calibrated to a specific paper printed
on a single printer as interpreted by the curves
creator. Since each paper type is different and each
printer (even of the same type) is different and
everyone's eye is different results can be vary widely
even when everyone thinks they are doing the same
thing. When you use a curve on a paper different from
what it was created for there is a big chance you will
not get what you expect. 

If this were not the case why are there so many
curves? If every paper and ink set combo worked the
same and every photographer's notion of the correct
print color was the same there would only be the need
for one curve. (Or none Epson might even be able to do
this without a rip).

But this fortunately or unfortunately is not the case.


Each paper is different in base color and how it takes
ink. It will react differently with different inks.
These differences are what will allow personal
expression. This is what separates a fine print from a
page of text. Both pages just contain some dots. Your
Epson can do both. Isn't it the artist that makes the
difference? 

Making fine digital prints is not an exact science
(despite all the talk of spectrophotometers). Tools
can help in some of the more technical areas like
curve creation, but they are no substitute for
learning what is available with the tool as it comes. 

Test all available curves on the papers you use. Some
people print step wedges some use a single reference
image sized small enough that it fits several times on
the page. Only by knowing what you have will help you
understand what you need. 

Guy

 
--- SteveZ <blizzie12@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> After reading your reply to Andy's post, I thought
> I'd try the same 
> experiment with my 2200. I printed a b&w image on
> epson semi-gloss 
> using the UC-pk Permajet Oyster cool curve
> and....you're right....no 
> hint of brown, a very neutral print indeed. A bit of
> bronzing but 
> nothing too serious. Which begs the question about
> the QTR....why do 
> my prints turn out brown using the semi-gloss curve
> but print out 
> quite beautifully in fact with the...what's it
> called again?...the 
> Permajet Oyster curve? I just don't understand this.
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields"
> <picnic@c...> wrote:
> > Andy, I can't remember what printer---2200?
> > 
> > Diane
> > 
> >   I posted this to the other group, but probably
> should have posted 
> it 
> >   here...I just picked permajet oyster at random
> and ran a print on 
> >   Epson premium glossy, and got a pretty neurtral
> print.  No hint of 
> >   brown, although something seemed just a wee bit
> odd about it, and 
> I 
> >   haven't gone back yet to mess with it (glossy is
> just terrible 
> paper.  
> >   I'll bet the "oddness" wouldn't be there on
> semi-gloss of luster).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Steve

Have you tried using the Curve Creator to look at the two curves in
question? The curve for Premium semigloss has ink limit of 12 and 13 for LC
and LM respectively. The corresponding limits for Permajet Oyster are 29 and
30. The LC/LM are used to cool the warmth of the LK. Perhaps there are not
enough of those inks in the PSG cool curves for your (or others') taste. You
could try modifying the PSG curve to suit your taste. 

Tom Moore

> -----Original Message-----
> From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of SteveZ
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:47 PM
> To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] To Diane Re: gossy or luster prints
> 
> 
> 
> After reading your reply to Andy's post, I thought I'd try the same
> experiment with my 2200. I printed a b&w image on epson semi-gloss
> using the UC-pk Permajet Oyster cool curve and....you're right....no
> hint of brown, a very neutral print indeed. A bit of bronzing but
> nothing too serious. Which begs the question about the QTR....why do
> my prints turn out brown using the semi-gloss curve but print out
> quite beautifully in fact with the...what's it called again?...the
> Permajet Oyster curve? I just don't understand this.
> 
> 
> --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...> wrote:
> > Andy, I can't remember what printer---2200?
> >
> > Diane
> >
> >   I posted this to the other group, but probably should have posted
> it
> >   here...I just picked permajet oyster at random and ran a print on
> >   Epson premium glossy, and got a pretty neurtral print.  No hint of
> >   brown, although something seemed just a wee bit odd about it, and
> I
> >   haven't gone back yet to mess with it (glossy is just terrible
> paper.
> >   I'll bet the "oddness" wouldn't be there on semi-gloss of luster).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Yes, I'm sorry.  IT is the 2200.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...> wrote:

> Andy, I can't remember what printer---2200?
> 
> Diane
>

No Tom, I haven't tried creating custom curves as yet, but it's 
something I'm definately going to try doing in the very near future 
and I'll probably start with EPSG.

--- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Moore" <r.t.moore@r...> 
wrote:
> Steve
> 
> Have you tried using the Curve Creator to look at the two curves in
> question? The curve for Premium semigloss has ink limit of 12 and 
13 for LC
> and LM respectively. The corresponding limits for Permajet Oyster 
are 29 and
> 30. The LC/LM are used to cool the warmth of the LK. Perhaps there 
are not
> enough of those inks in the PSG cool curves for your (or others') 
taste. You
> could try modifying the PSG curve to suit your taste. 
> 
> Tom Moore
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf Of SteveZ
> > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 7:47 PM
> > To: QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [QuadtoneRIP] To Diane Re: gossy or luster prints
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > After reading your reply to Andy's post, I thought I'd try the 
same
> > experiment with my 2200. I printed a b&w image on epson semi-
gloss
> > using the UC-pk Permajet Oyster cool curve and....you're 
right....no
> > hint of brown, a very neutral print indeed. A bit of bronzing but
> > nothing too serious. Which begs the question about the 
QTR....why do
> > my prints turn out brown using the semi-gloss curve but print out
> > quite beautifully in fact with the...what's it called 
again?...the
> > Permajet Oyster curve? I just don't understand this.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In QuadtoneRIP@yahoogroups.com, "Diane Fields" <picnic@c...> 
wrote:
> > > Andy, I can't remember what printer---2200?
> > >
> > > Diane
> > >
> > >   I posted this to the other group, but probably should have 
posted
> > it
> > >   here...I just picked permajet oyster at random and ran a 
print on
> > >   Epson premium glossy, and got a pretty neurtral print.  No 
hint of
> > >   brown, although something seemed just a wee bit odd about 
it, and
> > I
> > >   haven't gone back yet to mess with it (glossy is just 
terrible
> > paper.
> > >   I'll bet the "oddness" wouldn't be there on semi-gloss of 
luster).

> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >